overlander vs rock cralwer

[Comanche Scott]

Would fording creeks and rivers be considered "over watering"?

 

[coop74]

Would fording creeks and rivers be considered "over watering"?

There is rocks &/or land under the water on the creek water... unless your ride floats.

 

[Septu]

where does a really well built overlander end and become a rock crawler?
aside form tents slide stoves refries etc.
my guess is if you can drive it daily long distance thats probably a good start.
I have 315 70 17 on 410 gears jku rubicon with a winch and side steps rails. I wouldn't consider it a rock crawler but I would be afraid to take over the rubicon having done that in a stock tj rubicon.

what are your thoughts
rock crawling I am thinking over 4 inch lift 37s 513 gears

how about you guys

You'd be afraid to take a JKU on 37s over the Rubicon?

Personally for JKs, once you're hitting 35s or bigger I think the rig is more geared towards wheeling then overlanding. I'm not even getting into crawling. Really those are fairly specific setups. Lots of armor (a lot more then what most guys who just wheel run) and the rig really needs articulation, flex and clearance. And this is coming from someone with 35s. I like them... but recognize that they hamper my mileage and thus my range when traveling - especially since I haul my off road trailer.

But really "overlanding" is more a state of mind. Are you and your vehicle self sufficient for a period of time? Yes? Great! Your rig might not be "ideal" but who cares as long as you like it and it gets the job done in a manner that's reasonably comfortable.

 

[Septu]

Tarditi, I think you hit the nail right on the head.

I've had folks who meet me for the first time and find out I'm into serious 4x4 vehicles say "Oh, so you are a rock crawler". And I always say this: I go fourwheeling to get into the backcountry; I don't go into the backcountry just to go fourwheeling. To me that is the difference between the "rock crawler" and the "overlander" (although I prefer the term "backcountry explorer"). I like to take the road less travelled, like the time my wife and I chose to drive Hwy 50 across Nevada while on a trip to California, even though I80 is faster and more convenient. Or going to Moab, UT, via Gateway, CO, over the LaSal mountains, instead of I70.

I enjoy navigating obstacles in the trail, and love the fact that my capable 4x4 vehicle enables me to go to destinations and experience things that few others do. It is too far and/or time consuming to hike to many of the remote places I go, but too rough of a trail for a car or even a stock SUV, and I can still take sufficient gear and supplies to be comfortable on the adventure. Whether it is a VW or a built-up Jeep JK on 37's is irrelevant, it's the spirit of the adventure that makes the difference.

I think there's a huge difference between rock crawling and wheeling. I see rock crawling as going up that rock filled crevice, or down the boulder filled creek for the fun of it. I see wheeling as sometimes just doing a trail to get to the end of it. Sure there's occasionally overlap between the two of these, but I really think there's a difference. One is really a lot more purpose built then the other. I've owned 2 JKUs and yet to have an oil pan cover (however have also replaced 1 oil pan). I wouldn't consider going to Moab or anywhere else if I was intending to play in the rocks without one of these.

 

[unkamonkey]

I think there's a huge difference between rock crawling and wheeling. I see rock crawling as going up that rock filled crevice, or down the boulder filled creek for the fun of it. I see wheeling as sometimes just doing a trail to get to the end of it. Sure there's occasionally overlap between the two of these, but I really think there's a difference. One is really a lot more purpose built then the other. I've owned 2 JKUs and yet to have an oil pan cover (however have also replaced 1 oil pan). I wouldn't consider going to Moab or anywhere else if I was intending to play in the rocks without one of these.

Good reply. I've been doing Moab trails for over 30 years using my 3B with a 1 1/2" lift. It's up to the driver. Some people tried to get me to go up a trail near here and I just turned around when it got too bad. I was out there to chack out what was around, not to rip parts off the Jeep. I did scrape both diffs last time going up to Top of The World and drug the rear crossmember across a few rocks on the way down. Is my Man Card still intact?

 

[toymaster]

Personally for JKs, once you're hitting 35s or bigger I think the rig is more geared towards wheeling then overlanding. I'm not even getting into crawling. Really those are fairly specific setups. Lots of armor (a lot more then what most guys who just wheel run) and the rig really needs articulation, flex and clearance...

But, what if there is a rock in the trail you are going overland on!!?? :safari-rig: I don't want to have to.. :Mechanic: when I go down a rough trail in my ... :truck: to get to my.... :tent: spot. There is no law that says a overland rig has to have tight suspension; it is overLANDING not overROADING.

My personal challenge in building my jeep was to build as much capability as possible in all areas without compromising in the other areas and winding up with a vehicle dedicated for one purpose. Such as being a trailer queen or a on-road vehicle that cannot go up a creek bank without the use of ramps. I like to keep going forward under the drive line's power and not having to winch or use other recovery devices.

I would rather go around an ob-stack-al but sometimes you can't.

 

[codesertrat]

Good reply. I've been doing Moab trails for over 30 years using my 3B with a 1 1/2" lift. It's up to the driver. Some people tried to get me to go up a trail near here and I just turned around when it got too bad. I was out there to chack out what was around, not to rip parts off the Jeep. I did scrape both diffs last time going up to Top of The World and drug the rear crossmember across a few rocks on the way down. Is my Man Card still intact?

LOL! Your Man Card is quite intact. You navigate the trails in a 60 year old CJ3B - it doesnt get any "manlier" than that!

So perhaps the difference between a rockcrawler and an overlander is just experience-based wisdom and good sense? I too have backed out of a trail, avoided an obstacle, or chosen an easier line to avoid probable or imminent vehicle damage. To me that's just having good sense and knowing the limitations of your vehicle (and budget!).

I think there's a huge difference between rock crawling and wheeling. I see rock crawling as going up that rock filled crevice, or down the boulder filled creek for the fun of it. I see wheeling as sometimes just doing a trail to get to the end of it.

I maintain my position. IMO, "Rockcrawling" is nothing more than a subset of general "fourwheeling". Mud trucks, sand toys, Iceland glacier trucks, rock crawlers - it makes no difference. Any of those special purpose off road vehicles can be used for overlanding. Going to an eastern US off road park for the sole purpose of traversing obstacles with your truck is fourwheeling. Traversing obstacles with your truck to go check out the view of a canyon, an abandoned mine, or experience a remote camping spot is what I consider overlanding.

As far as the vehicle goes, all of us build our vehicles with some level of specialized focus on the terrain that we frequent the most. So once again, it just goes back to the attitude and spirit of the adventure, not the vehicle used.

 

[RubiconGeoff]

It all depends. . . I have crossed continents with bigger tires than most rock crawlers. In reality, there is no such thing as an "overland" vehicle. If you want to drive a 40" tire trail rig to Panama, then go for it. I use all of my overland trucks for recreation rock crawling. It is a great way to test equipment and keep driver skills fresh.

It is more important to understand the difference between rock crawling and overlanding. The vehicle choice is far less relevant.

Rock crawling= The primary pursuit is recreational sport
Overlanding= The primary pursuit is adventure travel

Scott is right. Most of us have multipurpose rigs, and the definition of "rock crawling" versus "overlanding" is not usually black/white but rather shades of gray. Most of my background is with rockcrawlers, but with the purchase of my JK several years ago my intent was to broaden my exploration; I needed an overlander and daily driver, but I still wanted to be able to run the Rubicon Trail effortlessly. After 3.5 years and a terrific variety of trails, I can say that my JK Unlimited Rubicon on 35's fits that bill perfectly. Could I improve my Jeep's rockcrawling capabilities with a set of 42" Stickies, front/rear dovetail, ProRock 80s, and a fire-breathing LS? Sure, but only at the expense of its street and overlanding abilities, and I have no need to run trails any harder than the 'Con.

 

[Bikemobile]

When the road gets rocky the boots and paws hit the ground. I prefer to have a vehicle with 12"+ ground clearance, all terrain tires, and enough power to go 80 on the highway for hundreds of miles if needed.

A vehicle that can go 400 miles to Yellowstone in January to photgraph bison or 400 miles to Moab in June to grab some slickrock.

I have a few friends that still have rockcrawlers, most of them have sold them in exchange for RAZR's and trailers. I still like the idea of a vehicle I can drive on the interstate and off road.

 

[dwvninety]

I once met a fellow on a trail who informed me that "true rockcrawlers" run beadlocks and air down in the single digit. I guess thinking about it, he might be right.

 

[herecomestony]

So I'm new on this forum, but pretty active on several of the other Jeep forums, but I can say the differences are only what you make them to be. For example right now the wife and I are doing a 3,000 mile road trip right now in this...

View attachment 296053

It sits on 37's, 4.88's, and 12" King coilovers and I can say it's a rather comfortable ride so far...

Nice setup!

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: A rockcrawler/overlander is a jeep right off the showroom floor--

Everything depends on your individual traits/patience and degree of damage you'll accept on the jeep !

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[xwazmtb]

I would have to say that its really not what the vehicle is designed for in the Start but how you build it, and use it determines a rock Crawler vs overland vehicle.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Interesting--and what do you THINK the JK/JKU Wranglers are designed for in the "START"

I would have to say that its really not what the vehicle is designed for in the Start but how you build it, and use it determines a rock Crawler vs overland vehicle.

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[calicamper]

My personal definition of an overland vehicle is one that is capable of almost all roads, regardless of how bad they are. This includes highways.... At highway speeds.

If you are redoing your gearing so 55 mph is a struggle, or have removed your anti-sway bars with terrify results at high speeds you have started building a rock crawler.

If your vehicle isn't highway legal, and you have to trailer it on pavement, or of there is more DOM tubing then original bodywork, then you definitely own a rockcrawler.

Also, it would be difficult to define by lift size and tires. A 4" lift with 37" tires looks just about right on a full size dodge, but makes a Suzuki samurai look like a monster truck.

^ pretty much says it all right there.
Also I find there are usually more world travelers 2 and 3 times around who have done it with far less of a vehicle than a Jeep with big tires and a winch. All the world travelers both by sail and by vehicle I know and have met all pretty much agree on one thing. There are two types those who get on with it and GO! And those who obsess over the prep and vehicle choice and rarely actually GO! So I think it would be better just to ask Who's actually gone, on the verge of going? or has been in the prep mode for years?