The case for highly customized older domestics for world travel

[Cat Jockey]

What I want to spend the least amount of time on is parts and service availability. 5-10 years ago, without a sat phone, a traveler was completely reliant upon that country's infrastructure for communication with the outside world. Sat phones are cheaper, and, more importnatly, there is now global sattelite internet coverage. Information, like valuable service information to use yourself in the field or to relay to an in country mechanic used to working on Mercedes, Toyota, Land Rovers, VW bugs, etc. is available independent of that country's communications infrastructure now. HUGE difference today than even just 5-10 years ago.

Further, unless there is civil strife, which most travelers want to avoid, getting a something from point A on the globe to point B continues to do what it has for centuries upon centuries - get easier. Add to that that today it is 2011, with 2013 being a departure date for me and after 2016, 2017 until I plan to jump across the pond and out of South/Central/North America. Point being, how much easier will it be in 2017, 6 years down the road for me to get domestic parts in the second world? Even easier than today according to history.

Getting parts and incountry knowledge continues to be less of an issue every year IMO. The problem is going away.

That addresses my opinion of that issue, but it leads me to my real point - avoiding the issue of having to get parts and service in the first place. The strength, I believe, of highly customized domestic platforms. This is not a flag waving thing I am doing, so please do not take offense, but in the same vein that it is accurate to say that the German company, Mercedes, leads the world in having established a world wide truck service network, it is also accurate to say that the American auto consumer and racing/competion industry leads the world in car customization, a culture dating back very heavily to pre - WWII.

If you stop and think about the cumlative amount of knowledge about anything relating to automobiles that lies outside the realm of the auto manufacturing industry and their engineers, it is huge. In fact, I would argue it larger as we (the entirety of the consumer base) know everything they know + everything we know. Everything being things like - How do you make a classic Bronco fly through the air at 50 mph over sand dunes without exploding upon impact? We got it figured out. How do you take that same Bronco and build it to handle 44" tires 550 HP and drive over boulders the size of VW bugs? We got that figured out too. Wanna take that same Bronco, tub, it 2WD it and put an 900 HP engine and a wheelie bar and run 9 second quarter miles at the drag strip without twisting the frame in half? No problem.

How that relates is that from racing deserts to rock crawling to drag strips to NASCAR to dirt track to bush waking on no roads - et cetera and on and on and on - we know what works and what doesn't when customizing domestics. There has been so much customization of domestics in so many ways, more so than any other group of vehicles from any part of the world.

If we know how to build an axle to handle the loads of a 550 hp engine turning 44" tires full throttle trying to get up a rock while bouncing up and down catching moments of traction (HUGE strain on entire drivetrain), then I can certainly build an axle to handle much less HP moving a good amount of weight over a challenging 4WD road with a skilled driver not pushing the rig without beaking an axle or diff. Parts and service WILL NOT be a problem as they will not be neccesary. Yes anything can happen, but the point is that I would be much more worried about dying in car crash or getting robbed in a foreign country than a properly built Ford 9" disintegrating in the middle of Africa and leaving me stranded.

You can build a Ford 9" nine different ways to Sunday to handle incredible loads that surpass what an Overlander would ever imagine throwing at it. Want even more security? Take some 2.5 Ton Rockwells off of a duece & 1/2 and run on top of those. We have put those on all kinds of different domestics. From Fords to Jeeps to Chevys, etc.

There is basically no component on an older domestic platform that has not been rebuilt better by the consumer and any older domestic platform can be overbuilt for the demands of overland travel. And that, combined with contiuing and increasing ease with which parts can be moved around the globe, I think highly customized domestics to be more than suitable for world travel.

In fact, they are my preference (non-empirical but well thought and emphatic preference). And older is better for world travel IMO. Plus, you can throw whatever engine (including the diesel preference) from any manufacturer you want in there. An example would be if I were to build off of the F-Series platform, I'd get a late 70's truck. There is not one single part on that vehicle I cannot get a better version of. Nothing, down to bolts, seals, bearings, seats headlights, frame, suspension, axles, engine, etc. As far as a diesel engine, the world is my oeyster as with a vehicle that age, registering it where I live to legally drive is not a problem with any engine I put in there. In my own real world, my starting platform is a 1983 E-350 4x4 cutaway chassis. And if that falls through in the next 6 months and I have to downgrade my budget, plan B vehicle for world travel is a classic Ford Bronco (1966 - 1977) or Jeep Scrambler (1981 - 1986).

And if I had the funds to tear it down and build it from the wheels up, well, I ain't breakin' down, but I would be more than happy to transport the unfortunate traveler with the non-customized mercedes, mitsi, isuzu, etc., that just broke down to the nearest world service center 50 kM down the road.

Sit back and enjoy the ride in this highly customized 2-4 decade old domestic - she'll get us there.

 

[1leglance]

I understand your point and agree with much of it...
I would take it a step further an point out that with a bit of searching you will find hundreds of stories of people who spent very little on a "build" and just dealt with things as they broke.
Especially when you are traveling in poorer areas you will find that local mechanics can get you back on the road one way or another. It is when a person gets all wrapped up in "OEM" parts and "certified" mechanics. Ha I have been going down back roads in Peru and seen Datsun B210s going slowly with some smoke, but they were going and that is all that matters.
VW Buses have been down pretty much every road on this planet and many of those pretty tough tracks. And the more money I have spent in this hobby on my rig has resulted in less travel for me. Sure a case can be made that I have allowed disabled folks to go places they might not otherwise have gone.

If I could rewind the clock I would absolutely go older, rebuilt, and basic and spend the difference in actual travel.

 

[Cat Jockey]

I would take it a step further an point out that with a bit of searching you will find hundreds of stories of people who spent very little on a "build" and just dealt with things as they broke.

Indeed. People have done it in Model T's before anyone knew what a service station was driving through country after country where that was the first and only car many natives would see let alone know how to repair or even grasp the concepts invovled. Truly on their own for repairs with zero ability to communicate to the outside world. Nobody is breaking new ground today and everybody has it much easier and much safer for sure. You also bring up good points about repair. An older domestic is simple and easy for any auto mechanic to work on. I would love to see a global map demonstrating all of the successful journeys VW bugs have made on unpaved roads.

Thanks for the response. Makes me feel more assured of the direction I am taking vehicle wise hearing from somebody who has done it instead of a knucklehead like me who is in the beginning stages of doing it.

 

[Lynn]

Cat, you are sure to get some discussion on this one!

My experience with US trucks in foreign lands is limited, and not positive.

There was a truck on eBay an eon ago that may meet your definition. The guy used a Cat engine, heavy-duty drive train, custom frame built by Big Bud tractors, and put a Chevy body on it. There was a little discussion here, with details captured by Haven. Apparently it served him well.

There was also a guy that built a custom domestic (Chevy, I think), with 'race proven' aftermarket parts. IIRC he started his international tour in Australia, where he had multiple mechanical problems, couldn't get parts for his 'race proven' suspension, and ended up ditching the Chevy and buying a ROW Landcruiser to finish his travels around the world. My memory is vague on this one, so maybe someone on here can fill in details.

One point I would like to make is that even our 'endurance' races are short duration compared to the ROW trips I want to take. And not only are those race trucks rebuilt from the ground up after each (relatively short) race, they bring along a truckload of parts and mechanics. Literally. :ylsmoke:

Yes, you can get parts shipped around the world. However, I would much rather be delayed a day or two obtaining parts locally then be delayed a month or two trying to figure out international logistics. And how much is that custom, urgent, shipping going to cost? Decisions like this really hinge on where you want to travel. Mainland Europe or the Americas, sure, but have you read the Congo thread, and how much trouble they had getting parts for a 'local' vehicle? I can't imagine trying to get even simple parts for a domestic in that situation.

WRT reliability, I would argue that automotive manufacturers have far more experience in engineering parts that work together, then the cumulative aftermarket knowledge you referenced.

Pardon me for asking, but I don't know you from Adam (Internet forums are rooted in anonymity), and since your proposal is 180* out from the advice given by well-known travelers (Stephan Stewart, etc.), who recommend stock vehicles with minimum modifications, what is your experience base? What are your 'credentials?'

ADDED: Oh, and member Diplostrat traversed a lot of Africa in an old Blazer.

Evidently this is the only pic I saved of the Ruta Maya truck:

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I am a big fan of older domestic for any travel. For the cost of a stock land Cruiser of Land rover you can get "much more truck" out of a domestic full size. If you go look at the cost of parts, they are dirt cheap, especially for a chevy/gmc. Really, in my mind anyways, if you build it right and carry spare parts a domestic should not be an issue anywhere int he world.




In all reality it all comes down to a personal choice. For me a land cruiser/ land rover/range rover/4 runner looks cool and are very good vehicles off road... but I will sacrifice some of that to get healthy V-8 power, heavy duty components, and tons more room. But, I also do not rock climb, or go down narrow trails.

 

[Lynn]

Having lived and traveled in a lot of countries, I see full size American vehicles as more of a hindurance than a comfort. Other than highways, streets and trails are built and maintained to accomodate the width of the local vehicles. When I had my CJ-7 overseas (Spain and Germany) the size was great, but a lot of my co-workers with larger US vehicles had a lot of problems. In Korea, even our jeeps seemed narrow. Going anywhere in our full-sized Bronco or van was an experience. And nobody wanted to drive the Ford 6-pac. In Turkey there was an Embassy employee that brought over his Expedition. It's a wonder he ever got out of the Embassy parking lot with that thing. Oh, and you think our gas is getting expensive? US horsepower = major financing if driving in most of the rest of the world.

Just to throw a few more considerations in the ring.

 

[haven]

"There was also a guy that built a custom domestic (Chevy, I think), with 'race proven' aftermarket parts."

That fellow is Dan T. Cook. His web site is http://www.flyfishingtheglobe.net/

Dan started out from Colorado with what amounted to a detuned Chevrolet Baja 1000 racer. (Dan raced in Baja in 2005, I think.) The specs are here http://www.flyfishingtheglobe.net/truck_baja.htm

After this setup proved to be unreliable in Australia, Dan switched to a Toyota Land Cruiser 78 with Campa trailer. This vehicle worked very well, allowing Dan to visit 25 countries in 27 months, traveling 75,000 miles. The specs are here: http://www.flyfishingtheglobe.net/truck.htm

I think this Land Cruiser eventually ended up with Proffitts Cruisers in Colorado. Proffitts has a LC 78 for sale today. http://www.proffittscruisers.com/

Dan sold his race truck, and it continues to be raced in an assortment of off-road events.

 

[kerry]

I've had some experience with non-native trucks in foreign lands. I've owned a Mercedes 409d in the USA. Even though Mercedes has a reputation for worldwide parts availability, finding parts for their pre-Sprinter vans in the USA is VERY difficult. At one time Europa in Santa Fe had the parts microfiche since the owner had himself imported the 409d I owned. There was one other place I found in the NW which had access to parts catalogs. Eventually I discovered that the easiest way to get parts was to talk to the export director of EuroCarParts in the UK and have them ship to me. Shipping usually took 10-14 days. I also used them when I owned a 307d in the UK and drove it to the continent. Since I don't speak German, I needed a European parts supplier who could speak English.
So far in my life, I've been broken down in the US, Canada, the UK, and France. I've had to wait days for parts, never weeks so far. No matter what the vehicle, I try to carry a range of spare parts but it's always possible that a part will break which is not readily available. It's part of the adventure.

 

[Lynn]

"There was also a guy that built a custom domestic (Chevy, I think), with 'race proven' aftermarket parts."

That fellow is Dan T. Cook...

Once again, details provided by Haven. Thank you sir, you are veritable encyclopedia when it comes to, well, most anything it seems.

My apologies to Mr. Cook for forgetting his name and details.

One of the places I'd like to visit is Bulgaria. Just for fun I looked at fuel prices online. ~1.29 Euro/Litre. If I did my math right that's about $6.80 per gallon. My small budget will take me a lot farther without V8 power.

Also, I recall that insurance for my Jeep in Spain was through the roof, because they based the rate on the engine horsepower. That 258 had a lot more horses then my buddies 600CC Seat.

But the main thing is 'get out there,' right? If you want to take a limo to Timbuctu, more power to ya! Just trying to make sure you've considered all the angles.

 

[1leglance]

Overland Journal did a great article on a lady who bought a Chevy van for $500? in Arizona and then drove down to Central America...and she dealt with issues in route.

I am pretty sure that there is enough to explore between the upper end of Alaska and the Darien Gap in Panama that any ol' cheap vehicle that has been given a basic go through, had a decent driver who was easy on the skinny pedal and the rest of the money spent on travel would in YEARS of fun.

Now when you add a lady who wants comfort, a couple of kids, and some good ol' American Spoiled Brat Syndrome you end up in a mega buid that never actually goes anywhere.

Not counting those who can afford expensive mega rigs, really the majority of us would be better off buying something we like and just hitting the road, to modifications as the road teaches you what is needed and post up lots of pics & thoughts for the rest of us.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

really the majority of us would be better off buying something we like and just hitting the road

Probably the best advice I have seen on this website. Not to be insulting, but some people seem to put more effort into building there vehicle than using it.

 

[Cat Jockey]

After this setup proved to be unreliable in Australia, Dan switched to a Toyota Land Cruiser 78 with Campa trailer. This vehicle worked very well, allowing Dan to visit 25 countries in 27 months, traveling 75,000 miles.

This had something to do with it, I am sure:

Dan started out from Colorado with what amounted to a detuned Chevrolet Baja 1000 racer.

When contemplating building an engine, you look at power, reliability and longevity. And then pick two of the three. And then decide which of the two is most important and focus more on that to the loss of the other. I think that same thing applies to pretty much any modification you do on a vehicle. You can take a an old Chevy truck frame and build it rock solid reliable. Won't be the fastest, won't be able to jump over cars or climb boulders the size of cars, won't run a 9 second 1/4 mile, won't be able to handle high speed jumps ...

... but you can certainly build one differently than did Dan and have it perform the same function as his LC. Flawlessly and without mechanical failure.

I'll bet Dan's rig was a kick in the pants to drive when it was running though.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Personally, I carry spare u-joints, IP shut-off, belts, hoses, oil filter, and some other small electrical components...

That is how I think too. I would rather carry parts like that with, regardless of the vehicle I am driving. Lot's of little spare piece and parts. A couple other things I thought of providing both space and weight allow is a spare starter. Maybe even an alternator. One of my main objectives is self sufficiency in all areas as much as possible. Diesel fuel is about the only thing I want to be dependent upon the 'outside world' for. Including wanting to do as many repairs as possible myself. I'll obviously need more at some point(s), but less dependency is better.

 

[LukeH]

Now here’s one of those debates that could almost rival the LC vs LR bashing that pops up across the net.
A lot of what I have to say has already been said, I just like to add to the fray.
If you are mistrusting or simply afraid of all that is electronic wizardry then opting for an older vehicle is a logical choice.
(Ironic that you’re talking about relying on electronic wizardry to get parts sent to where you need them ;-))
I’m going to try to follow your logic with my own comments.
“Keep it simple” should be defined as “keeping it within one’s own technical comfort zone”.
A perfectly respectable philosophy but which can limit a person sometimes.
Now, older is simpler, but also possibly more tired. So you replace the parts you think might need it by precaution. While you’re at it, instead of replacing with stock, why not get a stronger part. Maybe the stock part isn’t even available any more.
The stronger part however will need stronger supports, connectors, shafts etc.
For every stronger part you put on, you’re pushing the weak point somewhere else.
And there will always be a weak point. You can replace everything, with bigger, better, stronger. To a point where you feel confident that there’s nothing left that can break.
Even the chassis. Note it’s a matter of what you feel confident with, not a matter of “it won’t break”, because something will. Inevitably.
You will end up with a truck you’ll be very proud of, that will have cost a pretty packet, look American (that’s a matter of taste; some countries associate that with…) and be lots of fun to use.
But it will still be old, noisy, draughty perhaps, and the ergonomics somewhat dated. Hours and hours at the wheel are going to be less comfortable than your DD. It will have quirks and behavioural characteristics that only you can master, because you built it.
It will truly be YOUR CREATION.
And it will be considerably heavier than the original; I don’t know what registration docs list in the states, but I’m sure the total loaded weight permitted features there somewhere. The heavier the truck the less you can carry. How much water/diesel/ did you want to carry?
Fuel consumption is also an issue; heavier/bigger/stronger will automatically mean more gluglug Whatever; you’re rich because you were able to afford all those upgrades so the cost of fuel isn’t an issue; ah but you can’t carry as much because you’ve lost loading capacity.
Remember also that for all you work on it, your RTW trip will have you running close to maximum load for your car.
But at this stage why custom-ISE? Why RE-build? You might be better to take a blank piece of paper and spec it from the ground up; then if you’re uncomfortable with bodywork put a comfortable cab on the top. That’s a custom build; no RE- and no –ISE.
But as with anything new there will always be teething troubles, or shakedown fixes necessary. How long they last is difficult to determine

Which brings us back to reliability, IMHO it’s somewhat arrogant to say “it won’t break”. There are so many factors both from the driver’s style/behaviour and from the environment in which you find yourself that it’s impossible to foresee EVERY problem and compensate for it. Something will break. De-tuning a Baja racer was a theoretical way of making sure the components were no longer being worked at their max. It doesn’t appear to have worked.
Car companies spend a lot of time and money analysing what will break, what are the circumstances and consequences and whether to do something about it. Inevitably, for one group of end users or type of use, they’ll get it wrong.
So the following model will compensate for that. The more modern you go the better the car companies have been able to calculate and develop the whole ensemble as an integrated unit. This is to your advantage right up to the era just before electronics were introduced into the component where you personally don’t want them (probably the engine).
My observation of fora like this one is that those who spend all this time thinking of the modifications and “improvements” are almost always those who are prevented from getting out there and doing it, for whatever reason.

This bit is going to annoy more than one: most of the reasons for not “going” are self inflicted; think about it as objectively as you can without getting angry.

And those people who are out there doing it are running close to stock, have saved a packet of time and money which they’re now spending travelling, and have fixed what broke (even with improvements) along the way.
If you really want to customise, THEIR experience is worth a thousand times the sales banter written or waffled in front of you by the guy that wants to sell you those sexy poly-delta-dana springumybobs that will make your truck indestructible (and fill their pockets doing so).
Global parts availability, global dealer network?? You’re running a risk not taking a Mercedes?
All very good in theory, but This is where Murphy’s law steps in in force:
Regardless of how you came to chose that particular vehicle, You will always need the part that isn’t in stock, it will always have to come from somewhere else. The dealer network will be slower than your phone +DHL, and not always cheaper. A friend got a brake drum for his Kenworth sent to Spain in 24 hours; it sat over a week in Spanish customs: he was unlucky. I got suspension bushes for an Iveco Daily 4x4 sent out to Ziguinchor in less than a week: I was lucky.
As you originally proposed, I don’t think the “global support network” is a deciding factor in vehicle choice any more.
You will always find a way of getting on the road again, once you’re on the road.

It’s getting on the road in the first place that is so difficult!

Here’s what I suggest:
Buy a proven platform as recent as you possibly can (pre-electronic engine of course) for cab comfort and integral solidity reasons. Preferably diesel, but even that’s a personal choice. Learn about its weak points on the internet, from TRAVELLERS. Upgrade or simply renew only those points. Rip out the cab or safety electronics you feel uncomfortable with (ABS? Radio? GPS?)
GO!
That will cost so much less!
So you have a fixed departure date; instead of spending the money customising the truck while you’re waiting have a holiday or two, or put it to one side for that inevitable DHL courier. Or save it to treat yourselves to a decent hotel when you feel that She’s at cracking point with this RTW trip.
If you want great big tyres get a truck that was originally designed to run them (etc. etc.) Mine is stock with parabolic springs, lockers all round and 365/85r20 with an 8 tonne payload capacity. Commercial vehicles are designed to do hundredS of thousandS of miles without problems; cars are designed for A hundred thousand. They generally cost less second hand and you don’t really have to worry about overloading. The only place I wouldn’t follow a LR in my truck is into narrow streets, but then I hate towns, cities and even villages, so that’s ok.
Of course this is only what I would suggest, don’t get angry with me for expressing my point of view please (I now feel obliged to put this after every post here, because I’ve expressed an opinion that goes against the OP)
Looking forward to more on this discussion.
Happy trails
Luke

 

[Cat Jockey]

If you are mistrusting or simply afraid of all that is electronic wizardry then opting for an older vehicle is a logical choice.
(Ironic that you're talking about relying on electronic wizardry to get parts sent to where you need them ;-))

No irony. Yea, all things being equal, give me the engine with the least amount of computer systems and electronics - simply less things to fail in the field and although those items can add effeciency and performance, a CPU for 2007 domestic I don't expect to find on the parts shelf in a foreign country. Lose a coil on a 25 y.o. domestic and you have a much, much better chance of finding an acceptable replacement.

I trust electronic wizardry, had I not dropped out of society a decade and a half ago in my mid-20's to become a ski bum, leaving a burgeoning career, and spent 1 more year in college, I would have a BS in Electrical Engineering & Mathematics. I like technology and I understand quite a bit f it as well. I just understand it is not neccessary to the system (my vehicle) to get the job done. Further, if you use computerized systems you need compterized diagnosis tools. Perhaps my biggest argument for older vehicles is not a fear of their complexity but a desire for simplicity in the powerplant and also that, depending upon the state you live in, you can do pretty much anyhting you want to those vehicles with out having registration and licsensing issues due to modification. Plus, the longer a vehicle has been around the bigger the pool of knowledge about every little piece and part on that vehicle.

Technology is sweet, I ain't skeered. I just don't mind eliminating electronics where they are not neccessary.

The stronger part however will need stronger supports, connectors, shafts etc.
For every stronger part you put on, you're pushing the weak point somewhere else.
And there will always be a weak point. You can replace everything, with bigger, better, stronger. To a point where you feel confident that there's nothing left that can break.

I understand your point but I think you might be complicating things. Building a rock solid chassis including drivetrain is easy. Not only easy, but it has been done, many, many times.

Another thing I assume, or least is a part of my argument and valid for me in my specific case, is that one is actually taking apart, rebuilding frame off. One can definitely open CraigsList, drop $7500 on a vegicle, spend another $1000 gearing it up with a RTT, etc., and head south.

I am in the process of putting together a home/office on wheels to live out of for the next several years and need at least 14,000 GVWR. So, the point of that is I have to get a chassis. Well, I actually have one - 1983 Ford 4x4 E-350 dually ambulance.

Further, the case also relies on initial cost. What does a new Fuso FG or used Unimog or F-450/550 cost? Tens of thousands for the cahssis alone. I say buy an old beater for $1000, and then drop $15,000 - $20,000 grand into the chassis / drive train / engine.

Result? Less money spent for a chassis designed more specifically to accomplish my task. Instead of having to trust a stock frame (specifically engineered to the minimum for cost effectivenenss) from not breaking I know have a completely beefed up, maybe I even welded up a new one a replaced the whole thing. same for running gear.

You can eliminate any weak links you describe for half of the money that you would spend on a new or newer cahssis. Sure every system has weak links, but give me $20,000 and I will give you a 20-40 y.o. domestic chassis with running gear and power plant that will not fail due to weak links.

Not rocket science we are talking about. Not even close. Just the latest version of the wheel is all ...

You definitely bring up good points, and I have no problems with anyone trying to find flaws in my thinking, but you are painting worse case scenarios I think:

Even the chassis. Note it's a matter of what you feel confident with, not a matter of “it won't break”, because something will. Inevitably.

You can build a frame to not break under the rigors of overland travel in my lifetime. Sure, it will eventually break, hell, it will eventually rust down to nothing - might take 3,000,000,000,000,000 miles or 1000 years to rust away, but yea, it will eventually break ...

... but not while I'm alive. And if it does? Break out the onboard welder and see if I can burn it deep enough to do a frame repair in the middles of nowhere.

I am not treading new ground here. We know how to take an older domestic frame and reinforce it properly as we, the American consumer, have dome just about every frame modification we can think of and seen those frame break every where they will break.

It will have quirks and behavioural characteristics that only you can master, because you built it.
It will truly be YOUR CREATION.

Naturally. Nobody else has any business mastering my rig anyway. Another big appeal for me, quite frankly, MY CREATION. I like that and I don't mind a vehicle with a personality unique to it. That is a snowcat in my avatar. If their are any other equipment operators on here, they might agree with me about preferring a little personality, as every large piece of equipment that has some hours on it has its own.

If it has some personality and quirks, a skilled operator will find them immediately and not give a second's thought to them. On top of that, alot of quirks can be utilized and massaged by a skilled operator to make the equipment do some pretty effective things.

The heavier the truck the less you can carry. How much water/diesel/ did you want to carry?

You definitely have a legitimate point there and one of the biggest issues, for me, quite frankly. Agree or disagree, my thoughts on dealing with that issue are:

#1 - My plan A looks real, real good right now, but it'll be about 6 months before 100% for funding. That means a nice chunk to throw at chassis reconstruction. So, get an engineer invoved and get a drawing with some kind of stamp on it. Then, see if I can use that drawing to hurdle bureaucratic red tape and upgrade my chassis from a Class 3 (14,000lbs.) to closer to 20,000. Problem solved.

#2 - If #1 is not possible, well, I want to carry ALOT of diesel and a good amount of fresh water, well ALOT of water too. However, I am not quite sure I need to drive over any scales anywhere with FULL diesel tanks or ANY water in my system.

Say goodbye to 1 ton. Now, I will have an engineer involved. Frame will be beefed with appropriate suspension, axle and driveshaft, etc. modifications. Because of the engineer, I will know my unsprung and sprung weights and every change as well as the engineering knowing what the load that chassis and running gear can safely handle. So, maybe I add 1000 lbs in axles stuff. That doesn't not change how much load my chassis can handle (providing appropriate braking), it only changes a number on an LED screen tied to a scale. Add a ton in frame reinforcement and axles? Don't drive over a scale with 2000 lbs of fluids too.

Keep in mind that plan A involves a decision between buying a new(er) chasiss and cab only running, what, $25,000 - $60,000 easy or be willing to spend some, hopefully significantly less but approaching comparable amounts in engineering and parts. And, ideally, end up with something that is better suited to both the needs of overlanding and my personal needs than could ever be delivered to me in stock form.

And once an engineer is involved, any skilled welder/fabricator can build the frame - you don't need a fancy truck frame and axle shop. You need a skilled metal fabricator with good welding skills that can read a blueprint. I mention this because I am leaning towards building a whole new frame instead of reinforcement and this is the one welding job I want to farm out. I trust my general welding skills, but I haven't worked 40 hours/week for twenty years at it.

Low budget solution? Take your drawings and put an ad on CraigsList for a welder. Plenty of out of work skilled welders that would take temporary work or welders with jobs that would put in some evenings and weekends for a bit for extra cash for a lot less than a frame shop will charge. A lot less. Someone can bring some metal saw horses and their welder and build the frame in your garage or backyard on the weekends.

This post is long enough. You bring up some great points and I don't mind looking for reasons I haven;t thought of to dissuade me from me course, so don't take offense to my point by point sharing my thoughts on some the issues you have mentioned and my contention plans.