Sailing Thread

[Scott Brady]

Many of us on the forum have sailed or desire to. We have a wealth of resources on the subject including Brian (6 years living on a sailboat), Scott, Jonathan, etc.

I am starting to get the bug again, mostly as a result of my Baja trip, as a sailboat would provide excellent access to remote beaches and the calm (mostly), warm waters of the Gulf.

So, if you have a moment, share your experience and the type of boat you have used.

I am leaning towards this one:

For me, it will be something like this... (yes, they meant to do that)

http://www.sailworks.net/integral/index.htm
http://www.sailworks.net/imram/groenland/bateau.htm

 

[durango_60]

My childhood was spent on sailboats, and after living a few more years in the mountains I fully intend on returning to my sailing roots.

Growing up we had a few boats, a Hunter 30, Beneteau 42, as well as quite a few sailing dinghy's. My parents currently own a 45' cat that they keep in Belize. Every summer we would spend at least 3 consecutive weeks cruising in the gulf, lots of great memories. In college I really got into racing, mostly 420's and 470's, with the occasional laser regatta mixed in, even better memories...

Realistically I realize that with young kids the most I can expect to do in the next decade is the ocasional carribean charter, but someday I intend on a multi year livabord vagabond experience.

 

[cshontz]

A Pirate Looks At 30

I love sailing, but I haven't spent very much time at the helm compared to others - only enough to realize that my home is out there on the water. Right now, to have my own boat is a seemingly distant dream. I might realize this dream when I'm older, but it'd be nice to start sooner. If it were up to me, I'd sell the house and buy a boat

Growing up, I used to go day sailing with my parents on boats that they would charter for the weekend on the Chesapeake Bay. They were usually Pearsons or Catalinas between 30-35'. I greatly desire to recreate those experiences with my own family - but with a bit more adventure, of course.

I'm not sure if I would name my boat "Jennifer Marie" after my beautiful wife, or "Off Camber", to reflect my land-based interests. To name the boat after my wife would score some major brownie points.

 

[Brian McVickers]

Scott,
Those French built aluminum boats are great, they are one of the designs on my short list for our next ocean boat!
I have a few pictures of them out on the water, I'll see if I can find them.

Durango, I have several very good friends that we met while cruising who had taken their kids out of school and were home schooling while they traveled. We traveled with a few families for the better part of a year on and off and it was amazing to see how the kids would develop in an environment devoid of Britney Spears and two way pagers!


Chris, naming your boat is one of the best parts, especially if you design a logo for her!

Your thought of naming your boat after your wife reminded me of two boats I know of with very funny names:
One was called Michelle and a few years later after several hours in counseling and in court the owner had to modify the name and was able to keep costs down by simply purchasing and "X" and a "-" for X-Michelle!

The second is called FUJIMO. When given a choice of "it's either me or the boat" the owner lovingly renamed his boat FUJIMO which stands for "******* You Jane I'm Moving Out!"

 

[paulj]

For a while in the 1980s I had a Sea Pearl 21 from Marine Concepts
http://www.marine-concepts.com/sp21.html
It's kind of an overgrown canoe, 21' long, and only 5 1/2' wide. The hull shape is a cross between a whale boat and dorry, with enough of a flat bottom to rest comfortably on a beach. With leeboards it could sail on the proverbial wet handkerchef.

My biggest sail expedition involved driving from Chicago to Seattle, and then north to an inlet on the west coast of Vancouver Island. My tow car was a 2 dr Trooper II - the 4 cyl 2L engine was barely enough to tow the 600 lb boat.

We spent 5 days sailing and camping on Kyuquot Sound, barely enough time to get the hang of anchoring and beaching a boat in tidal waters. Covered space in the boat was about the same as 2 man tent, so most of the time we camped on shore. The return trip included two nights in Yellowstone, where it was easier to find a camp site on the shores of Yellowstone Lake than in the campgrounds.

I had 3 trailer flats on that trip. The first was on deep wet gravel on the island, the later ones on hot days crossing Montana and Wisconsin. Part of the problem was that the stock tires were the smallest, lightest duty ones.

While I have some good memories from the trip, it did leave me less than enthusiastic about trailers.

In recent years I've stuck with kayaks, with my current favorite being an Inova Safari inflatable that packs in a backpack. Paddle clothes and life jacket take up more space that the boat itself.

In the 80s there was a nice magazine called the Small Boat Journal. Some of the best reading in this had to do with the inovative designs of Ray Bolger.
http://www.mindspring.com/~councill/sbjournal/sbjindex.htm
Here's an intersting article from SBJ on boat tents
http://www.mindspring.com/~councill/sbjournal/tent/tent1.html
In retrospect, I probably should have gotten the West Wright Potter 15' instead of the Sea Pearl, in part, because it would have only taken up half of a 2 car garage.
http://www.mindspring.com/~councill/sbjournal/potter/potter1.html

A search on 'trailer sailor' turned up a forum with a section on the Sea of Cortez
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/cortez/index.cgi

paulj

 

[durango_60]

Durango, I have several very good friends that we met while cruising who had taken their kids out of school and were home schooling while they traveled. We traveled with a few families for the better part of a year on and off and it was amazing to see how the kids would develop in an environment devoid of Britney Spears and two way pagers!


QUOTE]


This is atually the exact reason that I want to plan a trip in about 10 years. My kids are 3 years and 8 months, and I would love to pull them out of the wonderful culture that are "tweens" create for themselves. I figure the worst that could happen is that they would hate me, but I'm sure they will hate me anyway so no big deal.

 

[bigreen505]

I'll chime in. Most of my limited in experience is in small boats, primarily 505s though it looks like I will be spending an increasing amount of time in a 49er and another skiff we are building that is nearing completion. I swore off leadmines a few years ago, though I think I could make an exception for cruising. A friend of mine has a Cal 20 that he keeps in the Gulf of Mexico for racing and cruising there along with an El Toro that he uses as a tender. This El Toro has a layup you would not believe, it can withstand getting dropped on reef rocks with two adults on board and can be used under sail or a 4hp motor (you wouldn't want to race this thing). I'm hoping to join him for a trip sometime, but they seem to have a habit of getting stuck in hurricanes and tropical storms. The boat seems to be solid up to about 65 kts, though with luck we will never know whether or not it can handle more.

 

[Pskhaat]

So, if you have a moment, share your experience and the type of boat you have used.

Well, I've never owned my own boat over 16', I have always needed to charter them. I have chartered San Juan's, Island Packet, tons of Beneteaus, Dufours, Catalinas, and many other mass production boats.

The only mass production boat I have enjoyed were the S series Beneteaus and the reason was they could point to wind quite well in comparison. My favorite boats though for long haul sailing have the following qualities:

* Skeg Rudder (don't want to loose your rudder from debris or c
* Deep Modified Keel (can also reduce your sailing grounds though)
* Aluminum (best compromise IMO)
* Cutter Rig (theoretically the best windward capability and ease of handle)
* Low Freeboard

Everything's a compromise. I very much appreciate a boat that can point though. We were sailing close hauled from Grenada to Bequia in high seas and high winds. We tore a jib and beat and got beat to wind horribly. Took us seemingly forever to claw our way into Bequia. One of the worst thrashings I've had. Problem was the Beneteau 461 (charter) a) could not point and would make massive leeway and b) we lost our foresail. So many sails would have been better off being able to simply not have as much leeway whilst close hauled. The deep keel and cutter rig with low freeboard seem to be the boats that point the best.

 

[Pskhaat]

This is atually the exact reason that I want to plan a trip in about 10 years. My kids are 3 years and 8 months,

Well Jonathan amazing how much we have in common. See my other sailing threads, but with children all of 2.5 years and -1 month, the goal is Florida/San Juan to Grenada (Venezuela if things are better then) and back, taking the kids out for a year of school.

Maybe Cole will still look up to Simon as he does now. I'll just make sure not to watch ``White Squal.'' It's almost 10 years exactly for us too. If you ever want to form a flotilla through some of the Islands, let us know...

 

[blupaddler]

I have only sailed on sabots up to 14' holders and capri's. Although, I have been wanting to either join a club or partner with some friends and get a small day sailer and/or catamaran. But what I REALLY want, is a sailing outrigger canoe, or just get a three-person canoe and rig a sail up for it.


Most of my time these days involves assisting capsized catamarans and various other sailboats that end up going on the rocks. Which is actually rather fun. I know a demented sense of humor.

 

[Scott Brady]

Most of my time these days involves assisting capsized catamarans and various other sailboats that end up going on the rocks. Which is actually rather fun. I know a demented sense of humor.

Does that happen often? Ouch..

 

[VikingVince]

Would some of you experienced sailors be willing to clue me in on the following issue/question? I'd appreciate it. I want a general idea of what I'd be getting into. THANKS, mates

Question: where on a difficulty scale of 1-10 does learning to sail/becoming a competent sailor fall?

Criteria: let's just assume the following so we're generally "on the same page" as far as the scale is concerned:
---DIFFICULT: learning to downhill ski, for example, and becoming competent (intermediate to advanced) would be 8-10 on the scale because it takes several seasons or years to get to this point if you're a complete beginner
----MEDIUM: water skiing, ocean kayaking...maybe 4-7, getting thru the surf zone, rolls, exits, re-entrys, paddling techniques etc...can become reasonably competent in several months. (I know this is arbitrary)
----EASY: anything where you can become reasonably competent in several weeks to a month

 

[durango_60]

Well VikingVince, that is a very difficult question to answer. I have seen different people progress at extraordinarily different paces. If you have experience kayaking or have spent other considerable time on the water I do beleive that will be a great help.

My best advice is to start out sailing dinghies. Even after years of sailing large boats growing up I never would have called myself a good sailor until I spent 4-5 years racing dinghies (small boats). I do not believe that there is a better way to learn the wind and the water than the intimacy of being on a singlehanded laser, or something else like it.

 

[Pskhaat]

anything where you can become reasonably competent in several weeks to a month

I would guess maybe quite a few weeks of reading everything you can on sailing: sail magazines, the author Patrick O'Brian, Chapmans: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1588160890/sr=1-3/qid=1138381280/ref=pd_bbs_3/102-8955698-3916936?%5Fencoding=UTF8 . The terminology & nomenclature so you know who Jack Aubrey is and you would know what something like this meant:

Aye, keep 'yer eye to starbr'd and weather off the quarter whilst you're abaft the mast; when the for'sail goes a'floggin' the boom'll take you o'er the gunwhale when she gybes for her new tack, and the stantion'll be all you got. Else the for'c'sle you go, but watch your toes on the windlass: we don't want to alight by the hook.
​

Translation:

Be careful of the wind changes off the right side when your in the back part of the boat, if that sail up front starts flapping in the wind, we may have to change course and that big horizontal metal piece holding the main sail out may swing around, hit you, and send you overboard and you will have to grab onto this metal peg to stay on. You can go to the front of the boat, but the winch that pulls up the anchor sticks up and often hurts toes and you may trigger it to drop the anchor into the water and that wouldn't be good while we're underway.
​

Then, I bet in one die-hard week on the water at something like a liveabourd ASA course and you'd be well ready enough to do some island hopping. http://www.american-sailing.com/index.php

 

[Brian McVickers]

Hey Vince!
It's very exciting that you are looking into learning how to sail.

Part of the answer to your question will be determined by what you consider to be "competent".
Competent could be that you are able to walk onto a boat and sail it efficiently as part of a crew, doing one or two specific jobs. It could be that you are able to rig and sail a particular boat from point A to point B and survive the journey with no damage to yourself or your boat. Or competent could mean that you could step onto any boat regardless of make or design and sail her as fast as possible, safely and with no damage to yourself or the boat. Like anything else you definition of competence will change as you learn more and progress in the sport. You can learn the basics of sailing very quickly but pretty much just takes time to accumulate the experience that will allow you to deal with the various situations that are possible.

Regarding difficulty, it's really about "tiller time" the amount of time you get to spend time on the boat sailing. If you do not have a boat of your own here is what I would suggest:

The inexpensive non-professional training route.- Find a friend with a boat and ask them to teach you how to sail.
Or
- Pack a small duffle with your lunch, sunscreen and raingear. Go to a local yacht club or sailing club very early on a Saturday or Sunday morning, 6am early, and walk the dock asking boats if they need any crew for the days races. Or go on Wednesday night for the "Beer Can" races and do the same. Note - this will be baptism by fire! These guys are going out to race and can get very competitive, don't ask too many questions, do what they tell you to do and absorb as much information as you can!

OR -- The professional training route:

1- Find a yacht club or sailing center, maybe even the park district, in your area that has an Adult Sailing Program. These programs will usually be based on the US Sailing learn to sail program curriculum http://www.ussailing.org/. These adult sailing programs are usually held in the evenings or on weekends to help coordinate with the common weekday work schedule. The time of the class will usually be spent 30% in the classroom and 70% on the water. Courses like this usually use two person dinghy's with a Jib and a Main sail. As the course and your ability level progress you may be able to jump into a single-handed boat like a laser but in the beginning the two person boats have the benefit of two people helping each other remember what they learned in the classroom.

2- After you have passed the course many programs will have their boats available for you to rent, do that as much as you want and can. Practice what they taught you, you will gain confidence very quickly.

3- Pack you duffle and walk the dock as mentioned in the first option above. With the knowledge and experience you gained from your adult sailing course the baptismal fire will feel more like bath water!

4- Try to sail on as many different boats as you can. If you get on a boat by walking the dock and have a positive experience stick with that boat for a couple of sails and then ask the owner or others on the boat to introduce you to other boats that you could sail on. If you explain that you are trying to learn as much as possible they should support it 100%.

5- Depending on what you want to do with sailing it may be time to look at getting a boat of your own. In that case you first need to determine what type of sailing you want to do and where you want to go.

OR
Buy a boat, put her in the water and see what happens!

I would suggest reading the following books:
"Start Sailing Right" by Derrick Fries
"Basic Keelboat"
both available for about $17 each at
http://store.ussailing.org/listItem...&SubCat=START&SubCatDesc=Starting&Search=Link

Also - the US Coast Guard Auxiliary has a book called "Boating Skills and Seamanship"
that will address more general boating knowledge.

Hope that helps a bit,

Brian