Rear power; 2nd battery or long cables?

[IdaSHO]

You are giving out bad info that could cause somebody a problem. A 2 gauge wire might be adequate for battery to alternator.

Bad info?


Really? And you want to know why Im responding the way I am?
Because all of your responses have been based upon assumptions.
All of which assume wrong.



Read the thread title. Its about REAR POWER.

2 gauge wire IS adequate for rear power when also using a rear battery.
I dont care what size winch you have, when used right it DOES work. Period.

Matter of fact, MANY rear winch wiring kits ARE 2-gauge. For all the way up to 10k winches.
Lots of folks are using 2gauge for even larger winches when combined with a rear battery.

Example:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrn-32966/overview/
https://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/quick_connect_all.shtml



And oh look, using the same anderson connectors as I did. Imagine that!

A winch will draw more than 200 amps.

Your first statement. This is incorrect. Not all winches draw more than 200a. Just an assumption on your part that was stated as fact, when in fact is false.

Not sure what size winch you have but even an ATV winch can draw more than 90 amps:

Again, an assumption. Sure an ATV which CAN draw more than 90, but as stated, mine does NOT.
You have no idea what winch I have, yet you still go off and post data on winches that I might have in hopes of proving what?

And Ill again prove your error.

The winch I have is a Warn 1700DC Pulls a max of 83 AMPS.
Just as I said. Twice now, (or three times) the winch I have pulls less than 90A

https://www.warn.com/utility/dcwinches/1700DC.shtml



Any more questions?

 

[MOguy]

Bad info?


Really? And you want to know why Im responding the way I am?
Because all of your responses have been based upon assumptions.
All of which assume wrong.



Read the thread title. Its about REAR POWER.

2 gauge wire IS adequate for rear power when also using a rear battery.
I dont care what size winch you have, when used right it DOES work. Period.

Matter of fact, MANY rear winch wiring kits ARE 2-gauge. For all the way up to 10k winches.
Lots of folks are using 2gauge for even larger winches when combined with a rear battery.

Example:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrn-32966/overview/
https://www.warn.com/truck/accessories/quick_connect_all.shtml



And oh look, using the same anderson connectors as I did. Imagine that!







Your first statement. This is incorrect. Not all winches draw more than 200a. Just an assumption on your part that was stated as fact, when in fact is false.




Again, an assumption. Sure an ATV which CAN draw more than 90, but as stated, mine does NOT.
You have no idea what winch I have, yet you still go off and post data on winches that I might have in hopes of proving what?

And Ill again prove your error.

The winch I have is a Warn 1700DC Pulls a max of 83 AMPS.
Just as I said. Twice now, (or three times) the winch I have pulls less than 90A

https://www.warn.com/utility/dcwinches/1700DC.shtml



Any more questions?

yes, just one. Find me a winch adequate for recovering a full size truck that will using 200 amps.

 

[MOguy]

I believe you are looking for a hydraulic winch

That would work.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Well Skygear, I just went through 31 pgs of your dual battery thread. Tacoma guys are pretty thorough. Some really good info there.
To put to reference, I'm trying to decide on size and type of batteries for my land cruiser. J

 

[cruiserpilot]

Post a pic of the engine bay. Or pm me details and I can come up with recommendations.

In a nutshell, dual batteries, simple solenoid isolator, dual alternators ( factory has vacuum pump, req'd on 12H-T, but lower output 55A ) so I installed a second
110A alternator, house battery runs truck, second battery powers all else.
Dual winches, NL Fridge/freezer, 4 aux halogen lights, hot buss located inside inner fender, common ground located same area. 2/0 battery cable from aux battery
to 750A isolator switch for winches and Anderson plug to front bumper. At rear winch, I have a sealed box with waterproof connectors for +/- and I keep the contactor
for the winch in there. 2/0 cables run from the outer connections to rear Anderson plug on rear bumper. 300A Anderson plugs for boosting. 4 ga wires from contactor
run through sealed connections and are only 12" long to winch motor so power loss at all. I've got 10 AWG wire lead to fridge freezer, about 15' long. I'll be putting a
splitter on that so I can have another 12V connection in the rear for led lights/phone, whatever.
I have series 27 batteries, problem lies in hood clearance for negative terminal when I install series 31 batteries.
If I were to order an Odyssey 31M with the dual style terminals, is it acceptable to you to trim the threaded stud terminal down so it is shorter? Does it really matter if a
person does this? I prefer the military style lead connectors, better connection and continuity to me. Its just that the series 31 batteries are about 1/2" too tall.
Are you on Mud?

 

[cruiserpilot]

Skygear - I deleted my last, and have spent the last couple of hours poring over battery sites. Canadian sources are different, so sometimes it hard to equate
back and forth across the border. But, that being said, I think I have found the desirable battery for keeping stock series 27.

http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0.1.0/250/NorthStar_Ultra_High_Performance_Batteries_05-15-12.pdf

These are an AGM, high reserve - which is my big criteria for having 2 winches and a fridge freezer in the background. NSB-AGM27 and NSB-AGM27F.
Left side and right side. Now I'll cross post over to Mud, cause somewhere there I have a similar thread. I'm in the 60 section most often.

 

[rb70383]

I wasn't expecting this much of a response but bring it on. I do need to go through and reread some posts.
As for my truck, It has a 3K winch mounted on the flatbed. Now I just bring a battery and run the winch to pull a car onto my trailer. I will be mounting a rear recovery winch under the flatbed where the spare tire resides. Winch in mind is an Engo 12000 winch. Manual
The amount of current that winch can draw (360A) leads to heavy wires front to rear One chart, rounding up to 400A, states 2-3/0 cables. Not to mention I don't like cables that can supply that much current (how do you fuse that and would it even matter at 360A) to be live all times, meaning I would also need a continuous duty solenoid, hence the rear battery with a stout charging cable.

 

[rayra]

That is sounding like a positive for a second battery. Only thing is its a diesel and it already has dual batteries. Now it will have 3. Ugh

Just run some phat cables to the rear, and use something like an Andersen PowerPole connector / adapter. Re-wire your front winch connection the same. Then whether it's connected front or rear you are just plugging it in.

You can get the 0/1 wire at any big hardware store, usually under $2 / linear foot, by the foot. And the wire terminating connectors.

This is a good vendor for their stuff, used by a great many HAMs, down at the bottom of the page are the big ones suitable for this.
http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/housings-contacts/

/no financial ties, just a satisfied customer

 

[Ducky's Dad]

I'm late to this party, but in response to OP's question re 2005 Dodge diesel with factory dual batteries: I have a 2005 Dodge gasser and have triple batteries, with a 31M under the hood and a pair of 34Ms under the cab. Best place to mount your second battery will probably be under the cab, passenger side, right about where the passenger's feet would be. Hang a reinforced battery box on the frame and lay the battery on its side so that you can tuck it up as high as possible. In that location you can fish the cables through the inside of the frame rails to get them up to the engine compartment, then it's an easy run for big cables to the rear for the winch. Another alternative would be to get one of the rear-mount boxes that is built for drag trucks, and I have seen them specifically for the 3G Dodge. These mount to the frame behind the right rear wheel, inside the fender. For cable, CraigsList is your friend. I found 160 feet of red and black 3/0 pure stranded copper welding cable for $170 last summer, and my truck is now wired with that, replacing the 1/0 that I used when it was only a dual battery system with factory alternator. There is a ton of used welding cable on CL, but the trick is to find the right gauge in the right length.

Re that hammer crimper pictured earlier in this thread, I have that same crimper and chose not to use it for the 3/0 cable. Mechanic friend showed me the solder "plugs" that he uses for making up those cable terminations. He puts the copper ring connector in a vise, drops in the solder plug, then inserts the stripped cable end and heats the connector with a torch. When the plug melts, the cable seats and you are done, except for a piece of heat shrink. Seems a lot more secure than anything I could do with the hammer crimper.

 

[rb70383]

Any pics of the frame mounted battery box? Not sure it would fit there on the passenger side. Thinking exhaust. Does it mount inside or outside frame rails?

 

[refried]

Any reason not to have both, A second battery and a long cable to the back? I have two house batteries in the back of my van (4D, group 31), With a group 27 starting battery under the hood. I also have a 2/0 wire wire running to the back with a switch to parallel them in case the starting battery ever goes dead.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Any pics of the frame mounted battery box? Not sure it would fit there on the passenger side. Thinking exhaust. Does it mount inside or outside frame rails?

My exhaust runs inboard of the frame rails and the battery boxes are mounted outboard. Pics later.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

This is on a 2005 Dodge Quad Cab 2500 Hemi. The rear box has been in there for about seven or eight years, and the front one just went in last month. Both came from Summit Racing, and I then reinforced them with 1/8" angle iron, and added angle iron top and bottom to let me use some of the holes that were already in the frame. Both boxes "hang" from the top of the rail on 2x2 angle and are bolted through the frame with 1/2" Grade 8 bolts and backing plates on the back side. I was going to use crush sleeves but decided that would be too much overkill. My truck has factory skid plates and the mounts are sized to fit between the skid plate mounting points. I used AGMs so that I could lay the batteries on their sides to tuck them up as high as possible for protection. Both batteries are Optima Blue Dual Purpose 34M. The small wires you see are for the Nat Luna battery monitors and the refrigerator power supply.

 

[rb70383]

Thank you for the pics. So since they "hang" the top mounts must be U shaped, that go over the frame?

 

[Ducky's Dad]

So since they "hang" the top mounts must be U shaped, that go over the frame?

Top mounts are simple 2x2 angle welded to the prefab boxes from Summit Racing. The weight of the batteries hangs from the angle that rides on top of the frame rail, and the whole assembly is bolted through the frame rails with 1/2" grade 8 bolts, with backing plates on the other side instead of crush sleeves. A u-shaped section would be even more overkill than I already have and would make R&Ring the batteries a real pain (maybe impossible). In my installation the batteries are so tight to the cab floor that I install the battery into the box and then roll the whole assembly under the truck on a hydraulic floor jack and then raise it into place so that I can slide the top angle onto the frame while the weight is still supported by the jack. I wanted the batteries as high as possible to minimize potential trail damage. So far, so good.