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[Dave in AZ]

@K9LTW great pics, really shows it well, thanks!

 

[dstefan]

Here’s some pics of my permanently installed thermal liner. For reference, I have two 2” mattresses with a little filler inside the covers, two 1/2” thick pieces of anti-condensation mat and an 1/8” piece of Reflectix on the cabover. Normally also have fitted sheets and a fluffy waterproof blanket to protect it from the dogs as well. When traveling I wedge a foldable baby barrier between the mattresses (so our Malinois doesn’t take an unscheduled flight to the floor at night). Even with all that, I can still close the top with barely a hint of pushing down the front, left corner.

As you can see, the material is nice and tight with the top up. It does wrap around behind the end supports for 99% coverage. I find that it’s both useful for keeping heat in (we run a petrol Webasto heater), and for keeping heat OUT as that vinyl gets scalding hot in the sun! I’ll also loosely put up the window coverings to allow airflow but act as a shade if too much sun is pouring in.

If anyone wants a specific pic, just ask!

Rear left corner when closed

Front left corner when closed

Rear right corner when closed

Top velcro portion when open

Bottom left rear corner when open

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for all the pictures. That’s a really great set up! I’m kind of jealous.
At some point I’m gonna have to figure out how to do something similar, but our thermal liner isn’t really set up for the bottom Velcro or permanent attachment. However, I think it’s going to be worth trying.

You are so right about the sun on the bare tent sides — they do get really hot. I think I’ve probably used the thermal liner the most in my driveway in Phoenix when I was building the camper out, but I’d like to use it more when it’s cold while we’re camping. Its itoo much of a PITA right now.

One further question: where your thermal liner is Velcro‘d on the bottom and attaches to the top edge of the camper box itself, I assume the camper box has some loop Velcro attached, right? The reason I ask is in my camper there’s a big flat piece of bulb seal. Is your Velcro on top of big piece of bulb seal or is it on the bare metal of the camper box itself?

 

[K9LTW]

One further question: where your thermal liner is Velcro‘d on the bottom and attaches to the top edge of the camper box itself, I assume the camper box has some loop Velcro attached, right? The reason I ask is in my camper there’s a big flat piece of bulb seal. Is your Velcro on top of big piece of bulb seal or is it on the bare metal of the camper box itself?

Correct...the top of the frame along the inside of the vinyl is covered in velcro. The only bulb seal I have on the top is at each of the corners of the roof section on the outside. I don't have any large, long pieces of bulb seal up there. In fact, if I'm not careful about making sure the clear vinyl and gray vinyl panels are well-sealed over the window mesh and then drive through DRIVING rain (like what we escaped from Mt. Marston in this summer), I'll get water intrusion through the windows. Fortunately we always have a spare set of dry sheets, an extra bedspread, and waterproof mattress covers. Nothing like popping the top in 30+ mph winds at camp after a LONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG soggy day where your truck is covered in that Polebridge cement after escaping torrential rains to find a damp bed 🫠

And just why the hell did MTDOT (or MTD...whatever) decide to grade a dirt road during such a storm forecasted to last a full 48 hours? 4WD kept us out of sliding in a culvert more than once...unlike some of the other poor fools.

 

[ITTOG]

Here’s some pics of my permanently installed thermal liner. For reference, I have two 2” mattresses with a little filler inside the covers, two 1/2” thick pieces of anti-condensation mat and an 1/8” piece of Reflectix on the cabover. Normally also have fitted sheets and a fluffy waterproof blanket to protect it from the dogs as well. When traveling I wedge a foldable baby barrier between the mattresses (so our Malinois doesn’t take an unscheduled flight to the floor at night). Even with all that, I can still close the top with barely a hint of pushing down the front, left corner.

As you can see, the material is nice and tight with the top up. It does wrap around behind the end supports for 99% coverage. I find that it’s both useful for keeping heat in (we run a petrol Webasto heater), and for keeping heat OUT as that vinyl gets scalding hot in the sun! I’ll also loosely put up the window coverings to allow airflow but act as a shade if too much sun is pouring in.

If anyone wants a specific pic, just ask!

Rear left corner when closed

Front left corner when closed

Rear right corner when closed

Top velcro portion when open

Bottom left rear corner when open

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How much do the plastic black stabilizers at each end smash the bedding?

 

[K9LTW]

How much do the plastic black stabilizers at each end smash the bedding?

Didn't see this until too late to snap a pic last night, but as with most things in life...it depends

The stabilizer up front isn't the problem so much as the wooden support tongue that comes and attaches to the roof with a C-clip pin. "It depends" is related to whether you insulate the roof or not. In hindsight I should've cut a hole in the insulation to allow for the pin to tuck into when the top is collapsed. Though I didn't really like the wear point on the headliner due to that. As a result, with insulation, that support drives down onto the bed. It took us a couple iterations of mattresses to get the size right that with everything stacked (including anti-condensation mats) it's JUST even with the hinge at the bottom of the support. I have one of the anti-condensation mat pieces on top as it's very pliable and I figure it'll decrease any contact damage from the wooden support laying directly on the mattress. Plus I've finally come up with a pretty quick and easy way of expanding and contracting the bed and it just happens that putting the mat on top is the best way I found.

Pulling the top mattress out just a hair before dropping the roof helps as well, particularly if your mattresses et al. stack a little higher than the hinges.

 

[dirtnsmores]

I'm trying to trim some fat from my build sheet before they start it. Wondering if I really want the solar hookups wired in. You guys find you benefit more from getting power from the rooftop solar panels or from the alternator? I'm thinking a lightweight portable solar panel will be better and I already have one in the garage. Can be angled, moved with the sun, etc.

 

[dstefan]

@dirtnsmores That’s one of the two options I might have passed on (the other being the cab facing window) for my way of camping and travel.

I have 25 amps of DCDC charging into a 100 ah Battleborn LiFePo battery and have never needed to supplement it. I have a 100 watt portable solar panel, and did use it a little initially out of “charge anxiety”, but once I had experience with the loads I don’t carry it anymore. Longest I’ve gone has been 5 nights without charging and a draw down to about 20% remaining.

BUT, I rarely use a small inverter (for battery charging), and everything else is 12v in my system. I do use the Maxair fan a lot, and have wired LED lights as well as using a 12v heating pad and sometimes a 12v blanket along the the ARB 50 fridge, a heater with some low draw, and a fair amount of 12v charging of devices via USB.

When I did use the portable solar, it was pretty effective at topping up or keeping up with the fridge in hotter weather. It all depends on your loads, your style of camping and travel, and how willing you are to drill a hole in your roof later to add a cable gland if you want to add rooftop solar, which I may do some day if I keep adding load and/or change how long I’m stationary.

 

[jamiec]

I pick mine up in Feb. chose not to go with a solar hookup. I plan to charge a Jackery and Bluetti via 12V lighter while driving and I have a couple of foldable solar panels. I like the ability to park in the shade in the summer and put the panels in the sun. Also nice to be able to angle portable panels to get maximum sun to charge faster.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Solar VS no solar. I haven't built my system yet. But have done a lot of study on this one.Let's use 400 W as an example. I can buy a 400 W solar panel For 473 dollars, which weighs 38 lbs, with wire and mounting hardware let's call it 45 pounds.

Best case that panel mounted flat will generate 240 watts at five hours a day gives 1000 watt hours. Realistically, you won't get that but will use it for calculation.

For the same cost today, $475 or less, and the same weight 45 pounds, I can get a 200 amp hour 12.8v Lifepo4 Battery with 2560wh. Thats 2400 usable watt hours. So 2.4 days of best case solar at same cost and weight, but probably 3 or 4 actual days.

I have a Pecron e1500LFP with 1536wh. Thats 4096wh total. You can plug the battery in to feed your solar generator power station via any input that takes 12v. Then charge at home, or while driving, via the power station 12v output. My Pecron has 13.5v regulated out to give a 90% charge to other lifepo4 batteries.

It just seems that the battery is same cost and weight, but simpler and ASSURED power, not hoped for solar, and 4096wh seems plenty for the 3 or 4 day trips I would do...

And like @dstefan I can charge while driving at 400w. He has a bcdc 25a charger off alternator that gives 360w max, I have a 400w ac plug in bed of truck already I can plug power station into. Both good charge setups with optimal charging and battery isolation.

Lastly, I feel like my truck will mostly be parked in shade when able, in hot AZ camping, so portable solar panels I can place in sun seems to give more options if needed. I have a 330w portable panel.

So anyways, I am leaning to NOT putting solar up there, now. Someday yes, I am sure, but will see how power goes with battery first.

 

[dstefan]

which weighs 38 lbs, with wire and mounting hardware let's call it 45 pounds.

This is an important point I forgot. Its on your roof and you have to hoist it up and down daily. Even flexible panels add up. For me that was a big consideration as I have a bad back and avoiding any extra roof weight was key.

 

[Dave in AZ]

This is an important point I forgot. Its on your roof and you have to hoist it up and down daily. Even flexible panels add up. For me that was a big consideration as I have a bad back and avoiding any extra roof weight was key.

Dstefan, I would very much like to get more info from you on your power usage. I am only finding nebulous answers mostly, driving me towards 4000wh battery. But you are saying you run off a 100Ah 12v setup? Anything you can tell on daily dc usage and what youfind yourself running to get that, would be like gold to me! Thx!
Gahhh, lost like an Hour work, stupid forum reseting your post page if you go to another tab to look at something!!
Questions:
Longest I’ve gone has been 5 nights without charging and a draw down to about 20% remaining.
- is this with no alternator charging at all? Your battery is 100ah, 1280wh, so you used 1000wh im 5 days or 200wh a day? Seems super low?

BUT, I rarely use a small inverter (for battery charging), and everything else is 12v in my system. I do use the Maxair fan a lot, and have wired LED lights as well as using a 12v heating pad and sometimes a 12v blanket along the the ARB 50 fridge, a heater with some low draw, and a fair amount of 12v charging of devices via USB.

- DC power calcs, daily:

- my calcs so far for me are
Maxxair, 2w setting2 in winter. 10w on med 5 setting. 25w setting 9 in summer. 5 hrs winter, 10hrs summer, so 10wh winter, 250wh summer.
LED halo lights, 75w, but I have led red white bars for each door 50w total, say 5 hrs, 250wh or 370 if using tune lights.
Heater 120w startup 6min so 12wh, 20w after for 10 hrs, 212wh in winter.
Fridge 10 to 30w, low in winter in truck cab, but 24 hrs. so 200wh winter, 700wh summer? Phones, 2 with 2 recharges each so 4000mAh at 3.7v is 15wh x 4, 60wh. Other usb add 40wh, so 100wh. My daily total in winter is thus 772wh! In summer, more fan and fridge but no heater so 1300wh!
Maybe 700wh in 70f fall and spring weather?
How are you lasting 5 days on 1000wh? Thx for any reply!

 

[Pra4sno]

We chose to not put the solar port on ours - having had solar on a few previous setups our thoughts on skipping it were:

I prefer having a movable solar setup, as sites don't often have good exposure. We bring solar on specific trips where we will be stationary more than 3 days - which is very few. We use DC to DC and a 120v as well to recharge.

We get plenty of snow, and I didn't want to have to mess with clearing snow off of panels, or snagging our brush/strap on it when we try to get snow off the roof.

More weight on the roof and more perforations.

Lastly my prior setups that were permanently mounted lost a lot of efficiency by being dirty - they seemed to be dirty almost all the time as we get dust/wind/rain out here. They never charged well in the winter due to angle and snow. A folding 100 or 200w suitcase is so easy to bring along, keep clean, and get optimal exposure.

I should also add that we have a 100AH Lifepo battery in our setup, but also have a portable power bank with 600wh capacity. We supplement our trips with a portable power station that allows us to move a fridge into the vehicle, or bring into a house to charge, or bring out solar panels really far away. It's really nice to have this battery that moves around as it gives us a lot of flexibility which is key for us.

 

[dstefan]

How are you lasting 5 days on 1000wh?

Lower load and usage. We’re still a bit stuck in old tent camping mode. We’ve twice tried to go as long as possible as a test. but with normal use. Conditions were in the summer around 9,000 feet and night temps mid to high 40ºs, daytimes high 70ºs to low 80ºs. Often gone for a large part of the day hiking and using little power. Yes, that’s NO alternator charging or portable solar.

Looking at your calcs, I’d say that in actual use we’re using far fewer hours of everything than you are estimating. And some of our devices are much lower draw. Also, we pretty much bring a fridge full of frozen pre-prepped meals, so for the first couple or three days the fridge is not running much or for long or hard. Also, I have further insulated our ARB 50qt fridge with an outer layer of Reflectix and some 1/4” closed cell foam Reflectix-like stuff with the ARB travel cover outside of that. So the fridge literally doesn’t turn on for at least the first 24 hours (set at 35º).

Lights: We have 5 super effecient wired LED “tube” lights from Powerwerx. They only draw .1A (measured directly from shunt with no other draws). We use 2-3 of them as bug lights, briefly when going in or out. The other two are reading lights and used 2-4 hours a night. Until recently no other wired overhead lights, but used 4 battery powered LED puck lights for general lighting, so no draw. We’re using, at most, 11-12 wh/day vs your estimate of 250 -370. I recently added two wired Hella strip lights that draw .2A, so we’ll use a bit more now.

West Mountain Radio PWRbrite LED Light Strip with Powerpole Connector

The PWRbrite is a low current, high output LED light designed to be mounted to any flat surface. The self-adhesive, snap-in mounting clips allow for easy installation. Provides consistently bright, flicker free, light over a wide range of voltage.

powerwerx.com

No heater use during those test stays. Run the Maxair on lowest settings that work. Not constantly, but not suffering. Use a rechargeable portable fan during hottest times, but often doesn’t need charging, will last 4 hours. Usually have poor to no signal, don’t use phones that much, except pictures, maybe charge 2 phones every other day and 2 ipads every 2-3 days. I did use a 12v heating pad for maybe an hour a night during those stays.

The WeBoost is the other significant draw, but typically only used for an hour or two per day.

List of verified device draws from my shunt (all in amps):
Victron Smart shunt constant standby .12
Powerwerxs tube light .10
Hella light white .20, red .05 (not installed during 5 night test)
Weboost 1.05
Max fan low .2; Mid(4) .76, high 2.8 Never left on on high
ARB Start 3.7, running hot, empty 4.5; running full/cold 2-3
iPhone12 .66 (did’t measure wife’s iPhone SE or her iPad mini)
iPad mini USBC 1.12
Heating pad 1.3
12v blanket high 4.3, med 3.12, low 2.08 (not used during test, when used for an hour maybe on low)
Truma .65/2.75/5.4. Standby .004 (not used for test; draws from Truma, but matches what I’ve noticed in use)

I don’t mean to imply that we could always go 5 days without charging, but depending on circumstances and uses it is possible without hardship for the way we camp. As I noted, we keep adding some loads, and may no longer be as effecient, but our whole philosophy has been to find a balance between minimalist in terms of gear, weight, etc but maximalist in terms of function. Hope this helps!

 

[Dave in AZ]

Lower load and usage. We’re still a bit stuck in old tent camping mode. We’ve twice tried to go as long as possible as a test. but with normal use. Conditions were in the summer around 9,000 feet and night temps mid to high 40ºs, daytimes high 70ºs to low 80ºs. Often gone for a large part of the day hiking and using little power. Yes, that’s NO alternator charging or portable solar.

Looking at your calcs, I’d say that in actual use we’re using far fewer hours of everything than you are estimating. And some of our devices are much lower draw. Also, we pretty much bring a fridge full of frozen pre-prepped meals, so for the first couple or three days the fridge is not running much or for long or hard. Also, I have further insulated our ARB 50qt fridge with an outer layer of Reflectix and some 1/4” closed cell foam Reflectix-like stuff with the ARB travel cover outside of that. So the fridge literally doesn’t turn on for at least the first 24 hours (set at 35º).

Lights: We have 5 super effecient wired LED “tube” lights from Powerwerx. They only draw .1A (measured directly from shunt with no other draws). We use 2-3 of them as bug lights, briefly when going in or out. The other two are reading lights and used 2-4 hours a night. Until recently no other wired overhead lights, but used 4 battery powered LED puck lights for general lighting, so no draw. We’re using, at most, 11-12 wh/day vs your estimate of 250 -370. I recently added two wired Hella strip lights that draw .2A, so we’ll use a bit more now.

West Mountain Radio PWRbrite LED Light Strip with Powerpole Connector

The PWRbrite is a low current, high output LED light designed to be mounted to any flat surface. The self-adhesive, snap-in mounting clips allow for easy installation. Provides consistently bright, flicker free, light over a wide range of voltage.

powerwerx.com

No heater use during those test stays. Run the Maxair on lowest settings that work. Not constantly, but not suffering. Use a rechargeable portable fan during hottest times, but often doesn’t need charging, will last 4 hours. Usually have poor to no signal, don’t use phones that much, except pictures, maybe charge 2 phones every other day and 2 ipads every 2-3 days. I did use a 12v heating pad for maybe an hour a night during those stays.

The WeBoost is the other significant draw, but typically only used for an hour or two per day.

List of verified device draws from my shunt (all in amps):
Victron Smart shunt constant standby .12
Powerwerxs tube light .10
Hella light white .20, red .05 (not installed during 5 night test)
Weboost 1.05
Max fan low .2; Mid(4) .76, high 2.8 Never left on on high
ARB Start 3.7, running hot, empty 4.5; running full/cold 2-3
iPhone12 .66 (did’t measure wife’s iPhone SE or her iPad mini)
iPad mini USBC 1.12
Heating pad 1.3
12v blanket high 4.3, med 3.12, low 2.08 (not used during test, when used for an hour maybe on low)
Truma .65/2.75/5.4. Standby .004 (not used for test; draws from Truma, but matches what I’ve noticed in use)

I don’t mean to imply that we could always go 5 days without charging, but depending on circumstances and uses it is possible without hardship for the way we camp. As I noted, we keep adding some loads, and may no longer be as effecient, but our whole philosophy has been to find a balance between minimalist in terms of gear, weight, etc but maximalist in terms of function. Hope this helps!

This is so far the very best post I've found on EP or OverlandBound or mobile solar forums, for what a popup truck camper might use!! So much thanks!

I think you're in Phoenix area too, and it's nice to see I was way overestimating usages! Now that you mentioned it, I was thinking 110f in summer here...but I'm never gonna camp that, I would be driving north to Flagstaff or up in elevation onto Mogollon rim where it is cool at > 7000msl, as you said! Then in winter, I probably will actually stay down here in the Sonoran desert area. I really was using wooorrst case hey?

Phones, was basing off watching a movie saved to phone. And rechargeable LEDs, was assuming all recharges coming off battery so nothing needs to be dragged into house to charge.

Thx again!

 

[dstefan]

Glad to help. It’s easy to overbuild/overspec stuff. I’ve done it a lot! As long as you can take a modular approach and add capacity later, if you don’t have to start all over, it pays to start smaller and add capacity later.