postalWagon
Adventurer
So, now is the time to start laying out the basic lay out.
The Dakar Car
- Thread starter Metcalf
- Start date
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
I have a lot of ideas
It's tough to define the 'perfect' vehicle I think.......I had a thread going in general about this at one point, but it never really went like I wanted.
Thread here if you want to read it....
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/40075-Building-from-Scratch
I rambled about it in another thread but can't find it right now.....
postalWagon
Adventurer
Petrol or diesel
Auto or manual
Atlas 4 t-case
Wheel base and track width
leaf or coil
Auto or manual
Atlas 4 t-case
Wheel base and track width
leaf or coil
Here is Metcalf's concept, on a somewhat larger scale. Diesel engine? check. 44 inch tires? check? Bed big enough for sleeping? check.
And here's a smaller version
And a version made from a Unimog U1300 and Alaskan Camper
And the one Adventure Trailers made using parts of their Chaser trailer
And here's a smaller version
And a version made from a Unimog U1300 and Alaskan Camper
And the one Adventure Trailers made using parts of their Chaser trailer
postalWagon
Adventurer
Maybe, but they don't have an atlas 4!!!!
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Nope, there really isn't much that fits the mid-size category well. While a lot of vehicles would make ok bases, I think you would end up changing just about everything to get to the vehicle I have in my head......
I really think an enclosed rear section is important. No setting up a RTT, no tent, etc. I think an enclosed, prefereably hard sided, vehicle that you can camp in with an absolute minimum time investment for setup and take down works best for me.
It's all the little stuff that adds up on the 'wishlist' to exclude most off the shelf vehicle choices, at least in the USA. I can't help it, I am picky. Sometimes I with I could just shrink my Dodge truck down to about 3/4's the size. It's just a bit too big to cross over into anything beyond what I could call casual exploration.....technical wheeling is pretty much out if you want to keep the body intact. All in all though, for just getting from point A to point B on most 'roads' seen around the world the concept would be just fine.
I really think an enclosed rear section is important. No setting up a RTT, no tent, etc. I think an enclosed, prefereably hard sided, vehicle that you can camp in with an absolute minimum time investment for setup and take down works best for me.
It's all the little stuff that adds up on the 'wishlist' to exclude most off the shelf vehicle choices, at least in the USA. I can't help it, I am picky. Sometimes I with I could just shrink my Dodge truck down to about 3/4's the size. It's just a bit too big to cross over into anything beyond what I could call casual exploration.....technical wheeling is pretty much out if you want to keep the body intact. All in all though, for just getting from point A to point B on most 'roads' seen around the world the concept would be just fine.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
A few more thoughts...
I think the JK 4-door is just about the largest vehicle I would want to try to use. The wheelbase is just a tad long, but the belly can be made relatively smooth. The approach and departure angles are great compared to most vehicles of the same wheelbase class.
What I don't like is the 4-door JK configuration. I guess it's just not my think. I don't need the rear seats or rear doors....I need the rear cargo volume and enclosed length. I REALLY wish you could buy a 3-door ( or whatever they call it ) long wheelbase like the J8 body. I have to wonder if you could use the JK8 body kit to make something like that? Taking a new vehicle and re-making it doesn't seem THAT fun right now.... especially since they already make the J8 3-door, we just can't get it.
The other idea I have been toying with lately is using a 4-door JK and replacing the rear 'door' area with a bolt in panel that would basically convert it to a 3-door configuration and building/buying a custom long wheelbase 3-door style top. I would love to see something like that in the aftermarket, especially a purpose built light weight hard top for the 'expo' market.....
-'3-door' long wheelbase hard top
-light weight construction
-No 'freedom top', just one piece to the windshield
-No drivers side side windows ( I don't think you need it when your packed with gear )
-Large passenger side window, maybe a nice RV style tip out window with built in shade?
-Barn door rear configuration
-insulated honeycomb roof structure for sun/snow insulation
-Make the roof strong enough to stand on
-Have the roof shape designed to take a large thin film stick on solar panel that covered most of the roof.
I want a simple utilitarian vehicle.....
I think the JK 4-door is just about the largest vehicle I would want to try to use. The wheelbase is just a tad long, but the belly can be made relatively smooth. The approach and departure angles are great compared to most vehicles of the same wheelbase class.
What I don't like is the 4-door JK configuration. I guess it's just not my think. I don't need the rear seats or rear doors....I need the rear cargo volume and enclosed length. I REALLY wish you could buy a 3-door ( or whatever they call it ) long wheelbase like the J8 body. I have to wonder if you could use the JK8 body kit to make something like that? Taking a new vehicle and re-making it doesn't seem THAT fun right now.... especially since they already make the J8 3-door, we just can't get it.
The other idea I have been toying with lately is using a 4-door JK and replacing the rear 'door' area with a bolt in panel that would basically convert it to a 3-door configuration and building/buying a custom long wheelbase 3-door style top. I would love to see something like that in the aftermarket, especially a purpose built light weight hard top for the 'expo' market.....
-'3-door' long wheelbase hard top
-light weight construction
-No 'freedom top', just one piece to the windshield
-No drivers side side windows ( I don't think you need it when your packed with gear )
-Large passenger side window, maybe a nice RV style tip out window with built in shade?
-Barn door rear configuration
-insulated honeycomb roof structure for sun/snow insulation
-Make the roof strong enough to stand on
-Have the roof shape designed to take a large thin film stick on solar panel that covered most of the roof.
I want a simple utilitarian vehicle.....
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
I think the major danger here is to spend too many years dreaming, scratching your plans and starting again.
For me, the most important thing is getting out there and doing the adventure, not spending years and tens of thousands of dollars in an attempt to build the "perfect" vehicle.
Nothing is perfect, and it's highly likely that once you were "done" something new would come along and you would change your mind or keep dropping money into the thing but never have enough to take it anywhere.
One more thing to consider... if it won't fit in a standard 20 foot shipping container, it's not worth owning, IMHO.
-Dan
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Or something like this.....
I think its a little shorter than a 4door, but its just a quick 'chop.
I don't know, maybe there is a place for a simple 'bolt-on' conversion to turn a 4door JK into a simple long wheelbase 2-3 door or whatever you want to call it? I was thinking the rear 'door' area of the 4-door could be used for a lot of different things. You could have storage compartments, a slide out drawer, a simple hard cover, etc. All could just bolt into the stock door hinge arrangement. I have to wonder if the 4-door B-pillar would make it easier or harder to make a no-rear-door hard top?
I know something like that might move me from the 2-door over to the 4-door chassis. I see the 2-door as a simple lighter vehicle, but I see the 4-door chassis as able to take a slightly larger tire and maybe stouter drive-train without looking like it had been built to overkill.
I want the diesel (!) but the 5.7 VVT hemi with the new 5spd 2012 auto sounds pretty interesting..........
I think its a little shorter than a 4door, but its just a quick 'chop.
I don't know, maybe there is a place for a simple 'bolt-on' conversion to turn a 4door JK into a simple long wheelbase 2-3 door or whatever you want to call it? I was thinking the rear 'door' area of the 4-door could be used for a lot of different things. You could have storage compartments, a slide out drawer, a simple hard cover, etc. All could just bolt into the stock door hinge arrangement. I have to wonder if the 4-door B-pillar would make it easier or harder to make a no-rear-door hard top?
I know something like that might move me from the 2-door over to the 4-door chassis. I see the 2-door as a simple lighter vehicle, but I see the 4-door chassis as able to take a slightly larger tire and maybe stouter drive-train without looking like it had been built to overkill.
I want the diesel (!) but the 5.7 VVT hemi with the new 5spd 2012 auto sounds pretty interesting..........
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Very true. I like building just about as much as going however. Right now, with work, I have don't have much time to travel. I am planning for an early retirement, but not THAT early. I still have a few years to dream
What I hope this 'dreaming' does is inspire those more fortunate with time and money to use some of these ideas and get out on bigger trips with better vehicles than I can afford.
I do think there is a BIG hole in USA available vehicles that are suited for international expo work. I'm kind of a unique case because I yearn for a vehicle that can be 'perfect' and cross over into multiple disciplines without giving too much performance up in any given area.
drgnhrt1979
Adventurer
So with the talk of axle choices, I am surprised to see Atomic Axles were not mentioned, they would be my choice, and the give an additional 7 inches of clearance at the pumkin. If they make them for my XJ they would be on my wish list. Though I could modify the Wrangler ones they offer to work I guess.
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
The pumkin has to go somewhere. While I like the concept, that added 7" of clearance has to go somewhere. You might be able to effectively lower the suspension 1-2" but anything beyond that and your going to have issues. So that means that your going to have to add a lot of 'lift' to the suspension to get them to fit. The same thing basically goes for portal axles.
For me, I find that an increase in tire size has more to do about flotation and traction rather than a ground clearance increase.
I think a simple straight axle does great 99% of the time with the proper suspension. What I DON'T like about most modern axles is that lack of field serviceable components. Yes, a unit bearing generally lasts a long long time, but what if you get into a situation where you HAVE to service the wheel bearings? You can carry a spare unit-bearing sure, but I think serviceable/rebuildable/replaceable parts, that are not unit assemblies, are better.
Drop out 3rd members are great also. Its much nicer to be able to drop the 3rd member and work on gear setup on the tailgate or a table then under the vehicle.
Full floating rear axles. Its REALLY nice to combine this with the removable 3rd member. Being able to pull the axle shafts AND 3rd member in the rear without so much as a jack is a REALLY overlooked bonus if something where to go wrong with the rear axle.
How about real locking hubs.....yes please.