Question from a soon to be overlander

[ttengineer]

This is an aluminum bumper and a three inch long travel lift with 35s. Extremely capable if you ask me.

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[(none)]

This is an aluminum bumper and a three inch long travel lift with 35s. Extremely capable if you ask me.

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There is no doubt it's capable, the question is what is really needed for the OP's travelings.

I'm sure he wants to maintain some gas mileage. I'm sure he want some comfort and quietness. From the sounds of his description, he is not planning to make an off-road dedicated beast, he is looking for something able to do some off-roading along the way of an awesome road trip.

I came from a pretty well built JK, but still pretty mild by many people's terms (lifted, 35s, 4.88s, lockers, etc). I wheeled it all over Georgia, tennesse, Kentucky and Colorado. I "needed" the rear locker maybe 3 times. Front only once. I still used them to mess around with, etc sometimes, but the fact is most of the stuff isn't required 99% of the time. I was super surprised how many stock rigs were running all over the trails out there. That's part of the reason I came back to town and traded by JK in on a 4runner Trail.

 

[ttengineer]

There is no doubt it's capable, the question is what is really needed for the OP's travelings.

I'm sure he wants to maintain some gas mileage. I'm sure he want some comfort and quietness. From the sounds of his description, he is not planning to make an off-road dedicated beast, he is looking for something able to do some off-roading along the way of an awesome road trip.

I came from a pretty well built JK, but still pretty mild by many people's terms (lifted, 35s, 4.88s, lockers, etc). I wheeled it all over Georgia, tennesse, Kentucky and Colorado. I "needed" the rear locker maybe 3 times. Front only once. I still used them to mess around with, etc sometimes, but the fact is most of the stuff isn't required 99% of the time. I was super surprised how many stock rigs were running all over the trails out there. That's part of the reason I came back to town and traded by JK in on a 4runner Trail.

Fair point.

Now a days, stock vehicles are very capable and I don't think there is a question weather they can get the job done most of the time as this has been proven time and time again.

I consider the build as part of the adventure though. It's almost a religious like experience to me. Half the fun is figuring out what will work best for you, in my opinion of course.

Do any of us really NEED all these things?

Doubtful.

But it's more fun sometimes.

Sure, you can have just as much fun without spending money on gear, but sometimes the convenience of the newest and greatest gear allows the user more enjoyment while also providing an easier alternative to the job.

But back to the OPs original question of weight.

I think he should look into aluminum bumpers. That alone will save the 300 lbs of weight overage he is calculating. Pair that with a synthetic line on the winch and another 50-100 lbs is saved depending on model.

I'd ditch a highlift too if you have a winch and go with one of the exhaust jacks saving more weight.






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[Cmason16]

I am paying close attention to the comments and greatly appreciate them.
So I am prioritizing with the following.
This will still be my daily ride with 60 miles a day of commute. So after reading the suggested post and digging more I am going to: Start with BFG AT 265/70/17 KOs for tires. Keeps to specs, good tread wear, and strong side wall.
I will get a good system to air down and the ARB compressor kit with the tank.
I will consider a lift and 275 tires after I get out into the Shenandoah area a bit this winter and spring.
I am going to get the ARB premium recovery kit, even if I do not have a winch, it is still good to have the kit to work with some one.
I am investigating hidden winch mounts, any recommendations?

I am having difficulty in finding AL bumper sources. Any vendor input would be appreciated.

I have started listing a prioritizing camping/expedition gear and will make sure I have that as priority one.
Setting the vehicle aside, I am going with the following sequence:
Emergency stuff - first aid, communications, repair, recovery, and bug out bag
Navigation - primary and alternate GPS (I have multiple small hand held as back ups, but plan on iPad and Garmin 276cx as primary with compass and map as back up.
Basic stuff - shelter (RTT and/or OZ5 tent), camp kitchen, food storage
Comfort stuff - camp furniture, lighting, and extra stuff like bikes.

I visited Turtleback trailers yesterday while out in Phoniex visiting family. Great guys, amazing product.
The wife (who will not camp unless there is a full size tub in the tent) evensaid she would go out for two days with us!

The Turtleback covers a lot of my list, and provides storage to keep the vehicle weigh way down. The trailer would slow me down, which is a good thing. It would make me think a lot about terrain ahead.

Of course it sucks gas mileage, and is a PITA to turn around on the trail.

I also have the option of moving the RTT from the trailer to the 4Runner for shorter outings.

Well prior planning prevents piss poor performance. Please keep the comments coming.

Oh yeah, I decided that one mod will be to move the breathers up.

 

[Benc]

I truly doubt the effectiveness of so-called bull bars, in moose country we refer them as damage multipliers. There is a thousand ways to skin a cat and you see that in the varying ethos of travelers on this board, from going down the trail and throwing a sleeping pad on the ground to multiple thousand dollar roof top tents that only get used in developed campgrounds. On a 4 month trip through Canada and the US I leaned towards 'be prepared for anything' and my trip suffered for it due to all the BS I carried around which never got used. Now I'm more of a minimalist as I found having a decent set of tires, recovery gear, and camping gear gets me just about anywhere I need to go. If you think of every gadget you will need for every bad scenario eventually you'll have no room for the kids.

I'm talking about a real bull bar, not brush guard or push bar.

Moose are not the only animal out there or the most common but a true bar will absolutely help in a collision!
I get there are different opinions here but for me being prepared is extremely important, especially if your bringing along the family! Most of my gear hardly gets used but it's there when I need it and I'm definitely happy it's there when I need it! Most of the time my gear is used to help out unprepared travelers but it's gotten me out of some scenarios that could have gone very bad without the experience and properly equipped vehicle
Now for me it's not rare to be a 100 miles out in the woods or desert so my vehicle is going to need to be more set up than someone who rarely sees a dirt road in their travels.
My point is if you see something that may be useful to keep you going, keep you and your vehicle safe in the type of travel you do than do not leave it at home to save some weight, you will regret at some point.


Im not sure of all that offer aluminum but I think palfrey bilt, hefty fab works make an aluminum option, you can also check demello, cbi and relentless.



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[SDDiver5]

Tire are def one of the top priorities, if not already at the top. Good move.

Since you will be using a T4R, are you on the T4R forum? There is a wealth of knowledge on there. You will literally get 1,000 write ups and questions on everything T4R related. Fun site and you will see many rigs on Expo and T4R.

Keep up with the planning, thats half the fun.

 

[rob103180]

My input.

Upgrade to heavy OME. Do the Gobi for storage. Do the front ARB with 8000 lb winch with synthetic line. No sliders. Only need a rear bumper to relocate the tire or for storage and recovery. Focus on important items such as air compressor, dual batteries with management, tire repair kits, and first aid. I recommend National Luna on dual battery management. I use their system with deep cycle Optima, an inverter, and solar panel.


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[hieronymus]

You'd be surprised what a stock Toyota can do...even with stock tires.

 

[Rick Masters]

I've had a lot of similar mods done to my Tacoma, and I do a lot of dispersed camping. A few insights from my experiences:

1. Bumpers are more than just a hard-point. Often times I will find myself needing to get somewhere that approach and departure angles are problems. The only answer here is getting rid of the stock bumpers and going aftermarket. I'm also of the thought that full bull-bars don't help much in high-speed impacts, and I don't like the way they look, so I didn't get them on my bumper. Shoving the occasional stubborn cow out of the way is still very doable without the hoops. I opted to go with Pelfreybilt (they also do 4runner bumpers and armor) on the front and rear. The rear offers some additional storage for fuel and a spare tire that no longer fits in the stock location, via a swing-out gate. It also has a fold-down table which is one of the most useful things about the swing-out.

2. Spend the money on good suspension. I have OME everything, and it works, but it's a bit of a stiff ride. I need it for all the weight I have, but I have had to make adjustments like adding springs and shims.

3. A winch is worth its weight in gold. I've never had to use it for myself, but it has been exceptionally useful helping others get out of bad situations or up into an area that they otherwise couldn't. One thing to note about a winch, get a big enough one. You will need a winch that can pull 1.5X the weight of your entire set-up, meaning your truck + trailer automatically disqualify an 8000lb winch. In addition, make sure you have adequate recovery gear and know how to use it.

4. Sliders are useful for more than just rocks. They smash down trees and help avoid body damage from trees that jump out at you. I wish I had them when I found a particularly aggressive tree a few years ago... They are probably more useful than bumpers unless you have need for angle changes.

5. The only skid that is really necessary is a front skid. Everything else is rock-crawling armor. So unless you are planning on doing some crawling, I wouldn't worry too much about the skids.

6. Weight is a major concern, but only because of gearing. Once your vehicle gets heavy and you plan on towing, your stock gearing probably won't be adequate. Regearing is something I will be doing before I start pulling a trailer around with me.

You seem to be in the same vein I am in, looking to get well off the beaten path and camp out for a day or two, maybe longer. I've come into situations where I have needed everything I have, and that's sort of the key here: Only get what you need, and nothing more. When overlanding, half the battle is storage space for everything, so don't use up space for items you will never use.

 

[Dalko43]

My 4x4 experience has been limited to military in both military and commercial off-road vehicles, but I plan to take training on 4x4 and recovery. I have driven a old 6by into the FL bush when I was a firefighter many many years ago. Lesson learned there - keep your thumbs out of the steering wheel! My military experience will translate in planning and prep, but I probably have bad habits from the field as far as driving goes.

I am want to get to locations very less traveled on routes that are not extream. No rock crawling, no crossings that need a snorkel.
I plan on an iPad based ODBII monitoring for vehicle details, which should give me trans temps. I see the front bumper for protection and recovery with the winch, the sliders and skids as protection, but I am not sure about the need for the rear bumper. Get the spare out from under the vehicle? Is it needed for recovery and jack points? The roof rack for light bulky items such as OZ5 tent.

The suspension mods will be tailored to final planned weight and balance with the lift not exceeding 3 inches, preferably 2 inches.

The trailer would not exceed 2500 pounds with a max tongue weigh of 300 pounds which of course eats up some of my GVWR. I am still working on selecting the trailer - down to either Turtleback (which will be lighter) or Borderland Outpost XT. I plan on base camp set up in several places and exploring by vehicle and hiking. I also get to bring more gizmos.

Some many choices!

I'll just throw this out there: less is more with the 4runner. Besides the fact that your mpg will tanks as soon as you start adding weight and drag, the all-ready mediocre acceleration will get even worse. IMHO, this engine/transmission isn't ideal for adding all kinds of heavy mods, unless you want to get into re-gearing, which is a whole other can of worms.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep it simple:
- Keep the stock skid plates; for anything short of very technical rock-crawling, they work just fine for protecting your underside. If you are looking for just a bit more coverage, consider the ARB skids, which are nice compromise between the stock skids and the heavy, diaper-style skid plate packages offered by the aftermarket.
- ARB's bumper is heavy, big and doesn't seem to conform to the 4runner's front end as well as other bumpers, though it is air-bag compatible. I think a slightly lighter steel bumper (like CBI's or Domello's) or even an extra light-weight aluminum one would be worth a look over ARB's. The front end weight (bumper + winch + tires) can really add up and I'd look for any areas to cut weight. I'd even consider forgoing a bumper entirely and just mounting a hidden winch behind the stock bumper. The vehicle's approach angle is decent enough that you really shouldn't have too much front end scraping as long as you take the right line.
- Roof rack might be entirely unnecessary if you are getting a trailer; as well, there is ample space in the rear of the 4runner.
- From what I've heard, 275/70/17s will fit in the tire carrier area, so between that and having a trailer for carrying extra fuel, a rear bumper may also be entirely unnecessary.
- Rock sliders will add a bit of weight regardless of the brand and make, but you have to figure out how likely they are to get used depending on the type of terrain you'll be crossing.

Moral of the story, the 4runner's 4.0L engine lends itself to a light-weight setup; adding significant weight in the form of full skids, roofrack, heavy duty bumpers, ect. will tank your mpg and your acceleration. And quite honestly, the 4runner trail in stock form is more than capable of going most places you can drive a highway vehicle; all of the mods you're talking about (winches, bumpers, bigger tires, new suspension) are nice to have, but certainly not required for most of the driving you'll be doing. I've tackled some pretty hairy trails in Canada and the northeast in my stock 4runner...used the locking diff a few times and KDSS and I got through some pretty difficult terrain without much of a problem. Of course, some extra gear is always nice to have as a backup, but my point is you can still have fun and explore a bit with a stock 4runner as long as you use some common sense.

 

[AxleIke]

Few points:

1. A rear bumper and tire carrier sound cool, and look cool, and work well offroad. Day to day, mine is a pain. I'd put it last on the list of things to do.

2. Benc is correct. A real bull bar will help you a lot in a crash. I have some real world examples, from my father in a 1997 4runner with several ARB bull bars (Kept replacing them after the crashes, and also in his 2004 Tacoma:
a) Dad and brother are out on adventure together a few hundred miles from home. Old man in a buick turns left in front of him while he is traveling 20 mph. Bull bar is bent, fender is dented. Buick roof is seprated from the b-pillar to the rear glass. Accident report, blah, blah, and after, they loosen the bolts on the bull bar, pull it back into semi shape, tighten it back down, and drive off and continue their adventure canoeing and camping. Zero radiator damage, no headlight damage, no hood damage, nothing to make the car unsafe. Got it fixed under insurance when the got back.
b) Dad again. comes around a blind curve at 45 mph (the speed limit). BMW X5 stopped in road looking at big horn sheep (sheep are not on road). rear ends BMW. Again, bull bar bent and mangled, but no body damage, and no damage to the workings.
c) Dad and mom in 2004 Tacoma with ARB bull bar (again). 4wheel camper in back, headed up towards Banff NP. Not long after they cross the border into Canada, they unfortunately hit a deer traveling at 55 mph. Bull bar damage: Broken turn signal, slightly pushed backward.

Now, I will argue that a Moose is a bad example. I have a reasonably lifted truck, and I would imagine that if I hit a moose, bull bar or no, its coming over the hood and into the windshield. Doesn't really matter what you have on the front at that point.

3. I would get a light bar, as the extra light is VERY nice on the long highways, but I wouldn't put it on the roof, unless you black out the hood. I've been in two truck with roof bars and the one without the blackout hood had wicked glare. Would be very distracting on the road. I have my lights wired up to my highbeams, so when the big lights are on, I can simply hit the dim switch and they go off with the brights. Very nice for driving on the highway.

4. Sliders are good. Good piece of mind. Personally I keep them tucked in as tight as possible so that you aren't constantly getting mud on your pants when you get out.

5. "full skids" aren't really needed. I've seen tons of trucks with full belly pans and I've never seen it be usefull. A good front skid under the front diff, a tcase skid, and a gas tank skid are all you need. The full skid pans hang down and you actually lose clearance in a bunch of areas. My advice would be to just do the minimum on skid plates. I honestly don't see you needing them whatsoever based on the type of trip you are talking about, as you have factory skids on those things which will survive quite a lot (I beat mine to death before building new ones, and I was taking it up more difficult stuff.

Anyway, its obviously your truck, and if you have your heart set on all that stuff, go for it. I'm a firm believer in building the rig you want, not what the internet thinks you should have. My $0.02 is here just for a perspective. Best of luck, and congrats on getting to take your son on such a great trip!!!