So, I really like burbs and blazers...

[BIGdaddy]

But both of mine were pretty darned un-reliable.

1989 silvarado K5
-700r4 tranny puked its fluid on a trip across the us, then got stuck in 1st gear
-Same trip, blew both rear DS ubolts
-Same trip, rear end started leaking at the cover
-Dead A/C shortly after purchase and right before trip. Recharging it didn't fix it...


1988 3/4t suburban
-rattly rear barn doors
-brakes were very grabby, and even after replacing them, never really felt right...
-loose steering column that I fixed
-dead window motors shortly after purchase. 3, I think
-Dead A/C
-engine ended up being a non-start that I couldn't fix. Might have ended up being a fuel pump, but I couldn't diagnose it after 2 weeks of trying. Sold it for $500.00.


All that being said, I still LOVE those trucks and their simple stout good looks, and comfy seating arrangement

I'm a much better mechanic now, than when I owned either of those rigs, especially the blazer, but man they both seemed to have more than their fair share of issues. Did I just get two lemons, or has anyone else here simply had BAD luck with these rigs?

 

[ExpoMike]

Sorry to say, most GM products during the '80's were junk. And just so no one thinks I am GM bashing, I am a die hard GM (Chevy) guy. I have found GM products mid '90's and later seem to be of better quality. My '98 C1500 Silverado ran great and I bought it used at 147,000 miles. Sold it to my dad a few years later and it was his daily driver for a year until he retired. Much nicer build quality than many friend's late '80's C1500.

That said, even if you bought a 1990 rig, it's still 22 years old.

 

[Rot Box]

Maybe I've just had exceptional luck wih Toyota's and Honda's but Every American made vehicle I've owned (Dodges, Fords and Chevrolets) have all made me happy that I am mechanically inclined--some more than others lol. I have had many of the same issues as you and plenty more trust me At this point I try to just stay on top of maintenance and research common problems and solutions for that particular year make and model. Keeping a very detailed log of maintenance is very important to me as well. If I turn a wrench on the Ford it gets documented .

 

[edlaffoon]

My truck is a '73 K5 and has had every major component replaced in the 4 years I've had it. Engine, Trans (700R4 also) and 203 T-case all puked. Lost a drive shaft too. All of that from just driving down the road with no abuse.

That said I challenge you to find an equally equipped and priced Toyota or Land Rover that is 40 years old and perfect or even close to it. Odds are you will see the EXACT same issues.

It's all about what you like. Japanese trucks are more reliable, but I LOVE my K5.

 

[BIGdaddy]

My truck is a '73 K5 and has had every major component replaced in the 4 years I've had it. Engine, Trans (700R4 also) and 203 T-case all puked. Lost a drive shaft too. All of that from just driving down the road with no abuse.

That said I challenge you to find an equally equipped and priced Toyota or Land Rover that is 40 years old and perfect or even close to it. Odds are you will see the EXACT same issues.

It's all about what you like. Japanese trucks are more reliable, but I LOVE my K5.

Oooh, I like that body-style. very nice. How many miles did you have on the parts that failed, and that you replaced? Do you remember by chance?

My blazer only had about 80,000 miles, and the suburban had about 150,000.


So, what your saying, just so I'm clear, is that if you took a 1980 land cruiser, land rover, etc... you'd expect to see the same issues? If so, to be perfectly honest, I guess you're probably right about that. Similar to what Mike was talking about...

I see lots of fj40's with chevy small block/th400 swaps around here. I see lots of fj60's with the original 4speed, and 2f motor's, but they're probably the exception. Same with toyota mini-trucks with the carb'd 22r motor, but those are too freakin' small for me and mine. haha!

I know the early jeep XJ's (my rig) were crap, too. Puegeot trannies, and the precursor to the long-lived 4.0L inline six were boat anchors.

 

[Clutch]

All of the problems you listed I wouldn't consider major, stuff fails, simple as that. Or was never good from the get go...everything can be fixed.

With anything, there are going to be problems...best solution to fix an automatic tranny is to drop a manual in its' place.:ylsmoke:

Every single vehicle equipped with an automatic trans no matter the brand, I have ever owned has had problems. The manual trans vehicles, never a problem. I have the original clutch in my current truck with 260K miles on the odo.

The compressors go out on the AC units, no big deal in fixing them.

Those old trucks tend to leak oil...the gaskets were poor quality back then, but there are newer materials now, that can be retro fitted.


Buying an old vehicle there are going to be issues, it just a case if you're wiling to work on them all the time....or rebuild them from the ground up, and "fix" the problems that were there even since they were new.

 

[edlaffoon]

Oooh, I like that body-style. very nice. How many miles did you have on the parts that failed, and that you replaced? Do you remember by chance?
My blazer only had about 80,000 miles, and the suburban had about 150,000.
So, what your saying, just so I'm clear, is that if you took a 1980 land cruiser, land rover, etc... you'd expect to see the same issues? If so, to be perfectly honest, I guess you're probably right about that. Similar to what Mike was talking about...

Yeah it's my favorite too. The previous owner did all the overhauls so there was only 6000 miles on the clock supposedly.

That goes to show that who does the work and how has a lot to do with it.

As for the miles don't get too wrapped up in that because if regular maintenance lacks in the first 5 years of a vehicles life it will fall apart in 6, much less 20 years later. It could only have 30k on the odometer and still be a heap if the gaskets and seals were not cared for.

And yes I was talking about 40 year old trucks but the same is true for 10-30 year old vehicles as well. Japanese trucks are better, marginally to me, but better regardless at being trouble free.

I think that Toyotas are too small, can't tow, are uncomfortable and plain ugly. I love my Blazer. This is how she sits today, patiently waiting on a new trans:

 

[BurbanAZ]

yea ive had 3 suburbans. I had a 95 1/2 ton Burb with the 350 that has 280k miles and is still running great and i sold it to a friend and he still uses it as his dd. I have a 92 3/4 ton burb with the 454. This truck has taken us all over on some very bad terrain in bad weather, everything always been bomb proof never had any issues except the time i burned up an alternator winching out of snow. Now i have a 94 3/4 ton burb with the 6.5 turbo diesel, and its been great so far. So id vote for the early to mid 90s chevy trucks especially with the TBI if ur going with a gas engine. These are some of the most reliable trucks around in my opinion with just basic maintenance. I used all these trucks very very hard loaded up with gear and never had any major issues.

 

[BIGdaddy]

yea ive had 3 suburbans. I had a 95 1/2 ton Burb with the 350 that has 280k miles and is still running great and i sold it to a friend and he still uses it as his dd. I have a 92 3/4 ton burb with the 454. This truck has taken us all over on some very bad terrain in bad weather, everything always been bomb proof never had any issues except the time i burned up an alternator winching out of snow. Now i have a 94 3/4 ton burb with the 6.5 turbo diesel, and its been great so far. So id vote for the early to mid 90s chevy trucks especially with the TBI if ur going with a gas engine. These are some of the most reliable trucks around in my opinion with just basic maintenance. I used all these trucks very very hard loaded up with gear and never had any major issues.

interesting. Was there a big change over after 1990-1991-1992 that changed the overall reliability?

For example, my MIL has a 1999 GMC Sierra 3500 crew cab dually with the 454. Despite chugging gas and getting 11mpg's consistantly ($$$$) it's been bombproof drivetrain-wise. They've had stupid little issues with the tailgate latch and the driver's interior door handle, etc, but nothing catastrophic or out of the ordinary. This is with about 160k on the rig.

 

[ExpoMike]

I think GM took to just building better vehicles starting in the mid 90's. I was watching a report regarding GM a couple years back and one of the top GM execs was on and apologized for how bad the vehicles were in the '80's. He said they were just pushing out as many as they could without any real quality control. GM had been trying to make amends to win back buyers who were burnt back in the "dark days" as he put.

To me, it seem that GM got their head out of their butts and realized that brand loyalty was a lost cause by the '90's and they had to build better quality vehicles to stay competitive with Japan built vehicles. Many people were jumping off the American vehicle bandwagon because of being burnt during the '80's and seeing how much more reliable Japan built were (or persieved).

I know my dad had been a die hard Ford guy until his '81 Bronco. It was the biggest POS I think he has owned and he didn't own another American vehicle until '91 with a Pontiac Firebird. 10 years without an American vehicle due to this one Bronco. Since the Firebird, he has owned 3 more American vehicles and has had nearly zero problems during that time. I know a few others with very similar stories.

 

[BIGdaddy]

I think GM took to just building better vehicles starting in the mid 90's. I was watching a report regarding GM a couple years back and one of the top GM execs was on and apologized for how bad the vehicles were in the '80's. He said they were just pushing out as many as they could without any real quality control. GM had been trying to make amends to win back buyers who were burnt back in the "dark days" as he put.

To me, it seem that GM got their head out of their butts and realized that brand loyalty was a lost cause by the '90's and they had to build better quality vehicles to stay competitive with Japan built vehicles. Many people were jumping off the American vehicle bandwagon because of being burnt during the '80's and seeing how much more reliable Japan built were (or persieved).

I know my dad had been a die hard Ford guy until his '81 Bronco. It was the biggest POS I think he has owned and he didn't own another American vehicle until '91 with a Pontiac Firebird. 10 years without an American vehicle due to this one Bronco. Since the Firebird, he has owned 3 more American vehicles and has had nearly zero problems during that time. I know a few others with very similar stories.

Yeah, my parents were of the same mindset. My mom only drives honda's. That started in 1988 with her first one. She's on car number 4, I think, two having been creamed in accidents by other drivers.

My dad loves euro rigs, driving a bunch of porsche's, a volvo, and now his westy. He digs toyota's and subie's, too, and has pretty much stayed away from domestic rigs since having issues back in the day.

He loved his 1957 sedan, and drove the crap out of it on the strip, but that was a whole different type of quality back then.

 

[Larry]

If you think about it, none of the American Big 3 had top notch quality during the 80's or even 70's and earlier for that matter. Heck, not even the Japanese had anywhere near the quality they have today. A couple things happened towards the late 80's that changed the American quality forever. First, the Big 3 finally took foreign completion seriously and figured out they needed to get on their game and change the old mindsets of “Hey, we'll build it and people will buy it because, after all, we are GM, Ford, Chrysler….”. Another thing that greatly increased the quality of late 80's vehicles beyond was computer aided design engineering. The 88-98 GMT400 truck was the first GM full-size truck to be all computer engineered and durability tested before a single truck was built. US automotive suppliers also started using that technology in the late 80's which made a huge difference to overall initial quality and long term durability of the entire vehicle. Look how much better engines are sealed these days and how many miles you can get out of them these days? They don't leak, they don't need a rebuild after 100,000 miles, they don't need a tune up every 10,000 miles, etc. Even brakes last longer these days. Can't say that for pre-computer aided engineered vehicles. Look at the quality of parts Steven Watson at ORD builds for these old trucks. Even GM didn't have the technology to create items like that back in when these trucks were on the design board.

Lastly, the entire ISO certifications actually did help with overall quality in the last decade as there are much more checks and balances in place now as well as accountability. Accountability is where a lot of quality problems started as nobody wanted to take accountability for anything. Another thing is materials, look at the materials they used back in those days. Even plastics, rubbers and composites have gotten stronger and more durable these days. To a certain degree, even some metals have gotten better with automotive evolution (higher strength with less mass).

That all said, the newer the vehicle the more reliable (and safer) as the automotive technology evolution increased but I personally would still would rather have a restomoded old truck (Pre-90's) with certain modern components than any new truck that could be purchased today. Partly just because of the nostalgia of it all, they are fun to build and cost a fraction of a new truck. Anybody can buy a new truck and pay someone to build it for them but not everybody can reincarnate vehicles 30+ years old that are just as, if not more reliable and durable as a brand new one $45,000 truck.

If you are going to run an old rig you must accept the great deal of maintenance as a result of old design technology. Doesn't matter if you are talking GM, Ford or Chrysler. To complain about upkeep on a 20 year old vehicle that was actually designed on paper in the late 60's for their launch in 1973 seems silly to me. What do you expect? What happens when you buy an old house?

 

[ExpoMike]

I agree that I love build up old trucks/cars with all the classic aspects of it but adding modern components when/where I can.

The downside to this over a new truck is, parts replacement. At least were I am at, anymore you have computer jockeys behind the counter at most all auto parts stores. It can become the "guess what vehicle" game when trying to get them to find a part that was never oringally part of the year (or even model) vehicle. Even simple things like spark plug wires. My '65 C10 has a later model 305 with an HEI dizzy and headers. If I don't walk in with a part number in hand, I get the blank stare from them. When I had my '98 C1500 it was easy. I got xyz truck with this option(s). Okay here's the part.

One of the few downsides. Other seems to be insurance. Unless you have classic car insurance, which has tons of restrictions, you can't really get insured for what you might actually have in the rig. It's hard to have a 20K rig that you can only get liability insurance for. I am not so much worried about me doing something dumb, it's those other idiots. My dad had to fight this with a bug he was restoring. Took him almost 9 months to get the full payment out of the other insurance company. He got it but most don't have that much time to fight and settle for pennies on the dollars.

Just other things to look at in the big picture of older vehicles.

 

[BIGdaddy]

If you think about it, none of the American Big 3 had top notch quality during the 80's or even 70's and earlier for that matter. Heck, not even the Japanese had anywhere near the quality they have today. A couple things happened towards the late 80's that changed the American quality forever. First, the Big 3 finally took foreign completion seriously and figured out they needed to get on their game and change the old mindsets of “Hey, we'll build it and people will buy it because, after all, we are GM, Ford, Chrysler….”. Another thing that greatly increased the quality of late 80's vehicles beyond was computer aided design engineering. The 88-98 GMT400 truck was the first GM full-size truck to be all computer engineered and durability tested before a single truck was built. US automotive suppliers also started using that technology in the late 80's which made a huge difference to overall initial quality and long term durability of the entire vehicle. Look how much better engines are sealed these days and how many miles you can get out of them these days? They don't leak, they don't need a rebuild after 100,000 miles, they don't need a tune up every 10,000 miles, etc. Even brakes last longer these days. Can't say that for pre-computer aided engineered vehicles. Look at the quality of parts Steven Watson at ORD builds for these old trucks. Even GM didn't have the technology to create items like that back in when these trucks were on the design board.

Lastly, the entire ISO certifications actually did help with overall quality in the last decade as there are much more checks and balances in place now as well as accountability. Accountability is where a lot of quality problems started as nobody wanted to take accountability for anything. Another thing is materials, look at the materials they used back in those days. Even plastics, rubbers and composites have gotten stronger and more durable these days. To a certain degree, even some metals have gotten better with automotive evolution (higher strength with less mass).

That all said, the newer the vehicle the more reliable (and safer) as the automotive technology evolution increased but I personally would still would rather have a restomoded old truck (Pre-90's) with certain modern components than any new truck that could be purchased today. Partly just because of the nostalgia of it all, they are fun to build and cost a fraction of a new truck. Anybody can buy a new truck and pay someone to build it for them but not everybody can reincarnate vehicles 30+ years old that are just as, if not more reliable and durable as a brand new one $45,000 truck.

If you are going to run an old rig you must accept the great deal of maintenance as a result of old design technology. Doesn't matter if you are talking GM, Ford or Chrysler. To complain about upkeep on a 20 year old vehicle that was actually designed on paper in the late 60's for their launch in 1973 seems silly to me. What do you expect? What happens when you buy an old house?

That's interesting, I didn't know that..

 

[BIGdaddy]

I agree that I love build up old trucks/cars with all the classic aspects of it but adding modern components when/where I can.

The downside to this over a new truck is, parts replacement. At least were I am at, anymore you have computer jockeys behind the counter at most all auto parts stores. It can become the "guess what vehicle" game when trying to get them to find a part that was never oringally part of the year (or even model) vehicle. Even simple things like spark plug wires. My '65 C10 has a later model 305 with an HEI dizzy and headers. If I don't walk in with a part number in hand, I get the blank stare from them. When I had my '98 C1500 it was easy. I got xyz truck with this option(s). Okay here's the part.

One of the few downsides. Other seems to be insurance. Unless you have classic car insurance, which has tons of restrictions, you can't really get insured for what you might actually have in the rig. It's hard to have a 20K rig that you can only get liability insurance for. I am not so much worried about me doing something dumb, it's those other idiots. My dad had to fight this with a bug he was restoring. Took him almost 9 months to get the full payment out of the other insurance company. He got it but most don't have that much time to fight and settle for pennies on the dollars.

Just other things to look at in the big picture of older vehicles.

Hey Mike, do you find that's true with somewhat recognizeable classics as an old 3-door suburban (what Melissa wants..haha) or a 1955 chevy sedan (Like I used to have, and kick myself for selling)