The DiscoDavis Discovery 3 Build Thread

[zelatore]

DD - it sounds like you ran into some of the same problems I had with fitment. To get it to line up side to side I had to cut and re-weld one of the mounts. It's been a while so i don't recall the specifics but I think I still have a built thread somewhere on the NCLR site with pics. I don't recall the wiring being too short but I generally have a lot of electrical stuff around the shop so I may have mod'ed it and just didn't remember. I do recall the instructions were pretty crappy and I think written for right hand drive instead of ROW so everything was backwards. Given that it's just some basic relays to run the fogs I pretty much ditched what they had written and just figured it out on my own. We did the installation in about a day and a half like you did, but that was after I tried unsuccessfully on my own a couple times to get it to line up correctly. I even sent pics to ARB USA asking for input and the response was something to the effect of 'yeah...doesn't look right....good luck'.

Victory - the ARB doesn't use a separate winch plate. I kinda wish they did as I think that's a better option in this case. At the very least it would make the thing easier to maneuver around since with the ARB you install the winch - after you clock the mounting feet around to be feet-forward instead of down - then put the whole thing on the truck as one piece. It's at least a 2 man job, preferably 3. I used my cherry picker to do the heavy lifting then I and a buddy did the bolt-up. It does allow re-use of the stock washer bottle though it's pretty tight in there. I would gladly trade that for a better approach angle. Another thing I don't like about the one-piece bumper is you have to totally remove it to get access to the winch. Mine's been on a couple years now and I really need to disassemble and service the winch but I've been putting it off since it's going to be a big job just to get to it.

Assuming the weather cooperates I'll be installing Alyson's ARB on her D2 on Sunday. We might even start Saturday after the MORG up at Folsom if she wants to hang around. But I don't have my shop anywhere near done yet so we'll be working in the driveway which means we need some rain-free time. I'm gambling on the D2 bumper being easier to install than the LR3 unit!

 

[DiscoDavis]

Man, so disappointed in the troubles you had with your front and rear bumpers. I honestly didn't have any problems and my front took a good bump so the alignment of the bumper showed the truck was straight. Even though the body shop already confirmed it, I had suspicion I may have alignment problems for the front bumper.

This might help you, although I do not know anything about the ARB install. On the TR bumper, I left everything loose, to include the winch mount. I used a wood block and jack to align everything with the hardware snug so the winch plate and bumper would move, but stayed in position once I tapped it into place. Then I crawled under the truck and was able to weasel my way into the winch mount bolts and tighten them. I then removed the bumper, torqued everything and then put the bumper back on and torqued it up to spec. My alignment was originally off because of the two piece design of the winch plate and bumper. Not sure if this is the case with ARB or not but mine fits great after I did that.

I didn't run any wiring and do not have any lights in the bumper since one light frame (on the light) was broken I figured I would leave both out and then put them both in at the same time later on. I still have not done that. My airbag sensors, plumbing, etc... all lined up perfectly with no issues. I don't see any reason why my bags wouldn't go off like they would attached to the garbage LR steel frame as it is initiated by G-force at the sensor.

I do have an issue with the washer bottles. I had to order a smaller one TR suggested and just tossed it under the hood for now cuz I have a custom application I plan on using. I think ARB you are able to use the OEM washer bottle correct?

Yeah. It is what it is, unfortunately. Despite me wanting to look "cool", the number one priority is protecting the lights and the radiator. As long as the bumper is structurally sound and functional, I am OK with it being misaligned, for now. The totally weird thing is that all the other pieces are lined up, the stone tray that bolts to the bottom lined up perfectly with the existing holes... no idea why. While I prefer the look of the ARB (even my crooked one) to the TR, I will admit the mounting is an improvement. The way the ARB fits on, there is almost NO adequate adjustment to account for any side to side adjustment more than a few mm on each side. The way the winch mounts is it bolts in almost upside down to the back of the bumper, and the bumper itself bolts to these shock absorbers that themselves bolt to the OEM bumper bolt holes.

As for wiring, the fogs were actually very intuitive and easy to fit. They use the same cabling and plugged in just fine. The new turn signals for the bumper were confusing to wire but we got them to work, again by doing a google on some old forum posts. I need to seal everything nicer than electrical tape and prevent them being pinched by the headlamp assembly (it was late and we did the bare minimum to make it work), but they work and have worked fine since.

Yes I am using the OEM washer bottle. Very large actually! It mounted just fine to the new pieces and it is a tight fit but works fine. I give ARB some credit for making it fit.

What irks me most right now is that my fender flares are badly cut . Sheepdog and I typically do our landy projects together, I drill better holes but he cuts perfectly straight. This time I did the cutting since he had gone to bed for work the next day, so I had to butcher everything myself.

 

[DiscoDavis]

DD - it sounds like you ran into some of the same problems I had with fitment. To get it to line up side to side I had to cut and re-weld one of the mounts. It's been a while so i don't recall the specifics but I think I still have a built thread somewhere on the NCLR site with pics. I don't recall the wiring being too short but I generally have a lot of electrical stuff around the shop so I may have mod'ed it and just didn't remember. I do recall the instructions were pretty crappy and I think written for right hand drive instead of ROW so everything was backwards. Given that it's just some basic relays to run the fogs I pretty much ditched what they had written and just figured it out on my own. We did the installation in about a day and a half like you did, but that was after I tried unsuccessfully on my own a couple times to get it to line up correctly. I even sent pics to ARB USA asking for input and the response was something to the effect of 'yeah...doesn't look right....good luck'.

Victory - the ARB doesn't use a separate winch plate. I kinda wish they did as I think that's a better option in this case. At the very least it would make the thing easier to maneuver around since with the ARB you install the winch - after you clock the mounting feet around to be feet-forward instead of down - then put the whole thing on the truck as one piece. It's at least a 2 man job, preferably 3. I used my cherry picker to do the heavy lifting then I and a buddy did the bolt-up. It does allow re-use of the stock washer bottle though it's pretty tight in there. I would gladly trade that for a better approach angle. Another thing I don't like about the one-piece bumper is you have to totally remove it to get access to the winch. Mine's been on a couple years now and I really need to disassemble and service the winch but I've been putting it off since it's going to be a big job just to get to it.

Assuming the weather cooperates I'll be installing Alyson's ARB on her D2 on Sunday. We might even start Saturday after the MORG up at Folsom if she wants to hang around. But I don't have my shop anywhere near done yet so we'll be working in the driveway which means we need some rain-free time. I'm gambling on the D2 bumper being easier to install than the LR3 unit!

I knew you had issues but I never thought it would be this heinous. Did you modify the shock absorbers or did you modify the existing bumper holes? I dropped by to ping Colin and Torsten yesterday and both of them said it looked pretty weird. I too emailed ARB, no response yet, but judging by your experience I doubt they will be of much assistance. What is strange to note is that there MUST be some discrepancy in how the LR factory mounts the OEM steel bumper, because in your thread the passenger side absorber was touching that vertical AC component, and mine does not. I suspect the factory holes are not subject to stringent alignment, and this may be what causes the new bumper to be off-center. Maybe the fix is to dismount both absorbers in the future and have them both welded in place...

Correct on the manpower component. Even with a lift or a tractor (maybe that motorcycle jack that Eric used on his TR), you need two other people to really hold the thing in place and eyeball it while you tighten all the bolts. That part is nuts, if I ever had to service it alone I would be screwed.

Alyson's bumper should be easy-peezy compared to the Discovery 3 version. Stuff like this is pushing me to go for a defender in the future... very tired of these fitment issues and the level of access to some areas of the vehicle are ridiculously tight if not impossible with out removing other major components.

EDIT: the stone trays and the two rock shields on each side are something I actually like. They make access to the inside of the bumper easy for wiring and bolting/unbolting, and are light enough to be manageable.

 

[DiscoDavis]

The only photo taken during the install:

Unfortunately this was one of those I need to get this done now things and not a let's take our time and document everything thing

 

[A.J.M]

That is one of the big reason's i've not went for one.
That and it's a grey area for being legal in the UK.

I've heard several stories of the fitting of the bumper being a complete nightmare.
Well done on the patience to get it fitted though.

 

[DiscoDavis]

That is one of the big reason's i've not went for one.
That and it's a grey area for being legal in the UK.

I've heard several stories of the fitting of the bumper being a complete nightmare.
Well done on the patience to get it fitted though.

ylsmoke

Thanks. You guys have stricter laws about it so if I were over there I would do one of those lower profile options or even a hidden tray. However looking at the stock bumper that was there, its a joke. Literally good for bumping into people in parking lots.

And yes it was a total nightmare, seems to be for everyone that does the ARB. Still waiting on an email back from their tech support... doubt that will come soon.

 

[Victory_Overland]

ylsmoke

Thanks. You guys have stricter laws about it so if I were over there I would do one of those lower profile options or even a hidden tray. However looking at the stock bumper that was there, its a joke. Literally good for bumping into people in parking lots.

And yes it was a total nightmare, seems to be for everyone that does the ARB. Still waiting on an email back from their tech support... doubt that will come soon.

Connor, If we were over there, we would be driving Defenders. Lol

Rover on:smiley_drive:

 

[DiscoDavis]

Connor, If we were over there, we would be driving Defenders. Lol

Rover on:smiley_drive:

Excellent point :ylsmoke:

 

[perkj]

And yes it was a total nightmare, seems to be for everyone that does the ARB. Still waiting on an email back from their tech support... doubt that will come soon.

I disagree with the "everyone" statement. My ARB install went 100% smooth without a single hiccup and fitment is perfect...my bother and I had it completed in 5 hours start to finish in the driveway. Hardest part was wiring up the turn signals as the ARB instructions for this section left a lot to the imagination. Based on my positive experience installing the ARB on a LR3 I've always suspected folks with difficulties installing fitment wise could be the result of possible past front end damage to their LR3 that they are unaware of as I cannot image Land Rover manufacturing having acceptable tolerances as far off as people are experiencing.

 

[Ray_G]

...I cannot image Land Rover manufacturing having acceptable tolerances as far off as people are experiencing.

I will just point out that my experience across LR platforms tends to see an exceptionally wide variance in tolerances. Solihull is Solihull, even with as good as the 3 & 4 is compared to previous generations-they are still Land Rovers!

 

[zelatore]

I'd like to believe it's down to unknown previous damage but the sheer number of people who've had issues makes me doubtful. I've seen this issue with both front and rear bumpers. In fact before I bought my front (and built my rear) I thought I'd like to go aluminum to save weight. I contacted Aluminess, offering to leave my truck with them to use as a template for a possible production part. They responded that they had found the tolerances on Rovers to be too broad to allow for a standard jig-built bolt-on bumper to fit tos their standards. It may be they simply weren't interested in the project, but if that were the case I'd expect a simple 'not interested' instead of this explanation.

 

[Victory_Overland]

I would think it is a bit of quality control on both ends from LR and ARB. My TR bumper is not 100% straight but I know my truck is because I measured corner to corner and cross bolt patterns. The body shop also did the same thing after the accident to show none of my crumple points were compromised. I also know because even the bent bumper support that came off measures perfectly at the mount holes and so did the new one that showed up from some Chinese Ebay aftermarket shop with no issues. That goes the same for the other 100 Atlantic British parts and LR factory parts I put back on my crashed rover. Not a single piece of plastic, metal, electrical, lighting, sensor or anything did not line up 100% with zero fitment issues. That tells me, if all of those components go on, some from the US, some from China, some from the U.K., etc... manufactured, stored, and shipped from all over to fit ANY LR3 of multiple year of manufacturing zero problems, then the bumper is the problem.

However, as much as I love my TR bumper, there is a tad of warping during the weld process. Just because the mount bolts line up on the holes, doesn't mean the part is not warped at cooling in other areas. I can only assume that ARB can have some of the same issues that every company has with mass produced welding and if it is not 100% cooled on the jig, then it will warp when it cools. Slight variations are most likely compensated for in the mounting foot adjustments, similar to what I had to deal with on my TR. Although ever so slight, if I was to bolt it all together and attempt to fit in on the truck, no chance it will line up. I had to make multiple adjustments in the various mounting areas (snug, tap here, tap there----absolutely no drilling, grinding) because there are multiple parts so a few adjustments. Torque one side down completely without the other side perfectly aligned and it moves. That is just simple install on just about anything. Fact is, a slightly shorter part after welding here and there makes a huge difference over here and there when the next weld goes down.

I also had to realign and gap my fenders from factory when I put the bumper on. If you look inside your fender well and under the hood, those fender screws are adjustable and give you around 1/4-1/2" movement in various areas. I had to regap my fenders when I put the radiator support and headlights back in, nothing to do with the bumper install, every car coming off the factory line gets gapped. I had to do it again once I put the bumper on. Now my gaps are just about perfect.

With that said, I also measured the bumper from point to point in about 6 different areas when I couldn't get the alignment right the first two times. I did this out of panic when I felt I was now running into the same problems I read about on so many occasions with the ARB install (Another reason I went with TR, not that I was right or wrong, just my choice because I have not read a single install issue with TR at the time). Well my TR is not perfect and nor should I expect it to be but it only took minor adjustment to make it fit, surely no drilling, grinding or welding outside of fender tab trimming all bumpers require. My lower left side where it mounts to the chassis is a 1/16" off and I installed a washer between the bumper plate and the frame before I installed the bolt. The truck is square, the bumper is actually 1/8" longer weld on that side causing a 1/16" gap.

I'm not sold that it is not an ARB quality problem. My buddy has an ARB on his Xterra and it is crooked as all hell. Another few buddies have them on their Tacomas, one is perfect, the other not so much. Just like my TR rear fits great, whereas Connors appears to be slightly off in certain areas. One side of my rear is taller than the other on the bash plate so the gap is smaller but still fits great. I bet if we measured everything, we would see variation in our bumpers, generally from the welding process.

Mass production will never fit perfect because every vehicle with doors and fenders is gapped differently on the assembly line. The only way for perfect bumpers is to fab it up and weld it on the vehicle!

Finally I will finish with this. My customer service experience with everything Tactical Rovers all the way from Hawaii has been top notch. I have no doubt if my bumper didn't fit, Eric from TR would have made it right immediately. Calling ARB to get the same answer that so many have said before is unacceptable and that sucks. My experience with my ARB tent and awnings have been great. When the cover seam busted on week one of my RTT experience, ARB gave me a new cover in the mail within a week, a bumper should be no different!

Off my soap box!

 

[DiscoDavis]

FWIW my truck has complete records and there is nothing related to any accident. The thing was serviced its entire life at a dealer and I have every oil change pretty much going back to the dealer delivery date to customer. That, added to the fact that both my front AND rear bumpers had fitment issues, is why I lean more towards LR tolerances being loose. Yes, ARB could and maybe should have extended the channels for the shock absorbers to adjust L to R, but then you start hitting that AC cylinder in front of the radiator. The stock front and rear (steel) bumpers were blemish free by the way, and the amount of rust on my frame means I can pretty easily spot when components are newer vs original

Perkj, happy yours fitted ok, I actually used one of your old posts about the light wiring to do mine! Thank you. I have to believe that there both folks that had good installs and folks like me that have weird bumper bolt holes. Since I have an early 06 model, maybe that's why. Maybe not. You're right though, when I say "everyone", that's hyperbole. I should have said, it appears to be a common occurrence.

As for the ARB customer service. I don't expect anything really beyond "oh, that's too bad, good luck!", and that is OK. I bought a bumper to fit as protection, if it was perfectly straight then that would be icing on the cake. For other things I would make more of a fuss over a defective item but the bumper does work. Albeit 1cm too far to the drivers side...

I am pretty jealous of you guys with centered bumpers

 

[DiscoDavis]

From today's NCLR monthly off road gathering

She is really trying to tell me to get sliders after getting hung up on the sills getting over big hunks of granite. Surprisingly only the frame was scratched

 

[SHS14]

Is your LR3 a daily driver?