Risks of buying a new Grenadier

[Ozarker]

I have never seen a Grenadier, except in the Army, but I did ride in an Edsel!

 

[Stormhammer]

The largest risk is whether or not it will do well sales wise - and then value. Will they drop like a rock? Go up?

Today on the test drives they were talking about the dealers they partnered with have to be able to sell these without making a profit ( like your typical big store dealership where the sales ppl and managers get commissions ) for 2 years.

 

[Stormhammer]

I thought it was a bit strange too - seems like there is some sort of connection between EP and Inneos....bit silly if you ask me. Outside of payload capacity, which is a big deal to a few, I don't see much the Gren does better than a Bronco...

It would just be under domestic sub forum like with the Rangers etc. Same reason why you have "Jeep" and not "Wrangler" and "Grand Cherokee"

 

[nickw]

It would just be under domestic sub forum like with the Rangers etc. Same reason why you have "Jeep" and not "Wrangler" and "Grand Cherokee"

There is "Expedition Vehicle; Other" as a catch all for rigs like the Grenadier.

 

[Sid Post]

Maybe a little different perspective.
So, how easy is it to restore/keep running a 25 year old Suburban? Pretty easy, next to no electronics, huge manufacturer for 100+ years, and huge aftermarket supply.
How about a 60’s Studebaker or even an 80’s International Scout? Still doable, but better be creative on your problem solving.
Now, a single model from a new manufacturer, hummmm…..
I’m an old fart, and was on the Grenadier band wagon as a replacement for my Land Rovers. However, as prices crept (we knew they would, but to what extent) and electronics (most proprietary) expanded, my comfort level weaned.
My solution- base model Bronco with Squash package. So far loving it (2.3/7-speed) and likely will finally start liquidation of my vehicles. New and under warranty, I drive minimal miles these days, so if I get 20 years, I’ll be 90, and likely still not having to wrench on it!! Just drive, service and enjoy- Ford dealer on every corner…
Not trying to derail the thread in any way, but with age comes new perspectives ;-)

Very good points overall. In my case, I have been thinking about a Ford 1-ton pickup for similar reasons. However, the Grenadier is a tougher vehicle for Overlanding type adventures from the factory. Coil springs, 3 locking diffs, and similar things really do put it into a different class.

To me, it seems to fit the older Land Rover and MB G-Wagen design and ethos. The axles are not going to be as easy to source in the USA than say a Dana Spicer or Sterling but, they come from a long-term manufacturer of this type of component. The engine and transmission should be a pretty simple repair, fix, or replacement from any BMW dealership or similar independent shop.

In terms of major repairs from a crash or rollover, things like doors and body panels will likely be problematic for the most part. However, Styer-Puch has been making G-Wagen's a very long time and those don't seem to suffer from a lot part availability issues and, I suspect the Grenadier is pretty close to the pattern of the older MB G-Wagen before they became a chic yuppy status symbol.

That being said, I have not ruled out an older MB G-Wagen or possibly a good Toyota Land Cruiser (but not likely at today's prices). Thanks to huge price increases in the past 5 years, a MB Unimog is really unlikely at this point. In the USA, I would also tend to think a Unimog would be just as hard or even harder to repair than a Grenadier later in life.

With a 'loaded' price in the low to mid $80K range (USA), I personally think it is priced well against old Land Cruisers and G-Wagens.

 

[Sid Post]

All great points and thanks for the edification. But I'll believe the whole "ducttape and chewing gum" repair thing once they make it through DOT and EPA/CARB. The BMW engine alone probably has dozens of sensors, and was one of the things that lost me. Chevy LS would have been a much better path in North America. Is the OS going to be Ubuntu or open sourced so that it can be hacked and maintained if Ineos doesn't exist before the warranty expires? I'm telling you one off car companies have not fared we'll historically. So I'm personally out for a half decade or so. YMMV of course. BUT I'd love a test drive when you get yours! ??

This isn't a Tucker or Tesla! Not really a Volvo either!

What the world really needs and is crying out for IMHO, is a modern version of the MB G-Wagen, Land Rover Defender, and Toyota Landcruiser of yesteryear updated to modern standards (not shopping malls and trendy retail districts)! If they hit the projected ~$82K (USD) cost as I have spec'ed mine, I would be seriously considering one. A factory Ford F-350 without the Overlanding stuff and running gear is going to cost more than that today! And a Lexus "Land Cruiser" gently used is going to cost at least that much when equipped reasonably for overlanding.

 

[Sid Post]

Coming from a lifetime of automotive/mechanical engineering the biggest unknown for him is the axles made by whoever it is that makes them, and that's just because he is unfamiliar with them.

Carraro, which I think is Italian but might be Polish. In any case, I have their axle on the front of my Massey Ferguson tractor! It is stupendously good! Carraro axles are in wide use in things like compact tractors and has a long history of great performance and reliability.

 

[Sid Post]

Without the first gen buyers taking the risk this vehicle will never survive. So we can poo poo all we want about parts availabilities. This vehicle is in the price range of people who can afford a third vehicle in the driveway and if they have to wait a week for a sensor to arrive it's not a huge deal. I'm just happy that Canada is included.

At the end of the day this is the vehicle overlanders have been crying for, and hopefully enough of us will pony up.

EXACTLY! This will be a lot better IMHO than a Lexus SUV for overlanding.

 

[nickw]

Very good points overall. In my case, I have been thinking about a Ford 1-ton pickup for similar reasons. However, the Grenadier is a tougher vehicle for Overlanding type adventures from the factory. Coil springs, 3 locking diffs, and similar things really do put it into a different class.

To me, it seems to fit the older Land Rover and MB G-Wagen design and ethos. The axles are not going to be as easy to source in the USA than say a Dana Spicer or Sterling but, they come from a long-term manufacturer of this type of component. The engine and transmission should be a pretty simple repair, fix, or replacement from any BMW dealership or similar independent shop.

In terms of major repairs from a crash or rollover, things like doors and body panels will likely be problematic for the most part. However, Styer-Puch has been making G-Wagen's a very long time and those don't seem to suffer from a lot part availability issues and, I suspect the Grenadier is pretty close to the pattern of the older MB G-Wagen before they became a chic yuppy status symbol.

That being said, I have not ruled out an older MB G-Wagen or possibly a good Toyota Land Cruiser (but not likely at today's prices). Thanks to huge price increases in the past 5 years, a MB Unimog is really unlikely at this point. In the USA, I would also tend to think a Unimog would be just as hard or even harder to repair than a Grenadier later in life.

With a 'loaded' price in the low to mid $80K range (USA), I personally think it is priced well against old Land Cruisers and G-Wagens.

This isn't a Tucker or Tesla! Not really a Volvo either!

What the world really needs and is crying out for IMHO, is a modern version of the MB G-Wagen, Land Rover Defender, and Toyota Landcruiser of yesteryear updated to modern standards (not shopping malls and trendy retail districts)! If they hit the projected ~$82K (USD) cost as I have spec'ed mine, I would be seriously considering one. A factory Ford F-350 without the Overlanding stuff and running gear is going to cost more than that today! And a Lexus "Land Cruiser" gently used is going to cost at least that much when equipped reasonably for overlanding.

Carraro, which I think is Italian but might be Polish. In any case, I have their axle on the front of my Massey Ferguson tractor! It is stupendously good! Carraro axles are in wide use in things like compact tractors and has a long history of great performance and reliability.

EXACTLY! This will be a lot better IMHO than a Lexus SUV for overlanding.

I think for all intents and purposes a modern 1T, be it F350 or Ram3500, is every bit the overlanding vehicle for a fraction of the price from a practical perspective....you don't really need lockers and all the other offroad accoutrements for it to be effective. A base gas 1T pickup with a good shell of comparable build is going to be 10-15k less than a Gren + you get parts availability, heavier duty platform and a more simple rig overall...you are stuck with a pickup, but that has trade-offs.

Re; Unimog, a Ram3500 + AEV build-out is a pretty damn good stand in for a Mog for half the price.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I think for all intents and purposes a modern 1T, be it F350 or Ram3500, is every bit the overlanding vehicle for a fraction of the price from a practical perspective....you don't really need lockers and all the other offroad accoutrements for it to be effective. A base gas 1T pickup with a good shell of comparable build is going to be 10-15k less than a Gren + you get parts availability, heavier duty platform and a more simple rig overall...you are stuck with a pickup, but that has trade-offs.

Re; Unimog, a Ram3500 + AEV build-out is a pretty damn good stand in for a Mog for half the price.

Except for the footprint - the HD trucks you described are a lot less tidy in terms of their overall size. The gren is "mid-sized size" with some pretty HD features.

But, give me a Rubicon with an upgrade to 7,000 Lbs GVM (thus giving about an 1800lbs payload based on my old JK's numbers) and it comes down to reliability/longevity, which is TBD on the Gren but at least a known quantity on the jeep. Chrysler are you listening? Give us a HDPP in the Wrangler please and thanks!

 

[nickw]

Except for the footprint - the HD trucks you described are a lot less tidy in terms of their overall size. The gren is "mid-sized size" with some pretty HD features.

But, give me a Rubicon with an upgrade to 7,000 Lbs GVM (thus giving about an 1800lbs payload based on my old JK's numbers) and it comes down to reliability/longevity, which is TBD on the Gren but at least a known quantity on the jeep. Chrysler are you listening? Give us a HDPP in the Wrangler please and thanks!

If Jeep is watching, they should do absolutely that in the US. I know they had a military one in the last 10 years that had HD axles and a diesel that other countries got that we didn't, but they could and would 100% eat into "commercial" sales like the Gren is aiming at with exactly what you suggest....

If you believe this website (I am sceptical) looks like the "High Tide" version is 1700+ although the payload vs curb weight doesn't quite add up for me:

Jeep Wrangler Payload (2014 - 2023): Your Comprehensive Guide

Max your hauling capabilities with the right trim Jeep Wrangler. See our data of payload by model year to see which options have the most capacity.

www.autopadre.com

 

[Sid Post]

The diesel Jeeps had issues with USA pollution controls and EPA rules in general. Foreign nations generally regulate diesel engines differently than the USA too.

 

[nickw]

The diesel Jeeps had issues with USA pollution controls and EPA rules in general. Foreign nations generally regulate diesel engines differently than the USA too.

The rest of the jeep was built to a higher standard too, I think it came with a D60 rear axle OEM:

Mopar Performance Military Spec Rear Dana 60 Axle Assembly for 07-17 Jeep Wrangler JK

Available exclusively from Mopar Performance - Jeep Wrangler military-grade front and rear axle assemblies for Jeep Wranglers. These tough, genuine Jeep assemblies are designed for the military Wrangler (J8) and provide the next level of off-road performance for Wranglers.

www.quadratec.com

 

[Sid Post]

The rest of the jeep was built to a higher standard too, I think it came with a D60 rear axle OEM:

Mopar Performance Military Spec Rear Dana 60 Axle Assembly for 07-17 Jeep Wrangler JK

Available exclusively from Mopar Performance - Jeep Wrangler military-grade front and rear axle assemblies for Jeep Wranglers. These tough, genuine Jeep assemblies are designed for the military Wrangler (J8) and provide the next level of off-road performance for Wranglers.

www.quadratec.com

Diesel engines are typically heavier than similar gasoline engines so, suspensions, brakes, axles, etc. are generally heavier too.

I think the Jeep/Cherokee used the VM Motori engine out of Italy but, could be mistaken.

 

[Paddler Ed]

I think the Jeep/Cherokee used the VM Motori engine out of Italy but, could be mistaken.

VM at first in the XJ Cherokee (as did Land Rover with the RRC in the 1980s), and then 5 or 6 cylinder Mercedes in the time of Daimler-Chrysler for the WJ/WK. Not sure who they're using now.