Skool me on the 80 series!

[jeeperaz]

My opinion, I would not let factory lockers make or break a deal... unless you are a serious crawler that is, and if so you wouldn't be looking at an 80 to begin with. You can always use 'not having factory lockers' as a bargaining point.

I searched all over the southwest for mine... it took a year before I found the right one (lockers, color, mileage). It turned out to be a big bust!

The head gasket blew a month or two after I bought it. When repairing the head gasket, I found the timing chain dampner was broken. 20 hours and many hundreds of dollars later I got it back together. Then the radiator cracked. A tranny line sprung a leak just as we were leaving for a camping trip. Plus, lots of nickle and dime (get to know cruiserdan well) maintenance items to perform that come along with owning an older, high-mileage vehicle. I never could be confident in taking the vehicle out of the city after all these problems. I finally sold it to a local guy who knew my history with it.

That said, I love the way they look and admire everyone I see, especially the built ones. Perhaps someday I'll own another. My motor with 90k + miles on it looked basically brand new internally after I had it torn apart and was able to inspect it. No question it would run many hundreds of thousands of miles more if the rest of the components hold up.

Ultimately, I would not recommend an 80 to any of my friends/family that were not capable of above average maintenance or possessing a strong checking account. This just comes with the age of the vehicles in question.

I would think just about any one you buy will need the birfield's serviced and the PHH replaced soon. They are not the easiest vehicle to work on and the aftermarket support isn't the best or cheapest.

Good luck. If you need help looking at one, I'd be willing to lend my experience as long as it isnt too far away (N Phoenix).

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

jeeperaz,
what a disappointing experience! i would have little confidence with your history as well. too bad it happened on such a low mileage vehicle.

I have had the opposite, very good experience with mine. It has been rock solid reliable and very capable.
Factory lockers save you a few grand but I agree, it isn't a deal breaker. Factory lockers will engage quickly but need to roll to do it, ARB's will pop on and off instantly.

The 80 is fairly simple, has been easy to work on and everything is basically rebuildable and robust.
The aftermarket is small but good. Unfortunately, not the mass selection Jeep owners enjoy but the 80 is a rare vehicle in the USA. So there is some pride and pitfalls of that.

I just love mine and there is never anything new or newer that appeals to me over the 80.


The "best", imo, are the 95.5-97 because of the OBD II, 1FZ and interior upgrades.

 

[ShottsCruisers]

unless you are a serious crawler that is, and if so you wouldn't be looking at an 80 to begin with

????

Does "serious crawler" equal "Rock Buggy" in your verbage? Curious.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

oh no not this again...:violent-smiley-031:

 

[mr r2fj]

We really appreciate all the info and stories anyone has to share! Sounds like you had a horrible experience jeeperaz! I suppose you take a risk with any high mileage vehicle that you must expect things will break. I think anything in this range of mileage is going to be highly dependent on how it was taken care of initially. I would really appreciate any semantic discussion to be taking to PM or another thread. Not trying to step on any toes just would like to stay focused! :beer:

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Yes! Thanks to everyone....right now I have to say I'm leaning more and more to the 4Runner department.....since this will be my daily driver as well as weekend funmobile it seems more and more that the 4Runner would be the reliable choice. I have a good friend who is a mechanic who could help me out with fixing things, but I also don't want something I have to constantly put money into for repairs...I want to be able to put any extra cash into sliders, bumper, etc. So far the 2 80's we've gone to look at have not been in the greatest shape, even considering their age and that is scaring me off a bit. It just seems more and more that with the right 4Runner I can change the fluids out and be off on an adventure next weekend without worrying about something breaking on it.

We are continuing the search however, so please keep the information and stories coming!

 

[MoGas]

A few answers for you.

Background: I have a 93 FZJ80, 220k+ miles, general modifications, daily driver and all purpose vehicle. You saw it at Sedona(Flood)Fest last year.

I only now have developed a slight power steering leak at the box. It should be < 100 bucks for the parts and a few beers worth of time on a Saturday. I also have a small oil weep at the oil pump plate. Again, not a biggie. When I bought it, the guy thought the engine needed rebuilt because it leaked a lot of oil up front of the engine. It was a $3.00 O-ring on the distributor. I have ~$1000.00 in parts that I have purchased for the rig over the years. <2/3rds of that have been necessary repairs. Couple hundred bucks for the birf parts (Planned Preventative Maintenance), a new condenser and radiator (My fault) and various little hoses here and there. Other than the fact that it is Winter and I'm also up for an oil change, I would hop in my rig right now and drive to Alaska without a fear of breakdown.

I have had no head gasket issues (knocks wood). The head gasket on the 1FZ-FE is quite possibly the most documented maintenance task ever. If you can read this sentence, look at pictures, watch a DVD, and follow instructions, you can change the head gasket.

I have never been in a situation that required lockers, and I have been in some pretty serious situations. They would have been nice at those times, but it's the archer, not the arrow.

PHH not a huge deal to change on your own.

Personally, no Land Cruiser would scare me off if the price were commensurate to the condition. I would, however, pay for low miles before lockers. High mileage has yet to be determined for the 80 series. Essentially, when the first one wears out, we'll know how long they last.



Dave

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

A few answers for you.

Background: I have a 93 FZJ80, 220k+ miles, general modifications, daily driver and all purpose vehicle. You saw it at Sedona(Flood)Fest last year.

I only now have developed a slight power steering leak at the box. It should be < 100 bucks for the parts and a few beers worth of time on a Saturday. I also have a small oil weep at the oil pump plate. Again, not a biggie. When I bought it, the guy thought the engine needed rebuilt because it leaked a lot of oil up front of the engine. It was a $3.00 O-ring on the distributor. I have ~$1000.00 in parts that I have purchased for the rig over the years. <2/3rds of that have been necessary repairs. Couple hundred bucks for the birf parts (Planned Preventative Maintenance), a new condenser and radiator (My fault) and various little hoses here and there. Other than the fact that it is Winter and I'm also up for an oil change, I would hop in my rig right now and drive to Alaska without a fear of breakdown.

I have had no head gasket issues (knocks wood). The head gasket on the 1FZ-FE is quite possibly the most documented maintenance task ever. If you can read this sentence, look at pictures, watch a DVD, and follow instructions, you can change the head gasket.

I have never been in a situation that required lockers, and I have been in some pretty serious situations. They would have been nice at those times, but it's the archer, not the arrow.

PHH not a huge deal to change on your own.

Personally, no Land Cruiser would scare me off if the price were commensurate to the condition. I would, however, pay for low miles before lockers. High mileage has yet to be determined for the 80 series. Essentially, when the first one wears out, we'll know how long they last.



Dave

Dave, I was hoping you would chime in on this thread. I'm starting to worry less about the lockers and more about finding a quality vehicle. I was hoping to test drive another LC tonight but it was purchased before we could arrange a time to meet. I did get to drive another 3rd gen 4Runner with the rear locker and it was in great condition considering the age. It is #1 on my list right now but there is one more LC I'd still like to check out.

Here are my concerns right now on LC v. 4Runner:

gas mileage
maintenance
overall condition
cost to modify
overall bang for my buck

So far I've only been able to find this in a 4Runner, but that could be because the last LC we looked at scared me!

 

[davegonz]

Color

Don't know if anyone has mentioned anything about colors and about clear coat failures, but I have had two 80 series Land Cruisers (white one and a green one) and would like to recommend that you get a white cruiser if you had the choice. The white paint holds up the best of all the colors I've seen. The green one (and other green ones I've seen) have a propensity for clear coat failure on the roof and on the hood. This can be minor, but can also be expensive to get it repainted and clear coated.

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned anything about colors and about clear coat failures, but I have had two 80 series Land Cruisers (white one and a green one) and would like to recommend that you get a white cruiser if you had the choice. The white paint holds up the best of all the colors I've seen. The green one (and other green ones I've seen) have a propensity for clear coat failure on the roof and on the hood. This can be minor, but can also be expensive to get it repainted and clear coated.

I haven't noticed that on any LC's yet, but BOTH 4Runners I've seen have had that exact issue in those exact same places.

 

[MoGas]

Dave, I was hoping you would chime in on this thread. I'm starting to worry less about the lockers and more about finding a quality vehicle. I was hoping to test drive another LC tonight but it was purchased before we could arrange a time to meet. I did get to drive another 3rd gen 4Runner with the rear locker and it was in great condition considering the age. It is #1 on my list right now but there is one more LC I'd still like to check out.

Here are my concerns right now on LC v. 4Runner:

gas mileage
maintenance
overall condition
cost to modify
overall bang for my buck

So far I've only been able to find this in a 4Runner, but that could be because the last LC we looked at scared me!

If you don't need another vehicle right now, don't force it and end up settling on something you may not be 100% happy with. You are in the driver's seat here.

Let me address each of your concerns.

gas mileage

I get a consistent city 12.25mpg with the extra weight of sliders, winch, ARB bumper, and regular gear I keep in there along with having 33" tires. My speedometer is not corrected at this time. I have a TruSpeed to install to correct my speedometer, just not had the time to mess with it. I calculated a full day of mixed driving with my GPS and it was 13.35mpg. So I guess that somewhere between 13-13.5 is my actual mileage for mixed DD use, there is always some wheeling in the tank too. Probably 7-10 miles of 4Lo per tank.

Highway only, I get 17.5 mpg uncorrected. So probably mid 18 in reality.

I could shed some weight and bring those numbers up, but why chance being unprepared if I want to hop into the forest for a bit.

maintenance

This is a touchy area. If you buy a car with lower miles, it should require less to bring it up to a good baselined status. A Land Cruiser asks little of it's keeper. If you are looking at one between 80-120K, the only really big issue to address is the birfs. If you can't do it yourself, it will be around 700 bucks to have done. Otherwise, it is about a 10 hour job for a first timer with ~250 bucks in parts. I would recommend buying the parts and bring it up here for me to teach you how to do them properly on a Saturday.....I work for :beer: and :steak:.
Other things to address would be the PHH, again, not a big deal. 20 bucks in hose and nice clamps and an hour max to do it.

More miles and you would be advised to have someone from Copper State Cruisers go over it with you. (Do you go to the CSC section on Mud?)

To baseline any "new" used vehicle, I do the full fluid change out (diffs, transfer, tranny, engine, coolant, power steering, brake), new belts, radiator hoses, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, air filter and brakes. So that cost would be a wash between a Cruiser or any other 4x4 you decide on.

overall condition

This is objective to any vehicle you look at. We have 2 cruisers, my 93 and my wife's 88 FJ62 (204k) They are still both very solid vehicles, with few, if any rattles or squeaks. In Arizona, the paint may have the clear coat blown on it and sun damage to the interior. This is where I would lean towards the LX450. Most have been garage kept and probably were in shades at the office. Due to the initial cost, they were likely sold to executive types or doctors or spent a little time in the sun while parked at the club. Then again, my Cruiser came from an Anesthesiologist in Paradise Valley. Both of ours have wear on the driver's seat, but that's about it for the interior wear.

cost to modify

Lift:
OME for the LC is ~875 at Cruiser Outfitters and that is for various systems up to 4" and it takes me about an two hours to do an OME 2.5 inch system including CC bushings.

Depending on the year, it looks like OME suspensions for the 4Runners are between 650 and 850. I don't have any experience with install on these, so I can't say how long it should take or cost to install.

Snorkels, bull bars and other armor should be close enough to not matter price wise.

I don't know of any companies that make drawer systems for the back of the 4Runner.

I say advantage 80 on this, because I prefer a solid axle over IFS.

overall bang for my buck

Value is perceived when the quality (or service) exceeds the expectations.

I again, have to lean towards the 80, but I am biased.



The FZJ 80 has been around long enough to see people with 300k on the clock and still going strong. I personally, have seen the cylinders of a 200k 1FZ-FE and they were not out of round in any way and still had good cross hatch in the cylinders. On any V type engine, you will get cylinder wear due to gravity pulling on the pistons against the bottom of the cylinders, so I am a fan of inline engines as far as durability and longevity.

Oddly, I was just going over a 99 4Runner for a friend. It seemed small inside compared to the 80 and seemed to have a lighter feel to it. I prefer a tailgate to a lift gate and I'm not a fan of roll down rear glass.


Don't get emotional about a vehicle.
Do take someone else that knows those specific vehicles with you.
Do spend the 100 bucks to get it looked over by a reputable Toyota mechanic.
Don't go at night.
Do take notes and get back to them.
Rely on your gut.
Don't be afraid of miles if the maintenance is well documented.

Nice 80s are out there cheap. You just have to be patient. Here was a good one that went for $4750 or less with lockers. I would have bought it if it would have been around a few more days.


Dave

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Thank you Dave for all of your great insight; I must say you've got me thinking.

I get a consistent city 12.25mpg with the extra weight of sliders, winch, ARB bumper, and regular gear I keep in there along with having 33" tires. My speedometer is not corrected at this time. I have a TruSpeed to install to correct my speedometer, just not had the time to mess with it. I calculated a full day of mixed driving with my GPS and it was 13.35mpg. So I guess that somewhere between 13-13.5 is my actual mileage for mixed DD use, there is always some wheeling in the tank too. Probably 7-10 miles of 4Lo per tank.

Highway only, I get 17.5 mpg uncorrected. So probably mid 18 in reality.

I could shed some weight and bring those numbers up, but why chance being unprepared if I want to hop into the forest for a bit.

This right now is my #1 concern. I don't commute nearly as far as most folks do here in the valley (about 50 miles per week + errands), but it is enough that this summer when gas prices were over $4/gal it was costing me upwards of $70/week to dd the FJ and that was a killer. Since I'm only working part time right now (and unless I find something for the summer to supplement, I won't be working come June), I just can't do that again. I don't mind spending the money for a vacation or weekend trip, but I just can't be spending that kind of money on gas again for at least the next year.

This is a touchy area. If you buy a car with lower miles, it should require less to bring it up to a good baselined status. A Land Cruiser asks little of it's keeper. If you are looking at one between 80-120K, the only really big issue to address is the birfs. If you can't do it yourself, it will be around 700 bucks to have done. Otherwise, it is about a 10 hour job for a first timer with ~250 bucks in parts. I would recommend buying the parts and bring it up here for me to teach you how to do them properly on a Saturday.....I work for :beer: and :steak:.
Other things to address would be the PHH, again, not a big deal. 20 bucks in hose and nice clamps and an hour max to do it.

More miles and you would be advised to have someone from Copper State Cruisers go over it with you. (Do you go to the CSC section on Mud?)

To baseline any "new" used vehicle, I do the full fluid change out (diffs, transfer, tranny, engine, coolant, power steering, brake), new belts, radiator hoses, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, air filter and brakes. So that cost would be a wash between a Cruiser or any other 4x4 you decide on.

I am over on mud and the csc section, but not nearly as much as other sites, so I don't really know any of the cruiser guys personally here in Phoenix. I really appreciate your offer to help with these things, I'm currently looking at a cruiser that is on Mud now, no lockers and 175k miles but otherwise nicely built: http://tinyurl.com/635fph I haven't been able to get a return email or phone call today on this though. Do you consider this 'excessive' miles?

This is objective to any vehicle you look at. We have 2 cruisers, my 93 and my wife's 88 FJ62 (204k) They are still both very solid vehicles, with few, if any rattles or squeaks. In Arizona, the paint may have the clear coat blown on it and sun damage to the interior. This is where I would lean towards the LX450. Most have been garage kept and probably were in shades at the office. Due to the initial cost, they were likely sold to executive types or doctors or spent a little time in the sun while parked at the club. Then again, my Cruiser came from an Anesthesiologist in Paradise Valley. Both of ours have wear on the driver's seat, but that's about it for the interior wear.

I have been looking for an LX and man are they hard to find. So far I've only found one and it is still far beyond the budget.

Lift:
OME for the LC is ~875 at Cruiser Outfitters and that is for various systems up to 4" and it takes me about an two hours to do an OME 2.5 inch system including CC bushings.

Depending on the year, it looks like OME suspensions for the 4Runners are between 650 and 850. I don't have any experience with install on these, so I can't say how long it should take or cost to install.

Snorkels, bull bars and other armor should be close enough to not matter price wise.

I don't know of any companies that make drawer systems for the back of the 4Runner.

I say advantage 80 on this, because I prefer a solid axle over IFS.

If I even put a drawer system in the back we would probably build it (with the help of Don) like we did for the FJ. A lot of the drawer systems out there are nice but I just can't swallow some of the prices people ask for that stuff. Unless someone wants to sponsor me of course I would be happy to test it out for them! :jumping: Although some of the prices for mods are comparable, it seems to me there are a lot more companies out there making stuff for the 4Runner than the LC, but maybe I'm just not familiar with all the aftermarket specialists. Sliders are a good example, I can get the All Pro sliders we have for the FJ (which I LOVE) for the 4Runner for around $300, but most of the sliders I've seen for the LC are $600-800.

Oddly, I was just going over a 99 4Runner for a friend. It seemed small inside compared to the 80 and seemed to have a lighter feel to it. I prefer a tailgate to a lift gate and I'm not a fan of roll down rear glass.

I do love the amount of room in the LC, but I keep asking myself if I need it? Coming from the FJ, even the 4Runner seems huge on the inside and most of the time it would be carrying myself, + Josh, +maybe the dog at times. We don't have kids (and don't plan on having any) and only have 1 dog (and don't plan on having more than one at a time ever again), so I'm not really needing a family hauler. As for camping we pretty much have it down to a science and any camping done in this vehicle would most likely just be me and the dog anyway since the FJ is more set up for that kind of thing (RTT and such). I would probably have to agree with you on the tailgate theory, but I can also see the roll down rear window being a plus for the dog.

I'm certainly not going to rush into anything, but I'm pretty happy with the 4Runner we drove today. Considering tomorrow is Sunday I'm anxiously awaiting the new listings that will hopefully be coming out, and maybe the LC guy I'm waiting on will finally return my call.

Thanks again, and any of you 4Runner people out there feel free to chime in!

 

[MoGas]

Thank you Dave for all of your great insight; I must say you've got me thinking........

Do you consider this 'excessive' miles?

175 isn't high, especially with the work that has supposedly been done. Ask for documentation and walk if he balks at the request. The price seems a little on the high side. probably 4-5k would be more realistic. He didn't detail it for the pics. Which on one hand is good because he isn't hiding anything behind shiny hoses. Pulling a head unit and speakers is sort of a cheeseball move too. The lift is all cobbled together and everyone knows that you don't let the suspension articulation limit be the shocks. Have the panhard bars been modified? (highly recommended at 4").

Post a thread for help on the CSC and you will get a great response.

I have been looking for an LX and man are they hard to find. So far I've only found one and it is still far beyond the budget.

Here's a nice one with lockers and good mileage.

...Sliders are a good example, I can get the All Pro sliders we have for the FJ (which I LOVE) for the 4Runner for around $300, but most of the sliders I've seen for the LC are $600-800.

Sliders on an 80 are tougher to design because of the location of the cats. More steel and fab time=more money.

They are strong enough to lift an 80 off the ground, though.

 

[FurthurOnTheFly]

Ya I went through his postings on mud last night and it sounds like he's had that truck for sale for a very long time..originally posted in 2006 before most of the mods and he was asking $9k back then. Seems he is in no real hurry to get rid of it, and maybe keeps listing it to appease the wife? I'm still going to go post up on CSC and see what they have to say.

That LX you linked me too sure is a beauty, but again too far over budget. We are looking to stay in the $5k range, which really seems to limit our 'quality' choices.

I've been thinking about it more and more and right now the 4Runner just seems to be the more economical choice...in price and gas mileage. It will get me where I need to go for now and keep me entertained on the weekends long enough to finish up school and get back to working full time....maybe by then I can find a 97 LX still in good condition to pick up or 60 series I can afford to make into an off road machine.

I really appreciate all the help from everyone who has joined in on this thread, this is what makes the EXPO community so awesome! :26_7_2:

 

[SOAZ]

Ok I've kind of looked around here at the various threads of info on the 80's series and a lot of it has been helpful but I need basics. We are toying with the idea of adding an 80 series to the stable, of course we want the factory lockers, low miles, moonroof would be nice etc but it doesn't have to be all decked out (as in no we don't want to pay more than 5 or 6k for it). But what do we need to be aware of??

Anything that is troublesome on this series that should need to be repaired or looked out for? Anything we need to know specifically? Any mods that are must haves/must nots/or must stay away from??

And if anyone knows of a clean model for sale in their area please let me know!

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! eepwall: