Overland Solar Tracking System

roboteos

New member
Hello Everyone!

I am looking for some feedback on a new solar tracking system I have designed and built for my Sprinter van. The idea has been discussed before, but to my knowledge this is the first system ever built that will track the sun in 2 axis automatically, and fold down flat to the roof of a vehicle during travel. I am looking for some feedback on system sizing, energy needs during summer and winter, overall impression, and questions or concerns you might have about a system like this on your overland rig.

Summarizing the system, 2 200W panels are mounted on a hub that can be raised/lowered, and tilted in any direction via 3 linear actuators to minimize the incident angle of solar rays on the panels, and increase the energy output of the system. Using a GPS system, the vehicle orientation is determined, and the optimal angle to tilt the panels is automatically actuated, adjusted every 15 minutes or so to track the sun. When the vehicle is moving, the system folds down flat to the roof adding about 6" of height. The daily benefit depends heavily on the time of year and location. As many of you know, winter time solar energy is hard to come by, as days are short, and the sun is much lower in the sky reducing the output of panels mounted flat on the roof. Here is a summary of the energy production in the winter and summer at San Francisco on a clear sky day:

SystemSummer SolsticeWinter Solstice
400W Flat Array3.22 kWh1.01 kWh
400W 2 Axis Tracking System4.14 kWh (+30%)1.98 kWh (+96%)


power_plots.png


In each case, the tracking system adds about 1kWh of energy, and shows the dramatic difference the time of year makes to the output of solar. So how do these numbers compare with your experience? Do you notice a big drop off in energy during the winter for those of you using your rigs year round? How much of an impact is an extra 1 kWh or doubling the output of your system in the winter time, and similarly what would going from 3-4kWh in the winter time mean for the use of your camper?

For those of you further north (Seattle for example), the situation in winter is even worse, with a 400W array making only 0.56kWh of energy in the winter. In this location the tracker would make 1.47kWh (still adding ~1kWh) or 2.6X.

Does this type of increase move the needle in terms of what you can run completely off solar, how long you can plan to go off-grid, or reduce the space taken up by solar panels on the roof for other things? How much energy would you need to be fully off-grid with solar year round (please share your vehicle type and basic info if you are willing to share)?

Here is a video showing the tracking system in action!

Disclaimer, yes this is a product I have developed as part of my business, but no I am not trying to sell it here. I would like this thread to focus on the utility of this type of system in overlanding in the eyes of this knowledgeable community. Thanks in advance for your input!
 
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Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
I'd bet this would be something that those piloting $500,000.00 and up rigs bite on, maybe for a few full timers that have smaller systems that need to be optimized for a more reliable system.

Very few here will have a system that warrants a tracking system.

Where did you get your numbers to make those claims?

An automatic system would be nice, however, if collecting sunshine becomes critical, most will get off their lazy ends and move-tilt the panels during the day, after all, they can take off at night.

My system is simple, a bluetti 200P with 700 watts of panels, 400 watt panels are fixed 300 flexible and portable. Goal is to run 7,000 btu AC, 8 hours each day, or as needed.
 

WanderingBison

Active member
Very interesting idea!

I would have to seriously consider the value of this system, read added cost vs flat mounted panels vs the return. The quality of your numbers and actual users' experiences would be critical.

Then, the match would have to be how much of a premium your system is vs a ground panel portable that would be lighter, offer supplemental capacity and could be placed away from tree cover (which is still a challenge for your system).

As a full-time nomad, low winter sun is a challenge I am always trying to address.

The Nerd in me likes it, but I would need to do my homework to justify the complexity and expense.

I hope that helps!
 

plh

Explorer
Hello Everyone!

I am looking for some feedback on a new solar tracking system I have designed and built for my Sprinter van. The idea has been discussed before, but to my knowledge this is the first system ever built that will track the sun in 2 axis automatically, and fold down flat to the roof of a vehicle during travel. I am looking for some feedback on system sizing, energy needs during summer and winter, overall impression, and questions or concerns you might have about a system like this on your overland rig.

Summarizing the system, 2 200W panels are mounted on a hub that can be raised/lowered, and tilted in any direction via 3 linear actuators to minimize the incident angle of solar rays on the panels, and increase the energy output of the system. Using a GPS system, the vehicle orientation is determined, and the optimal angle to tilt the panels is automatically actuated, adjusted every 15 minutes or so to track the sun. When the vehicle is moving, the system folds down flat to the roof adding about 6" of height. The daily benefit depends heavily on the time of year and location. As many of you know, winter time solar energy is hard to come by, as days are short, and the sun is much lower in the sky reducing the output of panels mounted flat on the roof. Here is a summary of the energy production in the winter and summer at San Francisco on a clear sky day:

SystemSummer SolsticeWinter Solstice
400W Flat Array3.22 kWh1.01 kWh
400W 2 Axis Tracking System4.14 kWh (+30%)1.98 kWh (+96%)


View attachment 819799


In each case, the tracking system adds about 1kWh of energy, and shows the dramatic difference the time of year makes to the output of solar. So how do these numbers compare with your experience? Do you notice a big drop off in energy during the winter for those of you using your rigs year round? How much of an impact is an extra 1 kWh or doubling the output of your system in the winter time, and similarly what would going from 3-4kWh in the winter time mean for the use of your camper?

For those of you further north (Seattle for example), the situation in winter is even worse, with a 400W array making only 0.56kWh of energy in the winter. In this location the tracker would make 1.47kWh (still adding ~1kWh) or 2.6X.

Does this type of increase move the needle in terms of what you can run completely off solar, how long you can plan to go off-grid, or reduce the space taken up by solar panels on the roof for other things? How much energy would you need to be fully off-grid with solar year round (please share your vehicle type and basic info if you are willing to share)?

Here is a video showing the tracking system in action!

Disclaimer, yes this is a product I have developed as part of my business, but no I am not trying to sell it here. I would like this thread to focus on the utility of this type of system in overlanding in the eyes of this knowledgeable community. Thanks in advance for your input!
pretty darned cool, but price point is going to need to be less than the cost of 400 watts of panels currently under $250.
 

roboteos

New member
I'd bet this would be something that those piloting $500,000.00 and up rigs bite on, maybe for a few full timers that have smaller systems that need to be optimized for a more reliable system.

Very few here will have a system that warrants a tracking system.

Where did you get your numbers to make those claims?

An automatic system would be nice, however, if collecting sunshine becomes critical, most will get off their lazy ends and move-tilt the panels during the day, after all, they can take off at night.

My system is simple, a bluetti 200P with 700 watts of panels, 400 watt panels are fixed 300 flexible and portable. Goal is to run 7,000 btu AC, 8 hours each day, or as needed.
@Ozarker can you share how much energy it takes to run your AC system over a day?

The numbers are from modelling each system using a well established Python library, pvlib. I have cross checked these predictions against other well known sources like PVWatts from NREL. I have also been able to compare actual test data with the theoretical model, and have gotten really good correlation. The plot below is measured solar power (after charge controller) vs predicted model for both the tracking system and a flat panel. Even with some interruptions, the system made nearly exactly the energy the model predicted over the day (Southern California, January 4th 2024).

DataComparison.png

For sure the system would be a premium option geared toward higher end rigs. To my knowledge, it would be the highest efficiency solar system for vehicles by area by a very wide margin. I see particularly in the Sprinter RV community, there seems to be a challenge running all the accessories with the space available for solar, and curious to hear about it from overlander perspective.

Keep the feedback coming, thanks!
 
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Shawn686

Observer
What is going to kill this product is having to have 185lbs strapped to your roof. You can get a lot of solar panels for 185lbs. Especially for "overland", this will be hell on your CG off road, even more so on an already tall van

Shawn
 

roboteos

New member
What is going to kill this product is having to have 185lbs strapped to your roof. You can get a lot of solar panels for 185lbs. Especially for "overland", this will be hell on your CG off road, even more so on an already tall van

Shawn

Thanks for your feedback! The weight is a bit misleading right now, that is the weight of our prototype system, and there is a lot of room for optimization. Plus most of it is in the base , and with roof rack integration, which we are working on, would make the increase over a common safari style rack similar to glass fronted panels.
Very interesting idea!

I would have to seriously consider the value of this system, read added cost vs flat mounted panels vs the return. The quality of your numbers and actual users' experiences would be critical.

Then, the match would have to be how much of a premium your system is vs a ground panel portable that would be lighter, offer supplemental capacity and could be placed away from tree cover (which is still a challenge for your system).

As a full-time nomad, low winter sun is a challenge I am always trying to address.

The Nerd in me likes it, but I would need to do my homework to justify the complexity and expense.

I hope that helps!

@WanderingBison do you mind sharing your current solar setup, rough location, and energy demands? Fully agree on all your points, thanks!
 

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Well, my AC is currently buried in the garage, so, no, off hand I don't know what the power requirement is, just that my 200p unit will start it and run it, after that it depends.

I might suggest you take your product to the yachting world where weight may not be as critical. I didn't see the weight initially and that is an issue, that's too much to go on my trailer roof.
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
@roboteos super interesting. I noticed however that your video doesn't look like the panels are held perpendicular to the sun. At the sunset images, they were highly angled, like 45 degrees to incident sun angle. Even at highest sun elevation, they did not look fully perpendicular. It appeared to be because the low side actuators had to get panel high enough to clear the mount, and high side didn't extend enough to counter that.

Can you comment on this? It would be bad to pay for something that was supposed to give best tracking angle, and end up with only a 45 degree best angle...
ThxScreenshot_20240215_093242_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20240215_093130_Samsung Internet.jpgScreenshot_20240215_093150_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
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roboteos

New member
Well, my AC is currently buried in the garage, so, no, off hand I don't know what the power requirement is, just that my 200p unit will start it and run it, after that it depends.

I might suggest you take your product to the yachting world where weight may not be as critical. I didn't see the weight initially and that is an issue, that's too much to go on my trailer roof.

No problem, thanks for your replies. For trailers and other applications that need something lighter weight, we have a single axis tracking system as well. We use the same panels shown here, which are 4.5kg, and thanks to the much simpler mechanism, a 400W system would be ~17kg (2 Zamp 190W panels are 22kg for reference). The benefits of the single axis system in terms of energy gain are still significant (can be 2X in winter time), but the downside is you have to be pointed in a specific orientation to get the benefits. Our LCD screen would tell you the optimal angle to park to get the most energy, and the panels would still be tilted to minimize the incident angle as much as possible no matter how you are parked. Its is about half the price thanks to the simpler mechanism too.
@roboteos super interesting. I noticed however that your video doesn't look like the panels are held perpendicular to the sun. At the sunset images, they were highly angled, like 45 degrees to incident sun angle. Even at highest sun elevation, they did not look fully perpendicular. It appeared to be because the low side actuators had to get panel high enough to clear the mount, and high side didn't extend enough to counter that.

Can you comment on this? It would be bad to pay for something that was supposed to give best tracking angle, and end up with only a 45 degree best angle...
Thx

Thanks for your comment! Yes you are right that there are limitations to how much we can tilt the panels. The linear actuators can only double (well almost double) in length, and the center of the panel needs to be raised up so the edge of the panel is not hitting the van roof. There are a lot of different factors at play here that determine the max tilt angle, but we have done a few iterations and lots of kinematic analysis and FEA to come up with the current geometry that allows us to tilt the panels up to 40 degrees, be less than 6" in the stowed position, withstand 25mph wind (fun fact, that youtube video was taken on a day with 20mph sustained winds), and fit on the van roof.

Yes, we could capture a little bit more energy if we could tilt more, but 40 degrees max tilt still delivers most of the energy gains possible from tilting panels. There is some diminishing returns, as the power available to you at sunrise/sunset or when the sun is at large zenith angles drops off quickly. Here is the sensitivity of the max tilt angle on the percentage of energy captured compared to a system with no tilting limitations.

1708019004311.png

Fixed flat panels are all the way on the left at 0 degrees max tilt, and shows how much energy is being left on the table by not tilting. Even a little bit of tilting is a substantial improvement. At 40 degrees, we capture 97% of the possible energy in San Francisco in the summer and 89% in the winter. San Francisco is a good benchmark, as its about middle of the country in terms of latitude.

Good eye, and hope this answers your question!
 

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Dave in AZ

Active member
No problem, thanks for your replies. For trailers and other applications that need something lighter weight, we have a single axis tracking system as well. We use the same panels shown here, which are 4.5kg, and thanks to the much simpler mechanism, a 400W system would be ~17kg (2 Zamp 190W panels are 22kg for reference). The benefits of the single axis system in terms of energy gain are still significant (can be 2X in winter time), but the downside is you have to be pointed in a specific orientation to get the benefits. Our LCD screen would tell you the optimal angle to park to get the most energy, and the panels would still be tilted to minimize the incident angle as much as possible no matter how you are parked. Its is about half the price thanks to the simpler mechanism too.


Thanks for your comment! Yes you are right that there are limitations to how much we can tilt the panels. The linear actuators can only double (well almost double) in length, and the center of the panel needs to be raised up so the edge of the panel is not hitting the van roof. There are a lot of different factors at play here that determine the max tilt angle, but we have done a few iterations and lots of kinematic analysis and FEA to come up with the current geometry that allows us to tilt the panels up to 40 degrees, be less than 6" in the stowed position, withstand 25mph wind (fun fact, that youtube video was taken on a day with 20mph sustained winds), and fit on the van roof.

Yes, we could capture a little bit more energy if we could tilt more, but 40 degrees max tilt still delivers most of the energy gains possible from tilting panels. There is some diminishing returns, as the power available to you at sunrise/sunset or when the sun is at large zenith angles drops off quickly. Here is the sensitivity of the max tilt angle on the percentage of energy captured compared to a system with no tilting limitations.

View attachment 819945

Fixed flat panels are all the way on the left at 0 degrees max tilt, and shows how much energy is being left on the table by not tilting. Even a little bit of tilting is a substantial improvement. At 40 degrees, we capture 97% of the possible energy in San Francisco in the summer and 89% in the winter. San Francisco is a good benchmark, as its about middle of the country in terms of latitude.

Good eye, and hope this answers your question!
Excellent info in all responses. Looking better and better...
 

crazysccrmd

Observer
Does the system have an automated stow feature in case of winds? A 25mph wind is not much and in some areas is well within the usual wind spread range during a typical day.
 

roboteos

New member
Yes! We use a simple wind anemometer to automatically stow the panels if the wind gets too high. They would also automatically stow if the vehicle starts moving (forgetting to switch it off), and also automatically stow at sunset, and deploy automatically at sunrise as long as its in the "tracking" mode.

Still need to determine the exact max wind speed, thanks for the comment!
 

roboteos

New member
For anyone in the LA area, we are going to have our tracker on display at the CA Overland and Powersports Show at the Pomona Fairplex this weekend March 16-17. Hope to see some of you there!
 

Pacific Northwest yetti

Expedition Medic
Innovation is always a good thing, and there is probably a market for it I’m sure. And I imagine you will sell them. And kudos for designing a product, and all that goes into that.


For me, or well-designed systems. Extra solar is added to compensate for the loss of being in the shade, or not at optimum angles. Something like 300w on my pop up camper. And have never run out of power for what I need. And then a 30-amp dc/dc for anytime I’m driving. Keeps the fridge cold year round even in the pnw. And I never have to touch it, no moving parts to maintain, lube or break.

However, everyone’s system is different, with varying loads, needs, and even the things like voltage drop in long wire runs. A system with 50amp/hr AGM, is not the same as a 400amp/hr lithium battery bank. With 600w/ solar.


That van for example, has a lot of wasted roof space. I am pretty sure you could get 600+ w/ of the flex panels on the same space.

But, it’s a cool system. And no one else competing for that niche. And a large part of the market is all about gadgets. Still beats moving them by hand. I look forward to seeing the product develop.
 

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