Solar charging - Connection protocol?

[moabian]

I just bought a Renogy 100-watt system for maintaining the Odyssey Group 34 battery in my Scrambler which often sits idle for weeks at a time. The instruction booklet states: "Connect battery terminal wires to the charge controller FIRST then connect the solar panel to the charge controller. NEVER connect solar panel to charge controller before the battery." Does that mean that I must now disconnect the controller from the panel every time I disconnect the battery from the controller?

I've been using a smaller panel for 15 years and always left the panel connected to the controller, simply disconnecting the clamps from the battery and hanging them on an insulated hook when not connected to the battery. I think the controller might have finally gone bad so I bought the new Renogy system.

From the instructions, it appears that I will have to attach the clamps to the battery, then connect the controller to the panel. Reversing the procedure, it seems that I would have to disconnect the controller from the panel before removing the clamps from the battery terminals. Does anyone know if the system would be damaged if I left the panel connected to the controller while not connected to the battery?

I can put a quick-disconnect between the panel and controller if necessary.

Also, the controller can be set for sealed, gel, or flooded batteries. I assumed that I would use the "sealed" setting for the Odyssey, but also read somewhere that I should use the "flooded" setting for that battery. Any input on the setting I should use?

 

[dwh]

The instruction booklet states: "Connect battery terminal wires to the charge controller FIRST then connect the solar panel to the charge controller. NEVER connect solar panel to charge controller before the battery." Does that mean that I must now disconnect the controller from the panel every time I disconnect the battery from the controller?

Uh...well yea, it's pretty obvious that that is exactly what it means.

I've been using a smaller panel for 15 years and always left the panel connected to the controller, simply disconnecting the clamps from the battery and hanging them on an insulated hook when not connected to the battery. I think the controller might have finally gone bad so I bought the new Renogy system.

Did the instructions for the old one tell you to "NEVER do that"? Maybe not, but they almost certainly said to connect the battery first...pretty sure they all say that.

So you're saying that for 15 years you got away with ignoring the instructions and did not immediately smoke your controller, and you are wondering if you can get away with it again with the new one. (Because apparently, you did eventually manage to smoke the old one.)

Does anyone know if the system would be damaged if I left the panel connected to the controller while not connected to the battery?

Yea. The Chinese electronics engineer who told the Chinese technical writer, "Make sure you tell those gwilos to NEVER do that. We don't want to send out too many warrantee replacements." That guy knows the answer.

For the rest of us, all we can tell you is try it and then after you tell us what happened, we'll all know.

Also, the controller can be set for sealed, gel, or flooded batteries. I assumed that I would use the "sealed" setting for the Odyssey, but also read somewhere that I should use the "flooded" setting for that battery. Any input on the setting I should use?

Odysseys want high voltage. Probably higher than any of the charge profiles programmed into your controller. Look at the instructions, see which setting gets you the highest voltage and use that.

 

[AndrewP]

The Morningstar instructions say the same. Always connect the battery first. However, they also say, if you forget or don't do it in the right order, the unit will not be damaged. But obviously there is an issue there. My guess is, with the better quality controllers, no harm will come. But the cheaper and more Chinese it is, operating on the hairy edge of Mao's profitability price point, the more likely they leave out the circuit protection.

 

[moabian]

Verkstad and AndrewP...Thanks for the informative and civil answers. I'll install a quick-disconnect between the panel and the controller. Too bad some people jump on every opportunity to be A..holes. Hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, I guess that's how they safely get their thrills. And by the way dwh, my old controller is apparently just fine. I discovered it is just not putting out enough voltage for the Odyssey. Thanks for the amusing attack. There are no stupid questions...only stupid answers. Yours qualifies.

And by the way, I have a solar-powered observatory and a solar-powered guest house. Those systems always remain connected. For 15 years, I have simply disconnected the solar charger from the vehicle battery without breaking the connection between the controller and panel and wondered if I really needed to change my SOP with the new system.

 

[verdesardog]

connect the battery first so that the controller can adjust for the proper voltage, don't connect the solar panel under load (in sun), shade the panel when connecting or disconnecting.

 

[meental]

The problem with that renogy kit is the wires from the panel are screwed into the terminal block of the charge controller. If it really was an issue they would have provided a quick disconnect.

I think the connection order is more important in higher voltage/amperage systems to minimize sparking.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[dwh]

Hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, I guess that's how they safely get their thrills.

Aw, touched a nerve did I? We'll good, that was my intent.

For the record, I treated you exactly the same way I would treat any apprentice who asked a bonehead question. Well...not *exactly*. After all I didn't bang on your hardhat with my Klein's.

No reason to pussyfoot around it just because you're some anonymous guy on the internet.

For myself, I generally don't hide behind anonymity on the net (unless I'm doing something nefarious of course). My handle is my initials, and I've used the same handle on the net since before the web was invented. (Nothing special about that. It was common practice back in the days when we still used .sig files.) Plenty of people around here know my real name and who I am.

There are no stupid questions...only stupid answers. Yours qualifies.

Well, that's cute and all, but like most cliches...it's not really true. Despite what grade school teachers would like us to believe, there actually *are* stupid questions.

"Yours qualifies."

I mean, seriously. First you say the instructions tell you NEVER [sic] do that, and then you ask if it's okay to do that.

That's like painting a target on your forehead.

And by the way, I have a solar-powered observatory and a solar-powered guest house. Those systems always remain connected. For 15 years, I have simply disconnected the solar charger from the vehicle battery without breaking the connection between the controller and panel and wondered if I really needed to change my SOP with the new system.

Indeed. And if you hadn't claimed 15 years experience, I might have gone easier on you in my initial reply.

But after 15 years experience with solar, I expect someone to know better.

On the other hand...I know plenty of people who've owned cars for 15 years and still don't have a clue how they work.

 

[moabian]

It may be overkill for this application (kinda like a 100W panel being overkill for simply maintaining a Jeep battery), but I ordered a Square D 30A 600V DC Disconnect box/switch to put between the panel and controller. I also ordered a meter that will be mounted near the controller to continuously monitor voltage output from the controller at the various battery settings. So I'll be able to attach the battery clamps in the Jeep, then connect the panel by simply throwing the switch...and easily disconnect the panel before removing the clamps.

Since I work with one of the busiest Search and Rescue groups in the country (we had #105 for the year this morning), I won't always have the option of connecting or disconnecting at night or covering the roof-mounted panel. Hopefully, this will work.

 

[Robert Bills]

I just bought a Renogy 100-watt system. . . . The instruction booklet states: "Connect battery terminal wires to the charge controller FIRST then connect the solar panel to the charge controller. NEVER connect solar panel to charge controller before the battery." Does that mean that I must now disconnect the controller from the panel every time I disconnect the battery from the controller. . . ?

I've been using a smaller panel for 15 years and always left the panel connected to the controller, simply disconnecting the clamps from the battery and hanging them on an insulated hook when not connected to the battery. . . .

From the instructions, it appears that I will have to attach the clamps to the battery, then connect the controller to the panel. Reversing the procedure, it seems that I would have to disconnect the controller from the panel before removing the clamps from the battery terminals. Does anyone know if the system would be damaged if I left the panel connected to the controller while not connected to the battery?

I have a Renogy 100w Solar Suitcase which came pre-assembled with a charge controller. I could not find the language you refer to in my instruction manual. Instead, it states that to operate the system one simply unlatches and unfolds the panels, then connects the MC4 connectors to the pigtail with the alligator clips, then attaches the alligator clips to the battery. The manual states, "After connecting the battery to the charge controller, the controller will turn on automatically." In other words, one operates the system the same way you operated your former system for the past 15 years.

I finally found the language you refer to in the manual for the "Off Grid Kit" where it is in the context of assembling a fixed system for the first time. The language is found twice, first in the general cautions at the beginning of the manual and again in section 6.1 where the manual reads: "The battery(s) must first be connected to the charge controller before proceeding to any other connections. Most PWM Controllers have automatic battery voltage detection, and the controller must detect what voltage level it will be charging at."

The controller supplied by Renogy for my 100w Solar Suitcase has its own small battery that allows saving the settings, i.e., once 12v is detected and set one doesn't need to set to 12v each time the system is connected to a battery. I suspect that the controller that Renogy supplied you is the very same controller, which means that you don't have to follow a special protocol when connecting cables each time you hook up alligator clips to your truck battery, you just attach the alligator clips and the controller turns on.

My suggestion would be to have your controller model number handy and confirm this by telephoning Renogy on Monday during regular business hours (or Saturday before 2pm PST) at 800-330-8678. I would bet that you will get a much more helpful and accurate answer than the condescending diatribe offered by dwh.


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[dwh]

So...

You're saying he lied about what the manual said? It didn't *actually* say "NEVER"? (In caps no less.)

 

[moabian]

I have a Renogy 100w Solar Suitcase which came pre-assembled with a charge controller. I could not find the language you refer to in my instruction manual. Instead, it states that to operate the system one simply unlatches and unfolds the panels, then connects the MC4 connectors to the pigtail with the alligator clips, then attaches the alligator clips to the battery. The manual states, "After connecting the battery to the charge controller, the controller will turn on automatically." In other words, one operates the system the same way you operated your former system for the past 15 years.

I finally found the language you refer to in the manual for the "Off Grid Kit" where it is in the context of assembling a fixed system for the first time. The language is found twice, first in the general cautions at the beginning of the manual and again in section 6.1 where the manual reads: "The battery(s) must first be connected to the charge controller before proceeding to any other connections. Most PWM Controllers have automatic battery voltage detection, and the controller must detect what voltage level it will be charging at."

The controller supplied by Renogy for my 100w Solar Suitcase has its own small battery that allows saving the settings, i.e., once 12v is detected and set one doesn't need to set to 12v each time the system is connected to a battery. I suspect that the controller that Renogy supplied you is the very same controller, which means that you don't have to follow a special protocol when connecting cables each time you hook up alligator clips to your truck battery, you just attach the alligator clips and the controller turns on.

My suggestion would be to have your controller model number handy and confirm this by telephoning Renogy on Monday during regular business hours (or Saturday before 2pm PST) at 800-330-8678. I would bet that you will get a much more helpful and accurate answer than the condescending diatribe offered by dwh.


.

Thanks very much for your informative answer. Perhaps I should have gotten the solar suitcase, and maybe I will still pick one up for the trail. I wanted something I could mount permanently and that didn't seem to fit the bill for where and how I wanted to mount it. It would have been nice if the kit I bought had come with clips for a connection to the battery. Instead, it has eyelets on the cable ends, but I have some amazingly tenacious (overkill) clips that I will install in their place.

What I purchased is the "Renogy 100 Watt 12-volt Solar Starter Kit." The manual for the "upgraded" Wanderer controller that was supplied with my kit says nothing about automatic voltage detection...or when that voltage is required to be detected. It does, however, state what I quoted in my initial post...COMPLETE with caps as I faithfully transcribed it. I simply thought someone might be able to clarify if that was typical "Cover Your A*s" language found in so many instructions...or what the real reason was behind the statement. It also says: "The control is embedded with self-diagnostics and electronic protection functions that prevent damages from installation mistakes or system faults." So perhaps I could have operated as I have for the past 15 years. Regardless, the $120 switch box will be here Monday and I will use it. Ain't nuttin' wrong with overkill.

Condescending diatribe from the typical, small-minded internet jerk doesn't bother me. I know that the vast majority of them would not have the courage to say the same things in the same tone to a real person standing in front of them. The internet is like a condom. They can spurt whatever they wish with no fear of any real-life consequences. The initial response in this thread would not have been so objectionable if it at least had useful information. It actually said nothing except, "Read the instructions, dumbsh?t." He used a lot of words to say absolutely nothing...much like one of our current presidential candidates does on a regular basis. Zero useful info...totally worthless posts. Posts by others actually contained helpful facts, which is what I have come to expect and often offer on this forum...not useless diatribe. I learned long ago that if I had nothing to say, it was always better to say nothing.

Perhaps my question seemed stupid, but I hoped someone could give me a valid reason to alter my habits (at what has now turned into some considerable extra expense...but what the hell, I heard I won't be allowed to take any of that money with me). Thankfully, our nation's teachers don't react to our kids with condescending answers when they ask what might initially seem to be a stupid question. In my 25 years on the local SAR group, I've seen people do some unbelievably boneheaded things. If I had treated any one of them as if they were an unbelievable bonehead, I'd have been out of the organization in a heartbeat. And what would be the reason to so do anyway? Condescension is simply the compensation mechanism of someone who mistakenly believes he or she is superior to anyone else.

 

[verdesardog]

It may be overkill for this application (kinda like a 100W panel being overkill for simply maintaining a Jeep battery), but I ordered a Square D 30A 600V DC Disconnect box/switch to put between the panel and controller. I also ordered a meter that will be mounted near the controller to continuously monitor voltage output from the controller at the various battery settings. So I'll be able to attach the battery clamps in the Jeep, then connect the panel by simply throwing the switch...and easily disconnect the panel before removing the clamps.

Since I work with one of the busiest Search and Rescue groups in the country (we had #105 for the year this morning), I won't always have the option of connecting or disconnecting at night or covering the roof-mounted panel. Hopefully, this will work.

That sounds good since your battery will be connected to the controller first, the shading the panels is not so very important. I also am in search and rescue here in Sedona, AZ we just got a commendation from the state for being the busiest SAR posse in the state!

 

[moabian]

That sounds good since your battery will be connected to the controller first, the shading the panels is not so very important. I also am in search and rescue here in Sedona, AZ we just got a commendation from the state for being the busiest SAR posse in the state!

I kinda figured that from your name. I assume you are a dog handler from your photo. We have a fantastic dog handler. She and her dog train a HUGE amount in Utah and Colorado. Looks like it might be the same breed of dog as yours...australian something if I remember right. Congrats on the commendation...did it come with money for the group? Just curious...how busy is the busiest in the Arizona? We had 2 today...for a 2016 total of 106 so far...and there may be another one in the works. It looks like we will smash last year's all-time record of 138. I shouldn't have spoken so soon...pager just went off again...I'm off on number 107.

 

[dwh]

Condescending diatribe from the typical, small-minded internet jerk doesn't bother me.

Well...if that's true, why spend so much effort whining about it?

I know that the vast majority of them would not have the courage to say the same things in the same tone to a real person standing in front of them.

No doubt true. But I'm not one of them. I would've said exactly the same thing in person. The only difference is you would have been able to hear me laughing my *** off while I said it.

The initial response in this thread would not have been so objectionable if it at least had useful information. It actually said nothing except, "Read the instructions, dumbsh?t."

That's not at all what I said. Why would I? You'd obviously already read the manual.

Zero useful info...totally worthless posts.

Really? Telling you how to choose a profile for the Odyssey had no value whatsoever?

You see, I *did* answer the one question you asked that wasn't already answered by the manual that you'd already read.

And hey, you did decide to follow the instructions after all, so despite having a rash from getting your panties in a knot, it's all good.

 

[pugslyyy]

So am I the only one who is wondering why would you want to disconnect the battery from the charge controller? It never occurred to be that this is something I might want to do.