Power station with equivalent or better 12v outputs than Goal Zero?

Wirebrush

Observer
I'm looking to find a backup/replacement power station for my Yeti 1500x in my Scout camper, but it seems that every alternative I've looked at has half the 12 volt output connections and less than half the maximum 12v amperage output. Is there anything on the market that's comparable? I haven't been impressed with the reliability of the Goal Zero, but I don't want to waste a bunch of energy by running everything through an DC to AC inverter either, especially since most RV type equipment runs on 12v DC anyway.


What do people need six 110v ac outlets on a 1000-1500 amp hour power station for anyway?
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
I'm looking to find a backup/replacement power station for my Yeti 1500x in my Scout camper, but it seems that every alternative I've looked at has half the 12 volt output connections and less than half the maximum 12v amperage output. Is there anything on the market that's comparable? I haven't been impressed with the reliability of the Goal Zero, but I don't want to waste a bunch of energy by running everything through an DC to AC inverter either, especially since most RV type equipment runs on 12v DC anyway.


What do people need six 110v ac outlets on a 1000-1500 amp hour power station for anyway?
If you listed what dc capabilities of that Yeti are, then folks could respond on their power stations, which they know, without having to look up the yeti you have... I'd like to answer with my good one,but not enough to look up your goal zero, if you're going to make me research. Just enough to type this ;)

This guy has reviews on 50 or more stations where he actually tests all the dc output and how much they actually output at once.
 

Wirebrush

Observer
For DC output you get a 12 volt “cigarette” power plug, a pair of 6mm DC outputs, as well as a set of Powerpole connectors supporting up to 300 watts of output.
 

oldnslow

Observer
As far as I know Goal Zero is the only one with the Anderson PowerPole output. Most of them have only the ciggy output port for 12V, usually rated for 10A. As you probably know this is a rather poor connector for power and actually running at 10A may well melt it down (it depends on the plug as well). My Jackery 500 also has the 6mm output ports but the cables are not available or very difficult to find. They are limited to something like 3A.

Some others have 5521 output ports (5.5mm x 2.1mm) but they also are limited to about 3A in reality. Some mfgrs claim 5A, but the connector mfgr says otherwise. Looking at the contact area I don't see these running very long at 5A.

I have seen some off-brands on Amazon that have some kind of circular port rated at 25A. I don't know what connector it is or how well it would work. I doubt that it could be worse than the ciggy port.

Like you, I see the lack of 12V high power ports as a limitation on these devices. I wish more companies would include an Anderson PowerPole or other reliable high power 12V output port. As you say, it doesn't make much sense to run 12V devices off 120V with a power converter.

On a related note I had a small inverter with a ciggy plug on it. When it died I cut that plug and wire leads off and put Anderson PowerPole connectors on the end of it. That particular ciggy plug is a higher quality unit than most, and its a really tight fit in the Jackery ciggy port. I have Anderson connectors on both my fridges, so that gives me a fairly good connection. But I only have the one cable...
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
You will have a hard time beating that, all the good dc ones I know just match that. Basically 12v dc at 30A. So 1500x has:
  1. 12V HIGH POWER PORT​

    12V, up to 30A (360W max), regulated

However, there ARE 2 that match it at better price.
My Pecron e1500LFP has an xt60 port that is 13.4v (12v but regulated at 13.4 so it can charge other LIFEPO4 batteries up to 90%!).
And it is 1536Wh, at $899. Got best solar gen of 2023 on several youtube channels.
I have the expansion battery too, 3072wh, anditt has another xt60 12v 30A socket that you can use at same time, so I am using those 2 xt60 ports to give 60A of 12v to my dc fusebox. With 4608wh total. 40 lbs each, so for another 40 lbs I get a 60A 12v supply. 360w of panels on my roof weighs 40 lb, and would likely give me 250w, maybe 5 hr a day, so 1000wh. So I am bailing om solar panels and going with 3 days good sun supply instead, for the same weight. Battery is $1100 now. Each of those xt60 ports is 400w.

And hmmm... Well, Bluetti ac200max. Has 12v 30A rv plug. 2030wh or so, $1299. The newer Ac200L lost the good 30A dc though, don't buy that one.
 

Wirebrush

Observer
As far as I know Goal Zero is the only one with the Anderson PowerPole output. Most of them have only the ciggy output port for 12V, usually rated for 10A. As you probably know this is a rather poor connector for power and actually running at 10A may well melt it down (it depends on the plug as well). My Jackery 500 also has the 6mm output ports but the cables are not available or very difficult to find. They are limited to something like 3A.

Some others have 5521 output ports (5.5mm x 2.1mm) but they also are limited to about 3A in reality. Some mfgrs claim 5A, but the connector mfgr says otherwise. Looking at the contact area I don't see these running very long at 5A.

I have seen some off-brands on Amazon that have some kind of circular port rated at 25A. I don't know what connector it is or how well it would work. I doubt that it could be worse than the ciggy port.

Like you, I see the lack of 12V high power ports as a limitation on these devices. I wish more companies would include an Anderson PowerPole or other reliable high power 12V output port. As you say, it doesn't make much sense to run 12V devices off 120V with a power converter.

On a related note I had a small inverter with a ciggy plug on it. When it died I cut that plug and wire leads off and put Anderson PowerPole connectors on the end of it. That particular ciggy plug is a higher quality unit than most, and its a really tight fit in the Jackery ciggy port. I have Anderson connectors on both my fridges, so that gives me a fairly good connection. But I only have the one cable...
It's really kind of surprising that there isn't better 12v stuff readily available in this country. I have a couple Amazon special phone chargers for cigarette lighter connections (My 02 Chevy came from the factory with a dual cigarette lighter style output ports) that are flush fit with a small metal pull ring, and they are a good snug fit and rated to charge at something like 45 amps so why can't refrigerators and such use similar quality and design connectors?

These smaller (not on wheeled dollies) lithium units are a nice size and capability for camping off grid, but they're really on the small size for a home backup unit, so why do they insist on having so much 110 v AC and so little 12 v DC? I can understand having 4-6 110 v AC outlets on a 3k amp hour or larger unit, but on a 1k? You would empty it in a hour if you actually used all those outlets. I wish I had enough electrical engineering knowledge to build what makes sense.

It seems like all of these units are designed by the same engineers that designed the web pages that every one of these power station manufacturers use.
 

Wirebrush

Observer
You will have a hard time beating that, all the good dc ones I know just match that. Basically 12v dc at 30A. So 1500x has:
  1. 12V HIGH POWER PORT​

    12V, up to 30A (360W max), regulated

However, there ARE 2 that match it at better price.
My Pecron e1500LFP has an xt60 port that is 13.4v (12v but regulated at 13.4 so it can charge other LIFEPO4 batteries up to 90%!).
And it is 1536Wh, at $899. Got best solar gen of 2023 on several youtube channels.
I have the expansion battery too, 3072wh, anditt has another xt60 12v 30A socket that you can use at same time, so I am using those 2 xt60 ports to give 60A of 12v to my dc fusebox. With 4608wh total. 40 lbs each, so for another 40 lbs I get a 60A 12v supply. 360w of panels on my roof weighs 40 lb, and would likely give me 250w, maybe 5 hr a day, so 1000wh. So I am bailing om solar panels and going with 3 days good sun supply instead, for the same weight. Battery is $1100 now. Each of those xt60 ports is 400w.

And hmmm... Well, Bluetti ac200max. Has 12v 30A rv plug. 2030wh or so, $1299. The newer Ac200L lost the good 30A dc though, don't buy that one.

Thank you! Exactly the info I was hoping to find here. I appreciate it!
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
It's really kind of surprising that there isn't better 12v stuff readily available in this country. I have a couple Amazon special phone chargers for cigarette lighter connections (My 02 Chevy came from the factory with a dual cigarette lighter style output ports) that are flush fit with a small metal pull ring, and they are a good snug fit and rated to charge at something like 45 amps so why can't refrigerators and such use similar quality and design connectors?

These smaller (not on wheeled dollies) lithium units are a nice size and capability for camping off grid, but they're really on the small size for a home backup unit, so why do they insist on having so much 110 v AC and so little 12 v DC? I can understand having 4-6 110 v AC outlets on a 3k amp hour or larger unit, but on a 1k? You would empty it in a hour if you actually used all those outlets. I wish I had enough electrical engineering knowledge to build what makes sense.

It seems like all of these units are designed by the same engineers that designed the web pages that every one of these power station manufacturers use.
There are literally hundreds of these portable power stations from 500wh to 3000wh. You can find every config you could want, you just are not looking at correct places. Here, power station testing and reviews:

ReeWray Outdoors

Jasonoid

Hobotech

Recent build your own exactly as you want, box w alloarts, and also a super DC multiport to add:


 

dstefan

Well-known member
One more. More versatile IMO.
 

Hnoroian

Observer
It's really kind of surprising that there isn't better 12v stuff readily available in this country.
Most of my needs are usb or 12v and have a pure sine wave inverter when needed. I made mine own and still cheaper even using better components and able to be replaced if ever need be.

I don’t have a problem cutting off an end and standardizing my electrical stuff.
One more. More versatile IMO.
Haven’t seen that before, but that’s cool.
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
I have noticed that a lot of 12v stuff can also be bought 12-24v, able to use both. I have shifted to only buying such items, to allow me to go 24v later if desired.
Most all fridges are 12 to 24v input.
LED lighting, for inside, 12 to 24v is same price.
Several fans are 12 to 24v. Maxxfan is 12v though.
BlueSea dc fuseblock can go 36v
Hmm, chinese diesel heater is 12v though :(

Just something I noticed and have never seen talked about. Your wires can be 10 or 12awg instead of 6awg (25 or 30A vs 50 to 60A runs. A 2000W inverter can be 4awg instead of giant 2/0. I guess it really comes down to if you want 2000w or more on inverter, that is where the huge amoerage is.
Or maybe not worth the appliance availability hassle?

What other dc loads might you have on a house battery that you guys don't think 24v is available?
 
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dstefan

Well-known member
Most of my needs are usb or 12v and have a pure sine wave inverter when needed. I made mine own and still cheaper even using better components and able to be replaced if ever need be.

I don’t have a problem cutting off an end and standardizing my electrical stuff.

Haven’t seen that before, but that’s cool.
I have loved my NL DCDC 25. It has allowed me to do what you describe above, but also provides portability (into my 4runner). It’s been rock solid in the 3 years I’ve been using it w/ 100ah Battleborn. I think some higher AH LiFePo batteries will fit it too. This is what Mario at AT Overland specs for a portable system in his toppers, and he uses the same but separate NL DCDC chargers and MPPT controllers when he’s building systems in, which is good enough recommendation for me.

I really like having the two 50amp Anderson input/outputs, and the DCDC charging and MPPT inputs as well (both also 50amp Andersons). No inverter, but I added an external one through one of the 50amp connections, but rarely used it, so took it out for weight savings.

I have one of the 50 amp outputs dedicated to an 8awg line to a Bluesea breakered 5 switch box for my lights, fan, and heater (also has a dual USB and 12v port, which is handy at the rear of the camper as the NL DCDC25 is forward under my bench at the cab bulkhead. The MPPT works great with my cheap portable solar panel, which I switched to an Anderson plug (easy, with a $19 crimper and the connectors), and the DCDC charger has been great — to the point I don’t bother with the portable solar most of the time. It would be simple to plug in roof top solar if desired as well.

Because the battery is easily accessible, you can add to it. I VHB’d a Victron smart shunt on top of the battery inside the box so I have BT phone monitoring. I also don’t trust any 12v outlets for the fridge off-road, so I direct wired ARBs fused 10 gauge fridge loom to the battery (with a fuse) through the wall of the box with an Anderson 15-45amp plug so the fridge cannot be accidentally disconnected or turned off at the box, only through the fridge power button. The NL box does have a locking powerport, which is nice though and could be used easily for a more secure fridge connection for those wanting to plug in to the front of the box.

Another nice touch is that the whole front panel of the box with all the ports, electronics, MPPT solar controller, and the DCDC charger is designed to be removed and can be mounted where ever you want — they also sell the panel and controllers as a separate unit without the box. I can also add a second battery (outside the box) in the future, if desired. Finally, you can also replace any many of the front ports and connectors with other, different ports as long as they’re 29mm (IIRC).

I tend to think NL DCDC25 is kinda the perfect mix of out the box plug and play use combined with flexibility to do what you want as your system/needs grow, as long as you’re not afraid of crimping some connectors. It’s a great bridge between off the shelf and a DIY designed/installed system. Depends on use cases and needs.
 

Dave in AZ

Active member
@dstefan , gonna ask a few questions, you're my go-to truck popup reference lol! I should probably tell you I referenced your build info, over at the Tune M1 owner's group ;)

can you do a pic of this or tell more?
"have one of the 50 amp outputs dedicated to an 8awg line to a Bluesea breakered 5 switch box for my lights, fan, and heater (also has a dual USB and 12v port, which is handy at the rear of the camper"

I have the 12 slot BlueSea DC fuse box. But I like the switch CB panels, so I wouldn't have to install other switches, and could FIND and reset overcurrent easily. I posted about using one for small truck campers, over at DIYsolarForum in the mobile systems section, didn't get much response. That is Will Prowses forum site.

I'd like to know what specific unit you got, and also how you like a centralized switch panel.

I'm looking at switched LED strips too. But I want the red and white ones, and want dimmable or low settings, as well as very warm tone, 2700k or less. The Alucab ones from OKhmmm whoever their dealer is, out of stock. Might just get separate red and white strips for ease?
P.s. really liking that NL box. Looking at xmas battery sales right now...
 

dstefan

Well-known member
This post has all the details. The gray Anderson plug to the right of the red one is the line that I routed along my Dside bed rail to the panel. I will say that I don’t really see the cons I listed in the post as real cons after using it for several years.

This is the Blue Sea switch box. They sell a 6 position one too, without the USB and 12v plug. In hindsight, I might have considered that plus a USB/12v add-on. But it’s just right for now.


This is the box I cut the back out of (to bring in the 8gauge line from behind and not have to surface mount it) and mounted the switch box to. The panel fit perfectly in place of the lid.


Continuing on with electrical . . .

I ran my non-camper 2nd Gen Tacoma with dual Odesseys with my 50qt ARB as the primary draw on the aux battery. Weight management is a big issue for me so wanted LiFePo for weight to amp hour ratio. Plus figured I'd have other other draws in the camper, so a 100 AH Battleborn gives me 3x the AHs for half the weight of my old Odyessy.

Decided on the National Luna DCDC Powerpack (AKA green box). Got some good holiday deals last year, but it may not be the cheapest way to go. I seriously researched the Jackery and others. Lack of good non-solar charging option along with skepticism about Li-ion durability and handing high Phoenix heat as well as the superior amount of amp hours available put me squarely in the Battleborn LiFePo camp. I also don't want to have to install constant rooftop solar if I can avoid it.

View attachment 699692
View attachment 699693
Pro's:
-- Easy to remove (necessary in Phoenix summers where the camper outside can easily get over 120;
-- has 4 50amp Anderson Power Ports (2 for either input or output, 1 for connection to starter battery for charging, 1 for solar input through built in MPPT controller)
-- multiple other USB ports, 12v cigarette ports and 1 Hella port (sometimes called Powerlet), which is higher amp (15 I think) and snaps tight vs normal 12v cigarette ports
-- came with 25 feet of 16mm (~6AWG) cable for the battery connection with fuses and pre-done Anderson plug
-- 25 amp DCDC charger, with Li profile that fits Battleborns
-- MPPT Solar controller
-- On/Off circuit breaker
-- Ports are all pretty easy to switch out can customize, except for the Andersons
-- Year end deal last year included a hardwired monitor, which is pretty useful to watch the solar charging on my portable solar panel when I use it.
-- I could take it out easily and use it in my 4Runner as well
-- I think it's cheaper and/or more versatile than one of the solar generators for the power

Cons:
-- several $100s more expensive than building my own system
-- Stuck with the box configuration. Can't separate components (well, can't do so easily)
-- No inverter as with Jackery's , etc. I used a Victron Phoenix 500amp inverter as you can see in the picture above. Don't really have much heavy duty AC power needs.

Rest of configuration:
I ran the charging cable in a heavy duty loom out the OEM grommets in the Tundra cab bulkhead passenger side and followed the existing P-side electrical lines to the engine bay and starter battery. You can see the cable under the bedrail and then velcro'd to the Bedrug down to the exit in the right corner.
View attachment 699694
My wiring run is kinda long as I'm putting my water cans in the P-side corner to be opposite of the 38 gallon gas tank for weight distribution and didn't want the battery box around the water. Plus, Toyota puts their batteries on the D-side, so I had to add about 8' more 6AWG cable to the supplied cable, but it worked out great.

My camper electrics are in the rear D-side
View attachment 699695
I rive-nutted two bolts on the right side and used a self tapping lathe screw on the left in the corner (where it's too tight for a rivnut) to attach a 1/4" baltic birch panel. Used 8AWG from the battery cable tied under the bedrail to go up to the Bluesea switch box. I really like the Bluesea box. Water resistant with 4 15amp breaker switches. I found a great gasket sealed plastic box on Amazon that the panel fits perfectly into a cutout I made on the lid so I can just open the box for wiring or changes without pulling the panel board. My Maxxair fan goes to one switch, a set of 5 Led lights for the cabin goes to another, the built in 12v port and dual USBs are switched from the top switch (comes that way) and I have one left for future use.

And, it's mounted upside down :oops:. . . I actually did that on purpose to put the USB port up high for an out of the way plug-in for a Luminoodle I have which we attach under the awning at night.

FYI -- Bluesea makes a 6 switch version of this little panel which might be more useful -- gives you 3 more switches than this since there's no 12v or USB on that one.

We've really liked these little lights, which I found on Powerwerx. https://powerwerx.com/pwrbrite-led-light-strip
They draw only milliamps, are clip mounted, can be rotated and have an on-off switch. They come with 6ft of cord and and Anderson plug.
View attachment 699697

I mounted two inside the cabover hinge for reading lights. They work great with the ability to aim the light, which also allows managing the intensity by rotating into the wall or bounce off the ceiling ,etc.
View attachment 699699
There's another over my fridge on the D side at the tailgate Also wired in an Anderson plug to the main light switch in the panel and got a 5th light that I put velco on the mounts so I can move it around and stretch it out under the awning over my stove at night (sorry no pics yet). You can supposedly get colored tubes for them, but they're always out of stock, so I bought a sheet of photo flash gel and scotched taped my own for a bug light.
View attachment 699701
Finally the fridge . . .
I didn't want to have my fridge go through the ports on the front panel of my Powerpack. The 12v ports aren't secure enough to guarantee the connection won't come loose off-road and I didn't want to have the on/off switch turn the power off to the fridge. I could have used one of the 50amp output ports, but that's overkill, plus I use them all. So, I drilled a hole in the side of the box and wired ARB's 10awg fridge loom with it's in-line fuse directly to the battery using a15-45amp Anderson plug. I really like the loom as it has a screw-in plug on the other end for the fridge, so nothing can rattle out. Anderson plugs CAN separate, but I'm using one of their clips to secure it so there's no chance of the fridge disconnecting anywhere in the circuit.
View attachment 699717
You can also see I put in a Victron smart shunt (upper right corner) so I can monitor amps in an out, voltage and charging via Bluetooth on my phone. Very useful.

Finally, I cut a hole in the P-side and wired in a Noco external plug, so I can just plug external power through the wall. Lets me pre-cool the fridge (now that I have to park outside) all night with the camper locked. Just pull the extension cord and the fridge switches over to DC and we can head out.
View attachment 699718
I eventually bought a Victron charger for the battery. One really unexpected benefit was that it turns out that it has a setting for using it as a 12v power source. I just cut off their plug, put a 50amp Anderson plug on it and now I can either charge the battery or run on DC without the battery by connecting to the input plug for my camper wiring. I used this feature a lot when finishing the build out. I haven't used it camping, but if I know I'm going to have shore power it gives me the option, though mostly we're fully off grid.

At this point I'm really happy with the electrical system. It's real easy to work with and performs well. If I was doing it again, I'd have to think real hard about making my own battery box and using a separate DCDC charger and MPPT controller.

There's some advantages of the custom system, but it's a PITA to design and configure, especially without some background in it. I'm used to AC electric work around the house and have done some limited DC work, but wasn't really versed in cabling, crimping, etc and didn't have the tools. I thought I could do the NL Powerpack as simple plug and play and avoid buying a bunch of crimpers, etc.

I did order some premade cables from Powerwerx, but in the end it's expensive to go that route, and I kept finding things I wanted to do, so I just bit the bullet and bought the tools to DIY, and I'm glad I did. I still think, given my level of skill and knowledge at the beginning, the NL Powerpack was the right decision, but if I was doing it in the future again, I'll do my own, now that I'm past the initial learning curve.
 

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