Real Time? Mac Pro or G5

Scott Brady

Founder
Comp USA has several smokin deals on the last of the G5's. At least $500 off, resulting in getting a nicely equipped machine for around 1,600.

What am I risking by going with the G5? It seems that the last of a model run for a Mac should be near bulletproof, no? These are nicely outfitted machines too, with big drives and 2gb of memory.

I am very tempted by the G5, as I have lusted over those for a few years, and the new Intel switch has me somewhat concerned.

Thanks for helping out a PC guy :)

Oh, and this machine will take all of the graphics design and image processing duties for Steph and I, freeing me up to buy the most rugged laptop possible for expedition work (i.e., I can sacrifice speed for durability).
 

ZooJunkie

Explorer
Being a Mac guy and supporting these machines for our customers *we also use them in our product as well*, you can't go wrong w/ the G5. However, because of the new Intel cpu based Macs are more versatile with respect to an OS, I prefer the Intel based models over the IBM/Moto CISC based G5s.

We have a few that were overheating and randomly crashing. Me thinks the crashing was more of an OS issue than hardware.

Because more software is Windows based, for the money, I would recommend the Intel based Macs.

I'd wait till the Intel Macs are falling of the back of trucks. :jumping:

Oh, this is the company I work for: www.efi.com
 

bigreen505

Expedition Leader
This is a touchy and personal subject and the only people who can give you real answers are under NDA, and even some of them that I have spoken with don't know what they would do in the same situation. Feel some measure of comfort that there are many Mac users, like me, that held on to G4's knowing that the Intels were coming, and now that we know how far off software is for them are stuck in exactly the same situation as you. Either buy obsolete equipment to run current software now knowing that an upgrade will be forced in the next 12-18 months, or buy Intel knowing that we are paying a premium for the latest technology even though there is no software for it yet.

expeditionswest said:
What am I risking by going with the G5?

You are buying a computer that will be comparatively slow and obsolete on all design software starting a year from now. IMO there are no real disadvantages in the next 12 months. All software coming out is Universal Code, which means it runs natively on both PPC and Intel chips. In the future I would expect software to be Intel only, so you run the risk of buying a computer that is pretty worthless in five years.

I'm not sure what your PC situation is, but if you go with the Intel mac and run Windows versions of the design programs through Boot Camp, you get the maximum speed currently available and you can run the software on your laptop.

On the other hand, by going with the G5, you save $1000 and you are buying a computer that is the best tool for the job now. If you are planning to buy current software now and don't plan to upgrade for a couple years it is a good way to go. You need to fully understand, and be comfortable with the fact you are buying obsolete technology. The accountant in me says this is a business purchase, not a personal purchase, so buy the G5 now and fully depreciate it this fiscal year, then buy the Intel mac when you are ready to upgrade software.

It seems that the last of a model run for a Mac should be near bulletproof, no?

I don't know, I would buy Apple Care anyway. The G5, despite it's huge power consumption and heat output, is a pretty solid platform, but they have definitely learned how to improve on it with the Mac Pro. Still, there is always a risk of bad RAM or a defective hard drive.

I am very tempted by the G5, as I have lusted over those for a few years, and the new Intel switch has me somewhat concerned.

Concerned about reliability because it is new or concerns about the G5 because it is obsolete, and soon to be abandoned, technology?

Oh, and this machine will take all of the graphics design and image processing duties for Steph and I, freeing me up to buy the most rugged laptop possible for expedition work (i.e., I can sacrifice speed for durability).

Okay, we need to have a real, honest conversation for a minute here. Not me and you, but you and Steph. How much volume do you really expect to have, what size files and what quantity of them do you expect to be working with, and what percentage of your work will be against tight deadlines? If you are working with lots of big files in a high volume environment, particularly requiring 3D rendering and video production, you will recoup your investment in the Intel computer with increased throughput in less than a year. I know it sounds cliche, but every second saved throughout the day adds up. If that is not the case, keep a PC for e-mail and billing software (QuickBooks for the Mac bites and lots of great business management software is PC only) and print server, and use the Mac as a graphics workstation only, I don't think you will lose much of anything going with the G5 over the Mac Pro.

Hope I didn't confuse you further.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
The MacPro has me concerned because of it being brand new and unproven. Will the old mac applications run on the intel chips?

We will use this machine only for high volume image processing, graphics design, layout design, web development and video processing.

All other work, emails, word processing, financial, etc. will be done on our PC's. The laptop I purchase will be a fully rugged model that will be for navigation, web posting from the road, word processing for articles and light image processing.

I really like the idea of a G5 as it is proven, runs all their current software and ensures (nearly) all of the good things about switching to a Mac IMO (reliability, robust software, uptime).


For me, if I buy a MacPro and cant get software for it for over a year (as indicated above), that would be a huge dissadvantage. I already view computers as appliances anyways, and would likely replace it in three years regardless.

Your help is so appreciated on this :)
 

bigreen505

Expedition Leader
First, let me apologize for being so long winded. I'm sick and my head is a little foggy.

The Intel Macs have a program called Rosetta that translates old programs to the new chip. From what I understand it works very reliably, but is slow. If you plan to be doing a lot of Final Cut Pro work it may be worth getting the Intel, either Pro or iMac.

If I am running Photoshop actions on high res digital files (70MB or bigger) the computer is the slow part. If I am doing any creative work that requires thinking, I am the slow part and a faster computer is only somewhat beneficial. Check the tests at barefeats.com. If I recall, the Intels, even the iMac, was faster for video rendering.

The more I think about it, I would probably get the G5 or the iMac and skip the Mac Pro for now.
 

Life_in_4Lo

Explorer
The Intel Mac is too slow for graphics. This is the fault of the software not up to date, running native. It runs emulation - rosetta- and is much slower.

all I do is photoshop/illustrator/a.e. and I will not get a Intel mac until next year.
 

Desertdude

Expedition Leader
Be careful about buying from a reseller - you will still need other things which you can get from the Apple store online

-----------------
G5 quad + 30" monitor + at least 8 gigs of apple ram + the fastest video card you can get + (2) 500 gig internals + 3 yrs. of Applecare (in case)

Adobe CS suite - Final Cut Studio - powered speaker monitors
-----------------

with this you will be good to go for at least three years - by then the intels and new OS will be well sorted out -

I would still decide exactly how much time you will be spending behind this machine - if you are mostly thinking graphics/design work - I would save the money and get the latest 20" iMac and the Adobe suite and call it done
All Mac's come included with iMovie HD and iDVD which you can do quite a lot of editing on and create right out of the box

If you can wait a few more months you might find that Apple usually does sometimes add new products to the line...

you can find refurbished G5 ( with warranty at Apple) for 19% less than retail - HERE

and also from the Apple store - HERE

since your other endeavor has to do with education you are eligible for the Apple educational store discount in the Apple store look for the link to the ED store and fill in you info for a nice discount
 

bigreen505

Expedition Leader
Desertdude said:
-----------------
G5 quad + 30" monitor + at least 8 gigs of apple ram + the fastest video card you can get + (2) 500 gig internals + 3 yrs. of Applecare (in case)

Adobe CS suite - Final Cut Studio - powered speaker monitors
-----------------

since your other endeavor has to do with education you are eligible for the Apple educational store discount in the Apple store look for the link to the ED store and fill in you info for a nice discount

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
 

Scott Brady

Founder
As DesertDude is the video master, I will only be doing light video editing.

Do you guys think that the G5 Dual 2ghz with 2gig of ram will be enough? 23" monitor. Again, I am not too worried about internal HD space, as I have nearly 2TB already at the house (just added 1TB this week).

I think it will be fine, and wont cost as much as a new BMW F650, which is what I would much rather be buying than a new computer :elkgrin:
 

Desertdude

Expedition Leader
For light editing and PS work - you might want to consider 4 gigs a minimum 2 gigs will work and you would be OK but when you start having a few different apps open and needing power you will run short - the OS will chew up between 512 and 1 gig to run that leaves 1 gig left for Apps

still opt for the fastest video card - this will keep your monitor happy and help with those apps that require a nice fast card

I am not sure how your storage is formated - you should at least get 250 gigs internally dedicated to the Mac - the idea of a second drive internally is one for back up and video scratch disc

23" monitor = very sweet


as far as the dual - this is approaching legacy status - ( not that it is a slow machine) the quad is not too much more $ and it is the fastest of the non intel's

you will mostly notice speed during PS rendering + video editing/rendering effects

by the time you assemble the G5 - ram - video card - and monitor you are approaching $ 4K - ( resale later [2yrs] will be 25% or quite a bit less)

--------------------------

I would still highly recommend the 20" Imac w/2gigs ram/fast vid card/applecare - 2250.00

this iMac will do all the things you would like to do and will keep you in the current status of intel core duo ( resale later [2yrs] will be about 50% or higher)

especially if you are not glued to the computer 24/7 - a higher investment ( G5/23") might not be the best thing to do for the first entrance into Mac world
 

DaktariEd

2005, 2006 Tech Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
Random thoughts...

BigGreen505 raised some good points.

There will definitely be some lag time before software catches up with the new Intel chips and they work out the bugs.

Grabbing the last of the G5's is a good deal in my opinion. Superb machine, lightning fast, liquid cooled...very nice! But I am prejudiced you know!

That's why I snagged a 17" PowerBook...the price dropped just before the MacBook came out.

Rosetta definitely slows things down. I've seen that with friends' Intel Mac.

I run a dual 2.7 Ghz, 2 GB RAM; got it 8 months ago. Is your deal a 2 GHz, or 2.7 GHz?

I would go for it, depreciate the G5, and in 3-4 years get the latest Core Duo monster!

Just my 2 centavos....

:sombrero:
Ed
 

jeffryscott

2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
Let me be the devil's advocate here - and no, I'm not saying stick with Windows - but as I mentioned in your aperture thread, rumors are strong that Apple will be updating some machines in the next week or so - highly likely the iMac will be updated and possibly even add 23-inch screen. The update will loikely be intel's Merom chip, reported to be 40-percent faster than the current core duo chip.

Since internal storage is not important, I would seriously look at the iMac. Even the 20-inch machine is 1699, plus you can add a 20-inch monitor to it for 699 and have dual monitors. Maxed out Ram is $200 and frankly, I think that is all the machine you would need for the near future - even if video became a bigger part of your work load.

The G5 would certainly serve you well, but it is a dead end. Any new software is going to take advantage of the intel chips. And once the software is native, the G5 will be a relative dog.

Also, with the iMac the chip is user replaceable if you have some technical skills, which I suspect you have. :ylsmoke: So for a few hundred dollars, you could upgrade it to faster chips as they come out.

Good luck (and I am not bashing the G5 by any means, it is awesome machine - I just think the newer machines take it to another level).

Have fun,

Jeff
 

Desertdude

Expedition Leader
:iagree: the iMac might look cute - but they really can do the work :littlefriend:

jeffryscott said:
Let me be the devil's advocate here - and no, I'm not saying stick with Windows - but as I mentioned in your aperture thread, rumors are strong that Apple will be updating some machines in the next week or so - highly likely the iMac will be updated and possibly even add 23-inch screen. The update will loikely be intel's Merom chip, reported to be 40-percent faster than the current core duo chip.

Since internal storage is not important, I would seriously look at the iMac. Even the 20-inch machine is 1699, plus you can add a 20-inch monitor to it for 699 and have dual monitors. Maxed out Ram is $200 and frankly, I think that is all the machine you would need for the near future - even if video became a bigger part of your work load.

The G5 would certainly serve you well, but it is a dead end. Any new software is going to take advantage of the intel chips. And once the software is native, the G5 will be a relative dog.

Also, with the iMac the chip is user replaceable if you have some technical skills, which I suspect you have. :ylsmoke: So for a few hundred dollars, you could upgrade it to faster chips as they come out.

Good luck (and I am not bashing the G5 by any means, it is awesome machine - I just think the newer machines take it to another level).

Have fun,

Jeff
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Desertdude said:
--------------------------

I would still highly recommend the 20" Imac w/2gigs ram/fast vid card/applecare - 2250.00

this iMac will do all the things you would like to do and will keep you in the current status of intel core duo ( resale later [2yrs] will be about 50% or higher)

especially if you are not glued to the computer 24/7 - a higher investment ( G5/23") might not be the best thing to do for the first entrance into Mac world

Steph and I are going to run to the Apple store this afternoon and give everything a test run :)

I just did more research on the iMAC and it is looking pretty dang good. You can even hook up a second monitor too. I am digging them.

I will report back

A PC guy treads into unknown waters, stay tuned :088:
 

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