Snow Photos - LR3
- Thread starter Teamjeff
- Start date
007
Explorer
Nice! that looks like a blast, were you solo?
I went snow camping last night but I'm having trouble with my camera so the photo's will have to wait.
I did a little experiment to see just how far I could go using a few techniques.
I started out at 40psi (because that was what was in my tires.)
When that stopped working I went to 20psi (didn't help much)
So I went 10 psi and the advantage was very significant as I started to float much better and the smaller tire diameter freed up some power.
Then I got to a steeper section and had to go to 5psi, and this was way better than 10 psi but I didn't feel comfortable going lower without beadlocks, so after progress stopped I chained up all tires with V-bars and aired back up to 10psi
This was working out even better as my speed increased and my momentum was helping me float. Even when I fell into the loose drifts I could auger down to the ice and punch through.
Then I broke one of my front chains!!
This was sort of tragic because 4 chains got me in to the mess and now I had to retreat - but couldn't, plus its 0 degrees and I'm 30 miles from a house or cell coverage at 8,000ft and its starting to snow hard. I was equipt to spend a few nights comfortably though
I ended up at 5psi with three chains and had to use a shovel, high lift, chainsaw and some dead trees to get back out
Technically I got stuck in 2009 and didn't recover until 2010!
Very educational however and I'm going to invest in some custom chains for the future!
I went snow camping last night but I'm having trouble with my camera so the photo's will have to wait.
I did a little experiment to see just how far I could go using a few techniques.
I started out at 40psi (because that was what was in my tires.)
When that stopped working I went to 20psi (didn't help much)
So I went 10 psi and the advantage was very significant as I started to float much better and the smaller tire diameter freed up some power.
Then I got to a steeper section and had to go to 5psi, and this was way better than 10 psi but I didn't feel comfortable going lower without beadlocks, so after progress stopped I chained up all tires with V-bars and aired back up to 10psi
This was working out even better as my speed increased and my momentum was helping me float. Even when I fell into the loose drifts I could auger down to the ice and punch through.
Then I broke one of my front chains!!
This was sort of tragic because 4 chains got me in to the mess and now I had to retreat - but couldn't, plus its 0 degrees and I'm 30 miles from a house or cell coverage at 8,000ft and its starting to snow hard. I was equipt to spend a few nights comfortably though
I ended up at 5psi with three chains and had to use a shovel, high lift, chainsaw and some dead trees to get back out
Technically I got stuck in 2009 and didn't recover until 2010!
Very educational however and I'm going to invest in some custom chains for the future!
Fivespddisco
Supporting Sponsor
I am so happy to see the disco 3 being used for fun. Keep up the good work
Teamjeff
Observer
007, I had the same experience with respect to tire pressure - didn't seem to make much difference in traction till I got down to 12psi. Chains wont clear the upper ball joints or wheel wells with my tires so no option there! Curious what part of the chain broke?
I really wish I would have had a winch, I thought I might skip it on this vehicle but as much as I love playing in the snow & as heavy as the LR is I think i'm going to have to. Don't want the extra 100lb on the nose but its better than shoveling!
I was solo in the sense that there were no other vehicles with me. Just my family & I.
I really wish I would have had a winch, I thought I might skip it on this vehicle but as much as I love playing in the snow & as heavy as the LR is I think i'm going to have to. Don't want the extra 100lb on the nose but its better than shoveling!
I was solo in the sense that there were no other vehicles with me. Just my family & I.
Teamjeff
Observer
Me too!
Everyone says it's like riding a couch offroad!! :smiley_drive:
007
Explorer
I haven't done a full autopsy because I was more concerned with getting unstuck but i snapped a shot for the warranty people.
The snow depth you encountered looked similar:
I bet you could air down closer to 5psi without blowing the bead. Snow is much more forgiving that way.
alot has to do with the sidewall height. because PSI refferes to pressure on area the reduced amount of sidewall of a lower profile tire then refferes to a lessor tottal amount of force holding the bead in place against the rim.
long story short...the bigger the side wall the better it will stay put a the same psi as a shorter side wall.
I have popped alot of beads in cold weather in the snow...but less psi is better for sure and until you are under 10psi you are not even close to what the tire can really produce for snow traction.
god I love snow wheeling!!
long story short...the bigger the side wall the better it will stay put a the same psi as a shorter side wall.
I have popped alot of beads in cold weather in the snow...but less psi is better for sure and until you are under 10psi you are not even close to what the tire can really produce for snow traction.
god I love snow wheeling!!
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Teamjeff
Observer
Yes, they are Cooper tires & are they any good in the snow? Thats a tough question to answer, in part due to the fact I have never used any other tire on the LR3 in the snow. That said, here's my review;
The first trip I took to the snow was early December 09, Crown King, AZ. There wasn't much depth but it was hard & icy - I was pretty disappointed and wished I would have spent the extra cash (double!!) on some BFG AT's which in my experience do a pretty good job in the snow. I had the kids with me so I didn't take the time to air down... until I tried turning around and misjudged the depth of a drainage cut - thats where the front plastic tow hook cover magically unclipped itself & I gained a few scratches on the bumper :ylsmoke: I ended up dropping the pressure to about 20psi and with a bit of shoveling we broke free.
Second trip - mid Dec, same location but now with some powder deep enough to cause the skidplates to drag at offroad height. I aired down to 20psi and began to rethink my regrets about the tire purchase, not a complete reversal of opinion but I thought I may have been too quick to judge on the first trip. I did have to do some shoveling though, primarily on the sloped corners of the graded forest road we were on... forward progress became sideways progress.
Third trip - late Dec, Jerome to Williams. Conditions were a bit icy & not too deep, aired down to 20psi again and only had to shovel out once & I started to wonder if the BFG's or any tire not built for snow could do any better. I felt pretty satisfied.
Fourth trip - late Dec, convinced my wife we should drive the highway to Williams spend the night in a hotel & take the scenic route (dirt & snow) back to Jerome, then highway from there on home. She agreed :smiley_drive: The trail was virgin & had quite a bit of light powder on it, in some places I was almost "bottomed out" standing in the snow. 2.5 - 3ft deep. Almost couldn't open the drivers door in super extended mode! We got stuck not 20 yards off the highway and I spend about an hour and a half digging & trying to get out, and finally did. The snow had melted, then refroze to the chassis & suspension - something I had not encountered in the past. I should have aired down low to start with but foolishly thought 25psi would cut it. To my surprise my wife & kids let me convince them to try to complete the trail -with one caveat - if we got stuck again I'd turn around and take "regular" roads back home. Well I aired down to about 12psi and hit it, we were pushing along at between 15 & 20 mph having a blast watching the powder curl over the hood & windshield!! Truly some of the most enjoyable time I've spent behind the wheel of the LR3... sadly though it didn't last long, the trail started to climb and the snow got deep enough to halt our charge. So I shoveled for about 30 min & reluctantly backed all the way out to the highway where we stopped and took advantage of a photo op with nice snowman, his snowwife (I assume) and their little snowchildren whom we did not build, lol.
Long story short, I think the tires did well when aired down & I'd be surprised if the Nittos, BFG's, or Goodyear MTR's would do too much better. Although I'd LOVE to do a comparison... anyone want to plan an LR3 snow run?
SeaRubi
Explorer
Mud terrains are a poor choice for deep snow, unless the size and width of the tire is sufficiently large to provide massive float (think 35's on beadlocks at 0 psi). I've run BFG muds and MT/R's and they both just dig. I always run a narrow tire, though. In deep silt, ash, sand, or snow I think an all-terrain with more siping and fewer lugs does much better.
you may think so but in deep snow you would be wrong.
in deep snow larger lugs pump more snow from infront of the tires to behind the tires and in the end that is what makes the truck move.
Add to that very low tire pressures to make as long a flat area under the tire and you will be most successful in deep snow.
AT treads do have the advantage on hard packed snow such as a plowed road that has been tracked up or started to ice over but to claim it is better in deep snow is just plain wrong. In deep snow the AT's tend to not be able to move enough snow to get the truck up on top and floating. Floating is what you want and to float you need to pump snow.
Teamjeff
Observer
I can see how the ability to "pump" snow is a valid point - there have been several instances where I became stuck that I had a sizable mound of snow in front of the rear tires. If the tires had the ability to grab the snow in that mound and relocate it behind the tire I think it would make a great difference. It's all a tradeoff though... as I'm sure a more aggressive tire would tend to dig down.
Nathan, I think your right about the winch, maybe next snow season!
Nathan, I think your right about the winch, maybe next snow season!
SeaRubi
Explorer
With the variants in snow conditions - temperatures, moisture content in the snow, age of the snow, depth etc, - tread type, tire size, and vehicle weight it's probably silly for either of us to make a blanket statement about all terrains or mud terrains.
I've probably not encountered deep snow in as many states as some of you folks, but have a taste of it in Oklahoma, Texas, Washington (east and west, might as well be different states), New York, and Pennsylvania. They were all different. I will say this: BFG muds do not do well in the wet PNW.
I had a set of BFG TracEdges in 235/85 that blasted through nearly any kind of snow. Granted, those tires are miracle tires. When I later swapped to the old style BFG Muds in 255/85 my Rangie would hardly get out of it's own way just turning onto the road. I was always very disappointed with them. Ditto for some Discos, both I and II, that I've been on runs with running BFG Muds.
My Jeep always did much better on the factory MT/R's, 245/75's, but I always attributed that to the weight of the vehicle, and the interlocking pattern on the center tread of the tires. Other people have sworn to me up and down that the MT/R was the worse snow tire they'd ever used. A friend of mine with an '03 TJ Rubi ran 33x12.50 MT/R's and would always slide all over the place. Again, all with different tire sizes and different vehicles.
Sometimes it just doesn't matter.
Later on with the JK, the measly Goodyear SR-A's seemed to bite better at Rausch Creek than many of the other guys running 35" muds and locked front and rear. As you describe it was a very icy (and cold) I don't think temps ever warmed up past 12 F.
The guys who bomb around on 37's all the time in Washington have repeatedly found that Interco Boggers are a poor choice for snow. They just dig straight down. The more street friendly SSR's do great. I won't ever run anything that big, but I've wheeled with a couple Jeep guys who did (39's, actually).
Tire chains for me have proven nearly useless in the very deep stuff (bases in the 4~6ft range). The truck will just bog down to the frame in the fluff. Sometimes you can keep moving, other times it just looks like a snow submarine. The only way to make it through it be able to completely float up on top. Get back out to the fire roads though where it might only be a few feet deep, and I've generally been able to plow through just running 1 set on the front axle.
One night I was out solo on a snow run, around 1 a.m. in the morning. I chalked up 3 recoveries. It was snowing pretty hard that day and it was deep. 2 different 4x4 F250's that were running mud terrains that dug down under the weight of the truck. The third was a kid in a Toyota, lifted sky high, sitting on Interco 38" SX's and in the ditch, locked front and rear and going nowhere. Interestingly enough he was aired down to almost nothing, but I think it was cold enough that he wasn't getting much flex in the sidewalls. The SX's are about the thickest of the Intercos, too. I pulled him out while sitting on about 3ft of pack on the FS road with a snatch strap and no real wheelspin to speak of. Luckily he was down in the ditch a bit which compressed the rear axle and gave me a bit of bite.
Maybe the more important take-away is to be able to balance the right level of flotation and the right amount of bite to the weight of the rig. I do firmly believe that having a bevy of friends in different types of rigs with different types of tires is the best bet for any run through snow, mud, or sand. No singular setup is best at everything.
cheers
-ike