Should I buy a Range Rover?
- Thread starter JeepN95YJ
- Start date
FourByLand
Expedition Leader
JeepN95YJ said:
Just make them a lower offer... sounds like a bad horror flick in here.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
From rangerovers.net:
http://www.rangerovers.net/newrremedies.htm
Body ECM (BeCM) Problems
See also Alarm System problems above and BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page.
Virtually all non-engine functions (and even enablement of engine cranking) on the new Range Rover, from the windows to the suspension, are either controlled or monitored by a computer known as the Body Electrical Control Module ("BeCM"). Its tentacles are omnipresent. This electronic "brain" is also the one that supplies most of the 150 possible messages to the vehicle's Message Center alerting the driver to all manner of vehicle functions and malfunctions. When all that wizardry is working according to plan, everything is bliss. However this expensive (about $1000) little box full of electronics and microprocessors is one of the few ECUs in modern vehicles that seems to have a solid reputation for failing. To be fair, at least some of the "failures" have been due to the operator not understanding the complex BeCM functions, and there has actually been nothing wrong. This is known to be the case where BeCMs have been replaced for supposedly malfunctioning reverse mirror dipping. Also, it should be said that most BeCM failures do not disable the vehicle, but result in minor annoyances such as lights turning on (or not turning on) etc. For these kind of p[roblems, if you have the time and inclination, with a modicum of electrical knowledge, there is a fair chance you can diagnose and fix the problem yourself. Full details of how to do this appear in the repair operation section on the BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page.
Nonetheless, the BeCM has not acquired its Lucas-like reputation for nothing. One owner reports that "My 96 4.0 locked me out...... something to do with the BECM going into anti theft mode... So I am being told, no lights, no check engine light no sirens nada! I am able to open the car normally, the radio works, the windows etc.....It just won't start." The computer had gone mysteriously into theft mode. Fortunately in his case his mechanic (Larry at Four Oaks Garage in Santa Monica) was able to reset it in all of 5 minutes. No details are available on how he did it -- if you know how to do it, please write in!! (Update 2004: From bitter experrience we now know he may well have used the Emergency Key Access (EKA) procedure described under Alarm System problems above and in more detail on the the Key/Remote Problems page). Most cases I have heard of were not so easily resolved. I personally am aware of one vehicle that was disabled for weeks at a dealer while the BeCM was swapped and other steps were tried to figure out its problem, apparently another case of something to do with the alarm system deciding to prevent the engine from starting.
If this sort of prospect is alarming to you, make sure you buy that extended warranty plan!!
For more details, see the BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page, the BeCM replacement/reprogramming page, and the Security/Alarm System Problems and Solutions page.
________________________________________________________________
From everything you've mentioned, I would pass on this vehicle. You're talking about a high-mileage rig with a complex management system, which makes engine or other swaps more difficult. Part costs and premium gas are two other downsides. Don't get me wrong, it's a capable vehicle, but you might consider other options if you want an expedition vehicle. Disco Is are my choice, if you can find a clean example.
http://www.rangerovers.net/newrremedies.htm
Body ECM (BeCM) Problems
See also Alarm System problems above and BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page.
Virtually all non-engine functions (and even enablement of engine cranking) on the new Range Rover, from the windows to the suspension, are either controlled or monitored by a computer known as the Body Electrical Control Module ("BeCM"). Its tentacles are omnipresent. This electronic "brain" is also the one that supplies most of the 150 possible messages to the vehicle's Message Center alerting the driver to all manner of vehicle functions and malfunctions. When all that wizardry is working according to plan, everything is bliss. However this expensive (about $1000) little box full of electronics and microprocessors is one of the few ECUs in modern vehicles that seems to have a solid reputation for failing. To be fair, at least some of the "failures" have been due to the operator not understanding the complex BeCM functions, and there has actually been nothing wrong. This is known to be the case where BeCMs have been replaced for supposedly malfunctioning reverse mirror dipping. Also, it should be said that most BeCM failures do not disable the vehicle, but result in minor annoyances such as lights turning on (or not turning on) etc. For these kind of p[roblems, if you have the time and inclination, with a modicum of electrical knowledge, there is a fair chance you can diagnose and fix the problem yourself. Full details of how to do this appear in the repair operation section on the BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page.
Nonetheless, the BeCM has not acquired its Lucas-like reputation for nothing. One owner reports that "My 96 4.0 locked me out...... something to do with the BECM going into anti theft mode... So I am being told, no lights, no check engine light no sirens nada! I am able to open the car normally, the radio works, the windows etc.....It just won't start." The computer had gone mysteriously into theft mode. Fortunately in his case his mechanic (Larry at Four Oaks Garage in Santa Monica) was able to reset it in all of 5 minutes. No details are available on how he did it -- if you know how to do it, please write in!! (Update 2004: From bitter experrience we now know he may well have used the Emergency Key Access (EKA) procedure described under Alarm System problems above and in more detail on the the Key/Remote Problems page). Most cases I have heard of were not so easily resolved. I personally am aware of one vehicle that was disabled for weeks at a dealer while the BeCM was swapped and other steps were tried to figure out its problem, apparently another case of something to do with the alarm system deciding to prevent the engine from starting.
If this sort of prospect is alarming to you, make sure you buy that extended warranty plan!!
For more details, see the BECM Operation, Diagnosis and Repair page, the BeCM replacement/reprogramming page, and the Security/Alarm System Problems and Solutions page.
________________________________________________________________
From everything you've mentioned, I would pass on this vehicle. You're talking about a high-mileage rig with a complex management system, which makes engine or other swaps more difficult. Part costs and premium gas are two other downsides. Don't get me wrong, it's a capable vehicle, but you might consider other options if you want an expedition vehicle. Disco Is are my choice, if you can find a clean example.
sven
Adventurer
My favorite P38 quirk is the mysterious battery drain syndrome.
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/electrical/batdrain.html
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/electrical/batdrain.html
revor
Explorer
TeriAnn said:Really??? I hadn't noticed. You assessments of coilers always seemed fair & balanced to me.
Sure! You'd say that!
Series owners! Really!
Oh wait I have those too!
I was almost going to say a Series would be a good "starter LR" but simple as they are I'm afraid not everyone has the patience, on the other hand it's not much different than any other older quirky truck.
Scott Brady
Founder
Should you buy a Range Rover? Yes
Should you buy a P38 with 150k? No
Find a P38 with less than 100k on it. The P38 does seem to be the most troublesome of all the Range Rover models. I do like them though.
Should you buy a P38 with 150k? No
Find a P38 with less than 100k on it. The P38 does seem to be the most troublesome of all the Range Rover models. I do like them though.
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
So much drivel...
Run while you can. Get away before LUCAS sinks his dark claws into you.
But if you insist on being a glutton for punishment and pleasure all at the same time... mercedesrover is right on the money when he recommends a DI is a good place to start. 94 - 95 DI's have the 3.9 with a dizzy. 96 - 99-1/2 have a fuel injected 4.0. I had a 96 DI that never let me down. Some say 96 is the worst year to get but she never failed me and I know several people who have 96 DI's and they run very well.
I would also consider a RRC (Range Rover Classic). 87-88 had the LT230 TC with CDL and a 3.5. 88 - 95 did not. 93 - 95 had the option of the LWB (Long Wheel Base) which added an additional 8" of length to the frame/body in the rear passenger seat area and came with a 4.2. The SWB (Short Wheel Base) model comes with the 3.9. The 95 RRC LWB has the DI front dash/interior. Probably the best year ever for rangies.
I currently own a 94 RRC LWB with a 3" lift and some other goodies. Does good as a DD and as an offroader.
All this IMHO, of course.
Run while you can. Get away before LUCAS sinks his dark claws into you.
But if you insist on being a glutton for punishment and pleasure all at the same time... mercedesrover is right on the money when he recommends a DI is a good place to start. 94 - 95 DI's have the 3.9 with a dizzy. 96 - 99-1/2 have a fuel injected 4.0. I had a 96 DI that never let me down. Some say 96 is the worst year to get but she never failed me and I know several people who have 96 DI's and they run very well.
I would also consider a RRC (Range Rover Classic). 87-88 had the LT230 TC with CDL and a 3.5. 88 - 95 did not. 93 - 95 had the option of the LWB (Long Wheel Base) which added an additional 8" of length to the frame/body in the rear passenger seat area and came with a 4.2. The SWB (Short Wheel Base) model comes with the 3.9. The 95 RRC LWB has the DI front dash/interior. Probably the best year ever for rangies.
I currently own a 94 RRC LWB with a 3" lift and some other goodies. Does good as a DD and as an offroader.
All this IMHO, of course.
I agree do your homework. I just bought a P38 myself for my wife. Its a 2000 and in near perfect shape. It was recently in the LR dealer down here per the carfax so I had them send me the service paperwork. The dealer said it needs a blend motor, a recir motor, a new tensioner pulley and a front abs sensor. The ABS/TC light is on (sensor probably) and the book is showing in the HVAC box (blend motor). It just crossed 100k. To me the Ac and heat works perfectly so I probably wont fix that. I can live with the dash lights until I find a deal on the sensor and the tensioner pulley is cheap. I used this knowledge to badger them down. This is my first P38 but 5th rover. I know better and I still had to have one! It will never be offroad though, get a D1, RRC or series for that.
RoverMack
Adventurer
I would agree that a P38 may not be a good choice as a first LR.
The V8's do not appreciate being overheated, and slipped liners can be an expensive problem for all later 4.0 and especially 4.6 models.
Some early models up to about mid 97 did have a variety of electrical gremlins, but unusual to actually leave you stranded (BECM sits under the passenger seat and does not like getting damp (causes including over zelous carpet steam cleaning and leaking heater o rings). The GEMS engine prior to 99 could be considered more DIY friendly.
Parts are expensive, gas mileage is poor.Fully loaded with RTT at aprox 6000lb I manage 10mpg in heavy LA traffic, 16 to 17mpg freeway at 70mph average around 13.5mpg overall.
Coil conversion solves the air suspension issues with a trade off in ride comfort. Most problems are well known and as with most LR's maintenance and servicing is the key to reliability. The workshop manual and the electrical troubleshooting manual are essential.
The P38 is a capable trail vehicle and the comfort is appreciated especially by rear seat passengers (my 10 year old son) on those longer road trips to reach exploration opportunities.
You definitely need the LR love
The V8's do not appreciate being overheated, and slipped liners can be an expensive problem for all later 4.0 and especially 4.6 models.
Some early models up to about mid 97 did have a variety of electrical gremlins, but unusual to actually leave you stranded (BECM sits under the passenger seat and does not like getting damp (causes including over zelous carpet steam cleaning and leaking heater o rings). The GEMS engine prior to 99 could be considered more DIY friendly.
Parts are expensive, gas mileage is poor.Fully loaded with RTT at aprox 6000lb I manage 10mpg in heavy LA traffic, 16 to 17mpg freeway at 70mph average around 13.5mpg overall.
Coil conversion solves the air suspension issues with a trade off in ride comfort. Most problems are well known and as with most LR's maintenance and servicing is the key to reliability. The workshop manual and the electrical troubleshooting manual are essential.
The P38 is a capable trail vehicle and the comfort is appreciated especially by rear seat passengers (my 10 year old son) on those longer road trips to reach exploration opportunities.
You definitely need the LR love
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Exactly. I have EVERY receipt imaginable from the two PO before me for my 94 RRC LWB, including the original dealer invoice paperwork when it was sold new for $48K in 1994.RoverMack said:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11196
Mercedesrover
Explorer
I'm putting a windshield in one of these today.
OEM, heated glass. $1113.90, thank you very much.
There's a NAGS listing but none in the country.
OEM, heated glass. $1113.90, thank you very much.
There's a NAGS listing but none in the country.
FourByLand
Expedition Leader
Well, no one said the parts were cheap.
James86004
Expedition Leader
Mercedesrover said:
A rock severely cracked the heated windshield in our 93 Range Rover once. Those cost near $1000 at the time, but we had full glass coverage on our insurance so we turned it in. My wife saw the invoice the glass shop were sending to USAA. Guess how much they charged USAA, including installation? $200! My wife asked them about that, and they said USAA gets a great deal from them because they always pay their bills promptly and without hassle.
I've always liked the looks of those P38's, but equally impressed by the number of people who say "run away!"
Would it be practicable to bypass all those computers in favor of, oh let's just say, toggle switches? I mean, jeeze, given a bad body computer and $1000 to repair it, couldn't you just rip it all out and hook up the essentials to a switch panel? I just hate stuff that's so fragile and complicated that it ages itself out.
Would it be practicable to bypass all those computers in favor of, oh let's just say, toggle switches? I mean, jeeze, given a bad body computer and $1000 to repair it, couldn't you just rip it all out and hook up the essentials to a switch panel? I just hate stuff that's so fragile and complicated that it ages itself out.