Recovery Ring Double Rigging

[Metcalf]

Is it anodized?

No, it is not really needed on this part in my opinion. It adds a significant amount of cost without a ton of overall benefit on a part that isn't going to live outside full time. I prefer the polished surface of 6061-T6 aluminum with a light wax coating to make inspection and minor repairs over the life of the part easier.

 

[Alloy]

No, it is not really needed on this part in my opinion. It adds a significant amount of cost without a ton of overall benefit on a part that isn't going to live outside full time. I prefer the polished surface of 6061-T6 aluminum with a light wax coating to make inspection and minor repairs over the life of the part easier.

6061 isn't very durable. Especially if you add a little dirt to the mix.

Aluminum Oxide (anodizing) is on of the hardest materials = less friction (heat) so less wear and tear on the lines.

If you happen to put bare aluminum away with any wet gear it will corrode

 

[Metcalf]

6061 isn't very durable. Especially if you add a little dirt to the mix.

Aluminum Oxide (anodizing) is on of the hardest materials = less friction (heat) so less wear and tear on the lines.

If you happen to put bare aluminum away with any wet gear it will corrode

6061-T6 is plenty durable for this application. I have uncoated rings that are years old that have gone through abusive testing and show little to no wear. Running the ring the 'normal' direction, the ring spins with the winch rope, so no sliding surfaces if the winch rope pics up 'grit'. The 'grit' wear is isolated to the soft shackle interface surface and it relatively self cleaning. Double rigging the ring hasn't shown any additional accelerated wear either.....and is a low use case generally speaking ( value added vs common practice )

Aluminum Oxide is indeed hard ( and naturally will form on an aluminum part over time anyways) but it isn't necessarily the smoothest of finishes depending on substrate prep ( such as vibration tumbling depending on the media used. ) . A polished metal surface will commonly have lower friction with an UHMWPE fiber. PTFE impregnated hardcoat also had no discernable advantage with UHMWPE.

An uncoated part is easier to repair WHEN something happens to the part. A light wax coating during inspection is quick and easy. Take care of your gear and it will take care of you. Fixing small dents and dings with a thick Type III coating becomes much more work, and yes, a hardcoat part will still need touched up every so often.

As I mentioned, you can have my ring coated if you think it is required. My ring is still one of the lowest price points on the market. If you need 100 of them I would be more than happy to run a batch through the coaters. My general rule of thumb is that if the part lives outside full time I will coat it....if not, I save the cost and forward that value to my customers.

 

[Alloy]

6061-T6 is plenty durable for this application. I have uncoated rings that are years old that have gone through abusive testing and show little to no wear. Running the ring the 'normal' direction, the ring spins with the winch rope, so no sliding surfaces if the winch rope pics up 'grit'. The 'grit' wear is isolated to the soft shackle interface surface and it relatively self cleaning. Double rigging the ring hasn't shown any additional accelerated wear either.....and is a low use case generally speaking ( value added vs common practice )

Aluminum Oxide is indeed hard ( and naturally will form on an aluminum part over time anyways) but it isn't necessarily the smoothest of finishes depending on substrate prep ( such as vibration tumbling depending on the media used. ) . A polished metal surface will commonly have lower friction with an UHMWPE fiber. PTFE impregnated hardcoat also had no discernable advantage with UHMWPE.

An uncoated part is easier to repair WHEN something happens to the part. A light wax coating during inspection is quick and easy. Take care of your gear and it will take care of you. Fixing small dents and dings with a thick Type III coating becomes much more work, and yes, a hardcoat part will still need touched up every so often.

As I mentioned, you can have my ring coated if you think it is required. My ring is still one of the lowest price points on the market. If you need 100 of them I would be more than happy to run a batch through the coaters. My general rule of thumb is that if the part lives outside full time I will coat it....if not, I save the cost and forward that value to my customers.

In the marine world you won't find a ring that isn't hard anodized because the anodizing cost is paid back 1000X on the life of the ring and more importantly the line.

Sailing Blocks & Sailboat Block Hardware | Fisheries Supply

Equip yourself with sailboat blocks from Fisheries Supply. Shop products from top brands like Harken, Ronstan, Schaefer, Lewmar, Garhauer, Davey & Co., and more.

www.fisheriessupply.com

Edit: You're web store shows an anodized ring.

 

[Metcalf]

In the marine world you won't find a ring that isn't hard anodized because the anodizing cost is paid back 1000X on the life of the ring and more importantly the line.

Sailing Blocks & Sailboat Block Hardware | Fisheries Supply

Equip yourself with sailboat blocks from Fisheries Supply. Shop products from top brands like Harken, Ronstan, Schaefer, Lewmar, Garhauer, Davey & Co., and more.

www.fisheriessupply.com

Edit: You're web store shows an anodized ring.
View attachment 780744

That was my older 'off the shelf' ring solution before I started producing my own....( and it was rather thin standard anodizing ( because its 'blue' ) that was used to allow the company producing the ring to mark and brand their product )

I've tested dozen of rings and ring designs along my journey of using, making, and tweaking the recovery ring concept over the last 4-5 years. I've yet to have a bare aluminum ring show any signs of corrosion issues. As I mentioned before, these are not living out on a boat full time in the ocean in salt water. This is a device that lives in a nice little bag ( included in my kit) until it is used in the recreational market. I've also yet to have a recovery ring bare or anodized 'wear out' because of 'grit' or friction issues. I have hundreds of my kits out in the world.

Anodizing does nothing for the 'life of the line', in many cases, it can actually HURT the surface texture over a light polish because of the substrate preparation for the coating process ( typically an abrasive media tumbling and 'acid' dip ). Anodizing is nothing more than the accelerated formation of the oxidizing layer of aluminum.....a process that naturally happens over time. That forced oxidization comes with a cost that has to be forwarded onto the customer, and I don't believe in selling people things they don't really 'need' just to have it be a pretty color or put a ton of branding on it. Real Type III 'Hardcoat' anodizing is quite a bit more expensive than pretty color anodizing.....the only colors really available are Class 1 'clear' which comes out more like a titanium or light bronze, Dark grey, and Black. I know all this, because my new HOSS fairlead is Type III, Class 1, Hardcoated....because that part is intended to live full time on the front of a vehicle. The process is not cheap or easy. I have uncoated prototype HOSS fairleads in long term testing just to see what the difference ACTUALLY is going to be. Is it really going to be worth the 25-30% extra part cost?

Winch 'HOSS' Hawse Fairlead

Note: Pre-buy supporter pricing at over 20% off final retail price available until the 1st commercial batch is delivered in late May 2023. If you are purchasing at this sale price, your order will ship early June. This new hawse fairlead adds some very important features to the well established...

brennans-garage.com

If you think you HAVE to have an anodized ring, there are plenty of options on the market. Just be aware that anything that is a pretty color is just a rather thin coating that is generally only there for branding and marketing. True 'hardcoat' will be this bronze, dark grey, or black only. ( and they make black in both to make it even more confusing ).

 

[Alloy]

That was my older 'off the shelf' ring solution before I started producing my own....( and it was rather thin standard anodizing ( because its 'blue' ) that was used to allow the company producing the ring to mark and brand their product )

I've tested dozen of rings and ring designs along my journey of using, making, and tweaking the recovery ring concept over the last 4-5 years. I've yet to have a bare aluminum ring show any signs of corrosion issues. As I mentioned before, these are not living out on a boat full time in the ocean in salt water. This is a device that lives in a nice little bag ( included in my kit) until it is used in the recreational market. I've also yet to have a recovery ring bare or anodized 'wear out' because of 'grit' or friction issues. I have hundreds of my kits out in the world.

Anodizing does nothing for the 'life of the line', in many cases, it can actually HURT the surface texture over a light polish because of the substrate preparation for the coating process ( typically an abrasive media tumbling and 'acid' dip ). Anodizing is nothing more than the accelerated formation of the oxidizing layer of aluminum.....a process that naturally happens over time. That forced oxidization comes with a cost that has to be forwarded onto the customer, and I don't believe in selling people things they don't really 'need' just to have it be a pretty color or put a ton of branding on it. Real Type III 'Hardcoat' anodizing is quite a bit more expensive than pretty color anodizing.....the only colors really available are Class 1 'clear' which comes out more like a titanium or light bronze, Dark grey, and Black. I know all this, because my new HOSS fairlead is Type III, Class 1, Hardcoated....because that part is intended to live full time on the front of a vehicle. The process is not cheap or easy. I have uncoated prototype HOSS fairleads in long term testing just to see what the difference ACTUALLY is going to be. Is it really going to be worth the 25-30% extra part cost?

View attachment 780745View attachment 780746

Winch 'HOSS' Hawse Fairlead

Note: Pre-buy supporter pricing at over 20% off final retail price available until the 1st commercial batch is delivered in late May 2023. If you are purchasing at this sale price, your order will ship early June. This new hawse fairlead adds some very important features to the well established...

brennans-garage.com

If you think you HAVE to have an anodized ring, there are plenty of options on the market. Just be aware that anything that is a pretty color is just a rather thin coating that is generally only there for branding and marketing. True 'hardcoat' will be this bronze, dark grey, or black only. ( and they make black in both to make it even more confusing ).

I've worked with aluminum and DCF (up to 1 1/2") for decades. Anodized aluminum is more durable, causes less friction/wear and tear. Bare aluminum will work for people that may use a device 3 times with brand (no dirt) new DFC but more than that it's not worth the cost savings.

The image below is from this page.

Winch Fairleads: How to Pick the Best One

There are so many winch fairleads out there! We sort through the different types to show you the best ones for steel or synthetic winch lines.

www.roundforge.com

 

[Metcalf]

it seems you are discussing a technique for achieving a 4-5:1 mechanical advantage using double-rigged recovery rings. This technique involves using two recovery rings with increased load capacity soft shackles to create a powerful force multiplication system without the need for a winch extension. While this technique may offer advantages in situations where additional force is required or winch power is limited, it's important to ensure safety and proper usage. It's recommended to refer to the specific instructions, guidelines, or videos provided by reputable sources to understand and implement this technique correctly.

That is why the first line of the post is 'Let's talk about the concept of being able to double rig recovery rings for 4-5:1 mechanical advantage'. I also mentioned the general concerns you listed. I thought that was pretty clear this was going to be a general discussion about it and an opportunity for people to ask and answer questions......

 

[Metcalf]

I've worked with aluminum and DCF (up to 1 1/2") for decades. Anodized aluminum is more durable, causes less friction/wear and tear. Bare aluminum will work for people that may use a device 3 times with brand (no dirt) new DFC but more than that it's not worth the cost savings.

The image below is from this page.

Winch Fairleads: How to Pick the Best One

There are so many winch fairleads out there! We sort through the different types to show you the best ones for steel or synthetic winch lines.

www.roundforge.com

View attachment 781298

......again......anodizing has no 'friction' advantages over polished aluminum. I've tested both extensively. If you have some data you would like to share, I would love to see it. A gritty rope 'could' wear bare aluminum faster, but again.....the winch rope is not generally going to be a sliding mate in this application unless you are center rigging....and again, that is a low use case. The 'polished' example above is also a cast part. That material could be different than the 6061-T6 I use in my parts.

I'd love to see some pictures of worn out polished aluminum gear in this market if you have them. I still have the original cheap cast aluminum hawse from my old jeep that is 10+ years old now, and I winch WAY more than most people in the recreational market. It shows very little to no rope wear....rock impacts where a bigger issue. I still have my original first article Recovery Ring of my own design, it has dozens and dozen of test pulls.....no discernable wear. I've got hundreds of both of my Recovery Ring packages out in the world also, with no known issues. I'll keep collecting data points. If enough people ask for a hardcoat version, I am more than happy to do that, but with a batch size of over a hundred units, i'll wait for a few more.

As I mentioned before, there is nothing preventing someone from coating one of my polished rings either. The light wax coating will be removed in any decent shops dip process.

 

[Alloy]

......again......anodizing has no 'friction' advantages over polished aluminum. I've tested both extensively. If you have some data you would like to share, I would love to see it. A gritty rope 'could' wear bare aluminum faster, but again.....the winch rope is not generally going to be a sliding mate in this application unless you are center rigging....and again, that is a low use case. The 'polished' example above is also a cast part. That material could be different than the 6061-T6 I use in my parts.

I'd love to see some pictures of worn out polished aluminum gear in this market if you have them. I still have the original cheap cast aluminum hawse from my old jeep that is 10+ years old now, and I winch WAY more than most people in the recreational market. It shows very little to no rope wear....rock impacts where a bigger issue. I still have my original first article Recovery Ring of my own design, it has dozens and dozen of test pulls.....no discernable wear. I've got hundreds of both of my Recovery Ring packages out in the world also, with no known issues. I'll keep collecting data points. If enough people ask for a hardcoat version, I am more than happy to do that, but with a batch size of over a hundred units, i'll wait for a few more.

As I mentioned before, there is nothing preventing someone from coating one of my polished rings either. The light wax coating will be removed in any decent shops dip process.

Does it take the same amount of effort to file bare aluminum and hard anodized? Any differnce will be reflected in the wear of the materials.

Each time you make a point there's a "could", "generally", "unless". Things people may want to know so they can decided the best way to spend their money. Anodizing or not is your choice but you shouldn't tell people the only difference is corrosion resistance.

 

[Metcalf]

Does it take the same amount of effort to file bare aluminum and hard anodized? Any differnce will be reflected in the wear of the materials.

Each time you make a point there's a "could", "generally", "unless". Things people may want to know so they can decided the best way to spend their money. Anodizing or not is your choice but you shouldn't tell people the only difference is corrosion resistance.

You are conflating a HARD finish with being a SMOOTH surface.

I've been very clear on the science behind it all in past posts....and I will try to sum it up again for you and those following along.

Anodizing of aluminum is the rapid acceleration of the NATURAL formation of the oxide layer on the surface. The initial oxide layer forms quite quickly when exposed to oxygen....and will reform continuously. This is one of the reasons weld prep is so critical on aluminum.

You shouldn't be telling people that anodizing reduces 'friction' when it doesn't. It actually will have the opposite effect as the formation of the oxide crystal structure will change the finish ( and dimensions ) of the part (especially thicker 'hardcoat'). When using a hardcoat process you typically lose about two steps in surface finish 'smoothness' to the formation of those oxide crystal structures, say from an Ra 16 and it will be a 32 or even a 64 when done. I just went through this with my HOSS Fairlead....and am still not honestly convinced it was worth all the extra cost and headache. I had to pay special attention to the micro stepping done on the large front radius to keep this problem managed through the coating process.

I'm not making anyone buy my parts, and yet they are selling very well. I've never had an SSRA, Recovery Ring, or HOSS come back because of wear issues....with both coated and uncoated being well represented in the numbers. I'd make a special hardcoat version of my ring or the SSRA device ( in quantity ) if someone thinks that it is 'critical' for their uses, but I have yet to see that use case come about. The majority of anodizing done in this industry is to make branding easier.

To your point about 'which is easier to file', I totally agree. A 'hard' finish is harder.....it is also harder to maintain when it gets damaged and it still will just as often as uncoated in my experience. It is also harder to match the surface finish when you do perform a repair. Those are some of the reasons I actually recommend non-coated parts by and large.

I'd still love to see some pictures of worn out bare or polished aluminum products in the recovery gear market if you or anyone else has them.

 

[Alloy]

You are conflating a HARD finish with being a SMOOTH surface.

I've been very clear on the science behind it all in past posts....and I will try to sum it up again for you and those following along.

Anodizing of aluminum is the rapid acceleration of the NATURAL formation of the oxide layer on the surface. The initial oxide layer forms quite quickly when exposed to oxygen....and will reform continuously. This is one of the reasons weld prep is so critical on aluminum.

You shouldn't be telling people that anodizing reduces 'friction' when it doesn't. It actually will have the opposite effect as the formation of the oxide crystal structure will change the finish ( and dimensions ) of the part (especially thicker 'hardcoat'). When using a hardcoat process you typically lose about two steps in surface finish 'smoothness' to the formation of those oxide crystal structures, say from an Ra 16 and it will be a 32 or even a 64 when done. I just went through this with my HOSS Fairlead....and am still not honestly convinced it was worth all the extra cost and headache. I had to pay special attention to the micro stepping done on the large front radius to keep this problem managed through the coating process.

I'm not making anyone buy my parts, and yet they are selling very well. I've never had an SSRA, Recovery Ring, or HOSS come back because of wear issues....with both coated and uncoated being well represented in the numbers. I'd make a special hardcoat version of my ring or the SSRA device ( in quantity ) if someone thinks that it is 'critical' for their uses, but I have yet to see that use case come about. The majority of anodizing done in this industry is to make branding easier.

To your point about 'which is easier to file', I totally agree. A 'hard' finish is harder.....it is also harder to maintain when it gets damaged and it still will just as often as uncoated in my experience. It is also harder to match the surface finish when you do perform a repair. Those are some of the reasons I actually recommend non-coated parts by and large.

I'd still love to see some pictures of worn out bare or polished aluminum products in the recovery gear market if you or anyone else has them.

I've had parts anodized so I'm aware of the proces and challenges of surface prep. After anodizing due to the added thickness threaded holes where chased with a tap to reduce galling.

I never noticed the surface changing from RA16 (220grit) RA 32 (180grit).....less than a micron which a line would quickly remove the high points from.


The quote below is from here

Anodizing: Definition, Importance, and Different Types

Learn more about this finishing process and the different types that are used in manufacturing.

www.xometry.com

What is the Importance of Anodizing?​

Anodizing provides many key benefits to metals. The most important benefits are increased wear resistance, increased corrosion protection, and aesthetic improvements. Anodizing creates a thin layer of oxide on the surface of a metal, which is much more resistant to wear and tear, as well as protecting against corrosion. The surface created by the anodizing process also makes metals more suitable for dyeing and painting, allowing metal surfaces to be transformed into a variety of colors. Unlike other metallic finishes, anodizing allows the metal to retain its metallic appearance.



The quote below is from here

Anodizing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sulfuric acid (Type II & III)​

Sulfuric acid is the most widely used solution to produce an anodized coating. Coatings of moderate thickness 1.8 μm to 25 μm (0.00007" to 0.001")[17] are known as Type II in North America, as named by MIL-A-8625, while coatings thicker than 25 μm (0.001") are known as Type III, hard-coat, hard anodizing, or engineered anodizing. Very thin coatings similar to those produced by chromic anodizing are known as Type IIB. Thick coatings require more process control,[6] and are produced in a refrigerated tank near the freezing point of water with higher voltages than the thinner coatings. Hard anodizing can be made between 13 and 150 μm (0.0005" to 0.006") thick. Anodizing thickness increases wear resistance, corrosion resistance, ability to retain lubricants and PTFE coatings, and electrical and thermal insulation. Type III should not be dyed or sealed to maintain its wear resistance. Sealing will reduce this greatly. Standards for thin (Soft/Standard) sulfuric anodizing are given by MIL-A-8625 Types II and IIB, AMS 2471 (undyed), and AMS 2472 (dyed), BS EN ISO 12373/1 (decorative), BS 3987 (Architectural). Standards for thick sulphuric anodizing are given by MIL-A-8625 Type III, AMS 2469, BS ISO 10074, BS EN 2536 and the obsolete AMS 2468 and DEF STAN 03-26/1.

 

[Metcalf]

I've had parts anodized so I'm aware of the proces and challenges of surface prep. After anodizing due to the added thickness threaded holes where chased with a tap to reduce galling.

I never noticed the surface changing from RA16 (220grit) RA 32 (180grit).....less than a micron which a line would quickly remove the high points from.


The quote below is from here

Anodizing: Definition, Importance, and Different Types

Learn more about this finishing process and the different types that are used in manufacturing.

www.xometry.com

What is the Importance of Anodizing?​

Anodizing provides many key benefits to metals. The most important benefits are increased wear resistance, increased corrosion protection, and aesthetic improvements. Anodizing creates a thin layer of oxide on the surface of a metal, which is much more resistant to wear and tear, as well as protecting against corrosion. The surface created by the anodizing process also makes metals more suitable for dyeing and painting, allowing metal surfaces to be transformed into a variety of colors. Unlike other metallic finishes, anodizing allows the metal to retain its metallic appearance.



The quote below is from here

Anodizing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sulfuric acid (Type II & III)​

Sulfuric acid is the most widely used solution to produce an anodized coating. Coatings of moderate thickness 1.8 μm to 25 μm (0.00007" to 0.001")[17] are known as Type II in North America, as named by MIL-A-8625, while coatings thicker than 25 μm (0.001") are known as Type III, hard-coat, hard anodizing, or engineered anodizing. Very thin coatings similar to those produced by chromic anodizing are known as Type IIB. Thick coatings require more process control,[6] and are produced in a refrigerated tank near the freezing point of water with higher voltages than the thinner coatings. Hard anodizing can be made between 13 and 150 μm (0.0005" to 0.006") thick. Anodizing thickness increases wear resistance, corrosion resistance, ability to retain lubricants and PTFE coatings, and electrical and thermal insulation. Type III should not be dyed or sealed to maintain its wear resistance. Sealing will reduce this greatly. Standards for thin (Soft/Standard) sulfuric anodizing are given by MIL-A-8625 Types II and IIB, AMS 2471 (undyed), and AMS 2472 (dyed), BS EN ISO 12373/1 (decorative), BS 3987 (Architectural). Standards for thick sulphuric anodizing are given by MIL-A-8625 Type III, AMS 2469, BS ISO 10074, BS EN 2536 and the obsolete AMS 2468 and DEF STAN 03-26/1.

Here is a good industry article about some of the challenges with anodizing, and specifically hard coat.

Sizing up anodizing

An example of the surface of an anodized cylinder. Image courtesy of Brush Research Manufacturing

www.ctemag.com

They mention the surface texture changes, specifically with heavy hardcoat.....and is in line with what I see on my own parts.

As for surface finish, a hard coat anodized to 0.002" thickness generally results in an Ra two to three times the original bare metal finish. For example, a machined Ra of 16 easily can become 30 Ra or more after anodizing.

So we circle around again....is all the added cost REALLY worth it ( the customer is going to pay that ). I have made parts both ways, and I am noticing very little to no difference in performance and life across multiple products. I'm not going to feel good up-selling people something they don't really need. I still feel that anodizing in the recreational recovery gear market is done mostly for marketing....branding....and then maybe trying to SELL it as a performance gain ( which I just haven't seen evidence of it actually doing ).

 

[Metcalf]

A good video about the concept explained and clarified in further detail.

 

[DaveInDenver]

There's a point he makes about melt temperature that should be clarified. Critical temperature isn't melt but lower. From the Sampson Rope user's manual.

Rope User's Manual - Samson Rope

Maximizing safety and service life begins with selecting the right rope, managing its proper functionality through optimal handling practices and retiring it from service at the appropriate time.

samsonrope.com

 

[Metcalf]

There's a point he makes about melt temperature that should be clarified. Critical temperature isn't melt but lower. From the Sampson Rope user's manual.

Rope User's Manual - Samson Rope

Maximizing safety and service life begins with selecting the right rope, managing its proper functionality through optimal handling practices and retiring it from service at the appropriate time.

samsonrope.com

View attachment 783268

Agree with the temps being relevant, but also not anywhere near any kind of danger zone....

UHMWPE fibers are also an incredible insulator, every single fiber in the rope need to be above the critical temperature before we start to see a decrease in performance. Not just the fibers that are in contact with the ring....or the fibers you can measure on the outside of the rope that are sitting out in the sun.

Polyethene's are by nature a non-linear polymer, there is a time and load component factored into their strength. The 'critical temperature' listed above does not do any 'damage' to fibers, it is only the point at which the rope will no longer hold its full rated load past a certain amount of time....that time could be anything from 1hr to 50 years depending on what kind of creep performance the manufacturer is looking for in testing.

I do wish that Sampson wouldn't have used the word 'degradation' in the note.....as I do think that is completely false. As long as the rope is not loaded at high temps ( even approaching 300F ), there is no change in it's long term performance. Allow the rope to cool back down to a reasonable temp and it will meet MBS again. In HDPE, pipes are often joined using a thermal fusion process at over 400F and they retain all their mechanical strength once they cool back down to operating temp ( Mostly under 140F, but approaching 200F in some applications like PERT )

There are actually many companies using a heat-set process that actually improves the strength of the rope ultimately. That heat set process takes place in that temp range.