Spooling new synth line on winch?

[ntsqd]

One potential problem that I see with the spooling device is the way that it generates tension. With a steel cable it would be no problem. I worry that with a synthetic line that there is the potential to damage the line from the friction.

I like the idea of the criss-cross spooling. I wonder if there isn't a simple RoT that would relate line diameter to maximum tension before the line's pulling between the under wraps becomes a problem?

 

[Antichrist]

This is where steel is almost worthless because the spring tension in the steel cablewont allow the line to be moved to the other side real easily.

Now that is odd too. I've done with wire rope the exact process you describe a number of times for extreme side pulls, including where I've had to go 90 degrees to the side (because I only had one snatch block) so I could pull the rear end around.

 

[d1sc0ver]

Partial hijack but in regards to spooling. I saw these a few years ago. While its more than an end user needs to spend it might not be bad for a shop or club to purchase and offer as a service to their customers/members?

http://www.knightscan.com/product.htm

Looks like it only works on roller-fairleads, not Hawes.

 

[muskyman]

Now that is odd too. I've done with wire rope the exact process you describe a number of times for extreme side pulls, including where I've had to go 90 degrees to the side (because I only had one snatch block) so I could pull the rear end around.

key word "real easily" you can do it but its not near the simple process it is with synthetic. Like I said with my hydro in high range I can do it in just seconds.

This is the last place I have steel and it needs to go at some point...the thing is a awesome tool but I have just come to hate working with steel cable so I need to swap it.

 

[Antichrist]

Looks like it only works on roller-fairleads, not Hawes.

Well, you could get a Thomas winch that has a built in device for smooth laying of the cable.

 

[Master-Pull]

I've used Puget's "plasma", and Amsteel Blue - no discernable difference, really, although both will tell you theirs is better, of course. Most of them seem to have about the same specs, although your XD is the Icelandic one (I forget the real name ), and is a cut above the rest at least in terms of breaking strain. I use 11mm, but I expect the problem would be worse with thinnner ropes.

The Plasma is a heat resistant rope, but yes it is essentially very similar to the Amsteel Blue made by Samson. I haven't yet found a downside to the criss-crossing, except that it takes up more space and doesn't look as nice. I would like to emphasize how important it is to clean the rope as often as you can, the best way is to push it together like a finger trap and run water between the strands. This will remove any grit that can damage the rope as you spool it over itself.

-Alex

 

[michaelgroves]

I wonder if there isn't a simple RoT that would relate line diameter to maximum tension before the line's pulling between the under wraps becomes a problem?

I think it's hugely dependent on how the lower layers are spooled - if they are spooled tightly and close together, it's much less likely to happen. I suppose an ideal spooling pattern would be all tightly parallel at a slight angle in one direction, and then neatly at the opposite angle when you're spooling the next layer. Life's too short, though!

 

[michaelgroves]

The Plasma is a heat resistant rope, but yes it is essentially very similar to the Amsteel Blue made by Samson.
-Alex

Sadly, the plasma is not heat resistant! It has the same temperature specifications as the Amsteel (or very close). Personally, I think Puget have been very clever, and thought up an additional final "plasma" process that does no harm and sounds impressive, and gives them a unique selling point. I've yet to see a compelling benefit of the "plasma" process. Not that I think it's not good rope - I just wouldn't pay a significant premium for it.

 

[Master-Pull]

Sadly, the plasma is not heat resistant! It has the same temperature specifications as the Amsteel (or very close). Personally, I think Puget have been very clever, and thought up an additional final "plasma" process that does no harm and sounds impressive, and gives them a unique selling point. I've yet to see a compelling benefit of the "plasma" process. Not that I think it's not good rope - I just wouldn't pay a significant premium for it.

My mistake, the Plasma rope WARN sells is heat resistant because of the Nomex cover they put on part of the rope.

-Alex

 

[Master-Pull]

I think it's hugely dependent on how the lower layers are spooled - if they are spooled tightly and close together, it's much less likely to happen.

Having the wraps on the drum very close to each other prevents the line from cutting through, it is difficult to do this when you get to the ends of the drum though. When I spool I have someone 'bump' the winch controller 'in,' instead of holding it 'in,' so the winch slows down enough to get the rope on the drum neatly and tightly.

-Alex

 

[ntsqd]

I think it's hugely dependent on how the lower layers are spooled - if they are spooled tightly and close together, it's much less likely to happen. I suppose an ideal spooling pattern would be all tightly parallel at a slight angle in one direction, and then neatly at the opposite angle when you're spooling the next layer. Life's too short, though!

It's a non-starter with your suggested criss-cross method.

I can see that getting it wound on tight is important, but as the layers build up on the drum I can't help but think that the possibility of the line 'splitting' the lower wrap under load would increase. So maybe such an RoT would be worthless as it would also depend on the number of wraps and be too hard to remember and apply quickly. Oh well, it was just a thought.

 

[emmodg]

Which rope are you running? I have never had a problem with my line cutting through the layers underneath. I do re-spool it after every trail run and sometimes during a run if it gets too messy.

-Alex

Glad someone else hasn't had a problem with "cut-through". I haven't either but it seems that every other instructor has!

 

[emmodg]

Hey Alex,

Have you had trouble with knot sinnets(daisy chains) "burning/crushing" poly at their over-laps? I've seen what appear to be burn marks at each overlap of a daisy chain when used in HilLift winching demonstrations.

 

[Master-Pull]

Hey Alex,

Have you had trouble with knot sinnets(daisy chains) "burning/crushing" poly at their over-laps? I've seen what appear to be burn marks at each overlap of a daisy chain when used in HilLift winching demonstrations.

Can you send me a picture of what you are talking about, I am trying to visualize this. I haven't used a Hi-Lift to winch with ever, I have seen it done with chain though.

-Alex

 

[emmodg]

I'll see if I can dig up a pic of some kind.

When using a "daisy chain" in a winch extension for HiLift winching, the "over-laps" or "loops" in the daisy chain appear to heat/burn/crush the rope.

That probably confused you more - I'll have to find a pic...