Tesla Powerwall

david506th

Adventurer
http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

Caught my eye on the Yahoo News section. I am seriously researching about the lithium technology though only just begun. As well I have heard mystical stories of how Tesla will change the world. Well how does this battery pack do it for us. I know this is a wall mounted option but for the price could it be re purposed easily for our usage here. Is it viable for something like large RV use or Expo Camper use?

David
 

workerdrone

Part time fulltimer
I guess it remains to be seen how they compete with the rest of the world on a kwh per $ basis with their lithium batteries. The little blurb I heard so far prices sounded pretty good, still not going to compete with the 1 or 2 traditional deep cycle / dual purpose battery crowd in RV land, but could have implications on the high end of things
 

Dan Grec

Expedition Leader
So far the price is good - not world-altering, but better than a lot of people were expecting.

When the Gigafactory 1 ramps up late next year, expect prices to start falling, rapidly.

Once Gigafactory 2/3/4/5/6 are up to speed - then we're talking about world-altering.

-Dan
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Hrmm...the 10kw model is over 800 amp*hours at 12v. Weighs 100 kg or 220 lbs. For 3,500 bucks, that's seriously doable for a truck or boat. Seven inches by 34 inches by 52 inches is also doable for a truck or boat.

Screw the house - I want one under the couch in my camper.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
The 350-400volts might require a bit of a re-wire and some new inverters etc :)

You'd have to do that to hook it up to a 120v/240v grid-tied house anyway. No doubt Tesla will see to it that the assorted bits needed to actually use the thing will be available.
 

Azazruk

New member
That was a good video and I sure hope some states will start giving credits to encourage people to buy.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Most articles highlight the economic stupidity of Tesla's Powerwall. It only makes sense off-grid and requires heavy subsidies.

How You Get Suckered

Denninger's point is correct...as far as it goes.

But his numbers are a bit off. The average cost of electricity to residential customers in the U.S. was 12.3 cents/kwh in Feb. of this year, which is up from 11.9 a year earlier - it's only 10c per/kwh if you factor in commercial and industrial customers who can get quantity discounts. In half a dozen states, it's up around 20c per, and in Hawaii, 30c per:

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a



Where his argument falls apart, is that he failed to take tiered rate plans into account, which are usually either tiered by how much is used per month:

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/tiers/index.page

Or, by time of day:

http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/tou/index.page?


That PG&E plan goes from 15c at night, to 35c during peak hours (rounded off).


So....lemme see...just taking a WAG that say 1/3 of daily use is during that peak time. Average monthly use per residence is 909 kwh:

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3

So that would be a savings of 20c/kwh x 303 kwh/month = $60.60 per month. Times 120 months = $7272.

Okay, so it's conceivable that used purely for a load-shifting strategy (no solar) it could at least pay for itself...in some areas...maybe...depending...

But If the price of the hardware comes down (which it might), or if the price of electricity keeps going up (which it will), then eventually, it might be smart to have it for load-shifting.

Add in the cost of solar and forget it - it'll probably never pay for itself.


But subsidizing might be worth doing if it enables large scale load-shifting - which averages the daily load on the grid and delays the cost of adding generating capacity to the grid.



But yea...like I said - screw the house, I want it for my camper.
 

toyotech

Expedition Leader
People always say it takes to long to pay for itself but how long do you have to have PG&E before it pays for itself. As long as solar/battery can provide power for less month to month. It's already paying for it self.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
People always say it takes to long to pay for itself but how long do you have to have PG&E before it pays for itself. As long as solar/battery can provide power for less month to month. It's already paying for it self.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Seriously?

It's paid for itself when the cost has been fully amortized. If it costs 10 grand to get it up and running, then it hasn't paid for itself until it's shaved 10 grand off the power bill.

Until then - yes, it is technically "paying for" itself. But the bottom line is still red ink until it's fully paid itself off.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
......But yea...like I said - screw the house, I want it for my camper.


Off-grid makes sense.

On-grid PowerWall will be severely challenged as subsidies disappear.

Tesla has 2 or 3 quarters before their cash burn rate forces some hard decisions.
 

toyotech

Expedition Leader
Seriously?

It's paid for itself when the cost has been fully amortized. If it costs 10 grand to get it up and running, then it hasn't paid for itself until it's shaved 10 grand off the power bill.

Until then - yes, it is technically "paying for" itself. But the bottom line is still red ink until it's fully paid itself off.

Idk where you live but in California. HO pay anywhere between 100-900 a month in electric bills.

With a solar and battery set up. You pay a month payment usually 10-20% less than your current bill.

Your already paying for power. Why not just pay less.

Solar companies are basically power companies who sell you power for less
With a battery system. You can just about go off the grid.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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