RTT Vs Ground tents

Why are all the rtt made with heavy canvas? and the ground tents with lighter materials I know you have carry the ground tents back packers but that doesn't explain why all RTT are canvas . Couldn't some one use a ground tent as a RTT or make on using an rtt pattern?
 

Lucky j

Explorer
I like the heavy canvas of my RTT and the light material of my ground tents.

With that material, the RTT feels more strurdy. Not sure it would feel the same with light nylon. The rain fly is nylon. Those that count?
 

JIMBO

Expedition Leader
:sombrero: My TEPUI is top quality "ripstop" fabric and uses nylon for the rain fly-

I wouldn't want it heavier, like canvas, or lighter like all nylon, then it wouldn't be structurally sturdy and be able to withstand heavy winds, especially at it's height-

it operates using aluminum rods that use a fulcrum point that's the hinge for half the tent and the fabric needs to be flexible /maneuverable/strong and not take "SETS"--hence-the material they use-

If you used the light nylon as used in ground tents--the nylon/RTT wouldn't have the weight/structural strength/water shedding and tensile strength needed for flaps/windows/internal pockets/external zippered flaps/weather enduring construction-

Good luck

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: m JIMBO
 

toymaster

Explorer
An RTT is a bed on a fold out frame. They are usually made with higher quality canvas because that is just how it is. There are a lot of ones made in china from old pattens that use thinner materials, I have one.

Like I said, an RTT is not just a tent. It is a complete bed and frame covered with a tent. Having a tent high has its own virtues but I think you are getting location confused with design. RTT weight between 100lbs and 200lbs while a tent can be 5 lbs.
 

JIMBO

Expedition Leader
:sombrero: They both have pros/cons-


why ? I don't see the difference between a tent on the ground and a tent on a roof.

A ground tent has entry convenience/room for several people/games/eats/storage during day-but usually for a larger tent is bulky/takes time to set-up/tear down/storage-/suffers from ground predators/temperatures/run-offs-while

An RTT Is already stored outta the way/sets up in less than a minute/ is above ground and has more safety from predators/never run-offs/ ground temp doesn't affect/teardown in less than 5 minutes--and doesn't require cleanup after each use !

I have both and use both when camping and prefer sleeping in the RTT/games in the ground tent, which also takes 1 minute to setup--feel more secure and away from "THINGS" in the RTT-

Whatever-

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO
 
NO I get it I know what an RTT tent is. I am just not fully grasping why an rtt has to be 10 inches thick with heavy duty canvas and weigh 100 plus pounds, IT seems to me that a good back packing tent which is very light < 5 lbs and can withstand a lot of wind could be used in the rtt saving weigh and height ( wind resistance) It would of course have to have a decent attachment frame to attach it to the vehicle and a pad of some sort, but I am just not getting why this isn't done. If I had money to throw around I would design them and build and market them just my thoughts
 

Davev1954

Supporting Grouch
Mr jeep or Tacoma- have you spent time with a RTT? Not online or pictures. Anyone that has one will be glad to show you where most of the weight is. It's not in the tent material - but in the base, hinges, heavier poles, mattress (yea baby), hardware and ladder. However the tent material in mine is heavier than most of my ground tents.

So unless you just want to throw your REI tent on your roof and climb up on your hood- you will start adding weight fast. Don't take this as a negative- new designs are good. Just get all the considerations.
 

toymaster

Explorer
I hear you, there are many threads on this forum with people with the same thoughts. A few have made attempts and/or mounted different types of tents/cots to a roof.

An RTT has to be 10" thick because it is a bed not a tent. You have 3 inches of mattress, ~1" of floor/frame, plus tent material to keep the weather off you with it's own necessary frame adding another 2". All this is folded over for traveling: 3 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 10. Also, you have to have a ladder, guess what, it get folded and rides on top of the 10".
 

ducktapeguy

Adventurer
NO I get it I know what an RTT tent is. I am just not fully grasping why an rtt has to be 10 inches thick with heavy duty canvas and weigh 100 plus pounds, IT seems to me that a good back packing tent which is very light < 5 lbs and can withstand a lot of wind could be used in the rtt saving weigh and height ( wind resistance) It would of course have to have a decent attachment frame to attach it to the vehicle and a pad of some sort, but I am just not getting why this isn't done. If I had money to throw around I would design them and build and market them just my thoughts

I had the exact same thoughts before buying my RTT. It is two very different products with different applications. It basically boils down to cost and durability. Yes, you can get an ultralight 2 person 3season backpacking tent that weighs in around 7lbs, but a fairer comparison to a RTT would be a 4 season canvas wall 3 person ground tent which is probably closer to 50 lbs.

I am estimating the majority of the weight on a RTT is the base itself, which a normal tent doesn't have. I would guess its probably 50 lbs or more. Don't forget it has to support the weight of up to 3 people with half of the weight cantilevered over the roof, so trying to shave weight here is either going to reduce strength to increase cost significantly by using expensive materials, and it's probably not going to feel very sturdy when you're 8 feet off the ground. The ladder itself on my tepui is probably another 10-15lbs and it also has to support a lot of weight. I have a cheap extension ladder in my attic that probably weighs half that and is about the same height, but I do not think it would hold up very well for tent use. So just setting up a platform you're already at 60lbs or more before you even add the tent.

The other item that adds a bit of weight is the travel cover. When I first got the tent I was surprised at how thick and heavy it was, again probably 10 lbs or so. A normal tent bag only has to hold the parts together and stays inside the car where its protected, but the travel cover is outside exposed to the elements and has to withstand the abrasion from random objects and flapping at 80mph. The rest of the weight of the tent is probably another 10 lbs for the mattress then the remainder is the material in tent itself. It's heavier because probably sees more stress than a normal ground tent due to the nature of the design.

So while you probably can build a lighter tent, and some companies have, it's always a compromise. The fact is there really isn't a compelling reason to save weight, it's on top of a car and not something you have to physically carry.. Even if you reduce the weight 20-30 lbs, it's probably not going to make much difference, and most people aren't going to want spend the extra money for that weight reduction
 

JimBiram

Adventurer
NO I get it I know what an RTT tent is. I am just not fully grasping why an rtt has to be 10 inches thick with heavy duty canvas and weigh 100 plus pounds, IT seems to me that a good back packing tent which is very light < 5 lbs and can withstand a lot of wind could be used in the rtt saving weigh and height ( wind resistance) It would of course have to have a decent attachment frame to attach it to the vehicle and a pad of some sort, but I am just not getting why this isn't done. If I had money to throw around I would design them and build and market them just my thoughts

It doesn't...check out www.trekking.fr for the Oasis tent. Sleeps two, and ultra lightweight. You have to have it shipped to the US, though. I have an early version and can put on and take off myself.
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Every Day is a Good Day Surfing...Some are just Better Than Others

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esmram

New member
Nemo?

Didn't I hear/see on one of these big sponsored trip reports (Expedition Portal or Overland Journal) that Nemo Equipment was R&D'ing something for a RTT application? I bet that would be pretty light and thin.
 

chuppie

Observer
If you have a Teupi Autana, it is actually 15.25 thick with the ladder. I know this because I have exactly .1" clearance to my garage door opening.
 

Mitch502

Explorer
I think it has to do with weights/durability. Sure, a typical rip stop material (like my tent I made myself) is plenty for the average person. I expect the material to last a few years of camping a few times-10 times a year. If it were a heavy canvas I feel like it would literally last for as long as I took care of it.

Practicality is there fore having a heavier material for a RTT...more sturdy, warmer, etc. Your weight is majority base material and supports I would think.


For $1500+ I better be getting a really nice tent, lol.
 

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