TCO: why we deciced not to get a Sportsmobile (yet :-)

[cweight]

We took another pass at getting a Sportsmobile. This time is was more serious than ever. But when I ran the numbers, we just could not justify it.

I ran some rough Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) numbers on both new and lightly used. They came in much higher than expected and scared us away, for now. One day, when we are not working full-time and we can take a couple of years to play in the Sportsmobile, it might make sense, but not now.

I thought others might find the calculations interesting. I made a lot of assumptions and took quite a few short-cuts, so one could easily argue with the approach, but I think that regardless of the details, the overall picture is sound.

Overall cost: $110K new, $77K used, includes WA state sales tax. (E350 V10, RB50, penthouse, 4x4, plus some extras but not too many)

New:
Depreciation: $5,500/yr $458/mo
Interest/LOC: $4,400/yr $367/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $632/yr $53/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $14,332/yr $1,194/mo

Used:
Depreciation: $5,133/yr $428/mo
Interest/LOC: $3,080/yr $257/mo
Fuel: $2,333/yr $194/mo
Other: $1,167/yr $97/mo
Insurance: $608/yr $51/mo
Registration: $300/yr $25/mo
Total: $12,621/yr $1,027/mo

Depreciation: I assumed 20 years for new, 15 years for used, value $0 at end.
Interest/Lost opportunity cost: Some money may come from loan, some from savings. I either pay interest on the loan or I miss out on earnings from savings. Assume 4%/year (non-depreciated). This is a real SWAG but I think it is fair.
Fuel: 7K miles/year @ 12mpg & $4/gallon
Other: assume repairs and maintenance cost half the fuel cost
Insurance: I got quotes from my insurance company

Things that jumped out for me:
* Overall, not a huge savings for used - might as well get exactly what we want new.
* The yearly cost is way too high for casual use. Whether you calculate cost/mile or cost/day spent in the Sportsmobile, it just does not cut it. For that kind of money we could take luxury treks in Bhutan or a cruise to Antarctica.
* The biggest costs by far are depreciation/LOC -the bottom line is that dumping $100K+ into a vehicle is seriously expensive.

We are now looking for a hard-sided pop-up trailer for the Pacific Northwest monsoon season and will tent camp otherwise. One day maybe, we'll just say screw the TCO numbers, but not yet.

Cheers,
Chris.

 

[Christian P.]

Chris

very interesting calculations, and I think you are spot on.

just fyi, I will be selling my Bigfoot/Chevy 4x4 combo very soon. it's a lot bigger than a Sportsmobile, but at $18K there is no more depreciation and it's great for the cold/rainy Northwest weather.

 

[Clutch]

http://www.ujointoffroad.com/forsale.html Granted the lift is a bit too high, and the wheels are tad ridiculous.

You are right down the road from GTRV, have them throw in a poptop and you're done.

http://www.gtrv.com/

GTRV's poptop is much cleaner looking than a Sports Mobile anyway. While open and closed.



You can get into a 4WD van for under $30K if you look hard enough...heck I have buddy who found one for under $20K
Coil sprung front end/diesel to boot. Did the interior himself and kept in simple.

 

[Gooseberry]

You know why make payments to a bank? just start putting it in a SMB fund and once ready make no more payments. LOL mine started as a Harley fund and I ended up with a bike from a old friend / Boss after he passed and just kept making payment to myself and dam if the right van did not present it self and I had the cash.

now its just fun and not a payment.

 

[Toolman]

Build it yourself, and over the next couple years you could be using it on the weekends on the way to retirement and build it for less than half of what a used would cost.

It can happen if you let it.

 

[Riptide]

Well, if you take care of it, I can't see where a 100K vehicle is worth nothing at the end of 20 years. It depends on the vehicle, I guess. I'm always amazed at was a used VW Westy Synchro commands these days...

We have a small camper that gets used maybe a total of 25-30 days a year. If I pro-rate it, camping per night isn't cheap. But, when I think of the places we've been, and the flexibility it's given us, and the memories my daughter will have, it's a no-brainer for me. I've never once regretted it...

 

[djm68]

I did a similar calculation and also decided not to buy a fully decked SMB. I did, however, still buy a van:

2009 Ford E350SD, diesel, converted to 4x4 by Quadvan NW; includes upgraded wheels tires, dual shock setup, steering stabilizer, etc. 15,000 miles on the clock, stole it for $30k. Took the van to SMB West and added a poptop: roughly $8k. So I am in for just under $40k, and already have a rig that is highly suitable for good weather camping. I will do some of the interior myself, but will have the "big" work done by Van Specialties, right here in Portland OR. They are know for their very high quality work and being local I will be able to inspect the work as it is being done. I figure $10-15k, at most for the interior. Roughly $50k for like new 4x4 van, interior done as I like, for less than half of a new SMB.

Cheers,
DJM

 

[Saiyan66]

Lets face it, NEW Sportsmobiles are usually purchased by people who have the disposable income, and not the time to build one themselves. The rest of us will find the time, build one on our own and in the process save $50k. I think you should seriously consider the U-Joint Off Road van that is currently for sale. You wont find one that is mechanically better maintained or equipped. Then you can slowly add the stuff you desire to the package. Give Chris a call and pick his brain about it.

 

[dms1]

You might want to check with your accountant, but with a sportsmobile or any vehicle that has living quarters, you might be able to write off your loan interest as a second home. I have friends that do this with their accountants blessing. Could help save some money in the end.

 

[haven]

Thanks, Cweight, for your analysis.

I agree with Riptide's point that a 20 year old Sportsmobile is worth more than zero dollars. If you search Craigslist, you can find 20 year old Sportsmobiles. 2WD models have asking prices around $8-$10K.

If you don't already own a second home, then interest payments on your RV can qualify for a second home deduction. The truck has to have permanently installed facilities for eating, sleeping and toilet functions. The "permanently installed" part is to keep people from putting a sleeping bag and Porta-Potti in a box truck, and calling it a second home. If you build the camper yourself, you may need to get it inspected and certified as an RV to avoid problems with the IRS when you take the deduction.

 

[2wheelbob]

I bought a used 2002 SMB back in 2009 from the original owners. It has the Quigley 4x4 system, Reunel bumpers with winch, penthouse top, V-10 gas engine, 17" custom wheels/tires, 46 gal fuel tank, etc. The van had about 97k on the chassis. We now have 160k on the van, which includes 4 cross country trips, a trip up the AlCan highway and back, countless trips to Utah (Moab), Colorado (all the passes around Ouray), the Beartooths, the west coast (Washignton/Oregon coast). If one was to rely solely on the 'numbers', I suppose one would never leave the couch. My wife and I were commenting just the other day that the van was one of the best purchases we have made and the memories it has given us and the times we have spent together are truly priceless. I realize that not everyone's situation is the same but I caution against worry too much about money and missing out on living your life. After all, this isn't a dress rehearsal and tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Best of luck to you! See you on the road....

 

[Explorer 1]

Over priced product

Unfortunately, The SMB product has been over priced for some time. Those owners who bit the bullet (myself included) and paid the top dollars in the past for a new one have suffered when it came to resale time. I still have mine for now but have been disappointed with the quality of workmanship on the items mfg. and/or installed by SMB.

As time goes on and other products come to light (competing with their off road version) they may have to really evaluate their quality control and pricing.

Thanks,
Fred
Explorer 1

 

[2wheelbob]

I agree with you Fred. As a current SMB owner, I can say I would never buy a new one. The initial buy in is way over priced, especially where SMB build quality is average at best. A nice new 1-ton pick-up and a four-wheel brand camper slide-in are a better value. As you have stated, the resale is a hit for those who bought new but also can be a plus for those looking for a bargain on the used market. We looked for a few months and found the right truck for us. We paid $45k less than the new price, which made our truck a deal. When we go to resell it, as long as everything works and it shows nice, we won't get hurt. It pays to do one's homework and really be honest with ones self about what you really need. It took me 40 years to figure out that lesson

peace, Bob

 

[billwilson]

Edit:
Sorry, i forget how thin skinned folks are
and the easy mis-interpretation of what is written

Disclaimer:
I am NOT advocating new, used, smb, ford, chev, slide in
trailers or what ever

The point i am trying to get across is
waiting to save a few bucks or keeping the comfort level lower
by having a older or more cost effective rig, may NOT be worth it in the long haul.....

I have a TON of clients that scrimped and saved
only to lose the spouse unexpectedly, or lose their health
so they could not travel or IMHO the worst: Leave it to thier
fully ungratefull kids that spend in a week what mom and dad saved over
40 years......

Story:

I am a Estate Planner by trade
I have to crunch numbers for solutions for my clients on a daily basis

The Math is The Math
... however it must be tempered with numbers that dont work......

example:
$50,000 kitchen remodel because the wife wants one
$20,000 cruise with kids and grandkids

NOT cost effective whatsoever

That said and done, i have a picture of the above wife
sitting in her kitchen with a Sxxt eating grin sipping a cuppa coffee
Given to me by her husband....after she died...
She only got 4 months outta the kitchen
He has NEVER regretted the cost.....

I have another picture of a fat, white, beached whale
in a cruise ship pool with his kids and grandkids and a umbrella drink
The same Sxxt eating grin on his face
...he didnt make it 4 months
The widow thanks me everytime we talk for getting them on the cruise

None of the above had any prior health problems
None of the above where that old.....

Another Case:
I just got around to sorting out my wifes and mine
digital pictures
(4 years worth, first wife, new marriage)

The first trip we took was to Sample Meadows meeting another
group of SMB'ers

First trip = Highest Cost of Ownership
... IMHO, the experiance and memories justify
the entire cost.

Add in two more years of once in a lifetime trips
and IMHO the cost of ownership is Zero

Ask yourself, what is a killer week or 10 days with wife worth
if it is the Last Trip you will make......

I know, i know, i hear this all the time as an Estate Planner
we are young
we are healthy
we cant afford it
we have kids in school
ALL these are a non issue if you cant make the trip

Just my Two Satang

bw

 

[2wheelbob]

Exactly, Bill!