The Snorkel's relevance to North American overlanding

[MOguy]

You're really getting bogged down in the semantics of this "ram" air effect. In that regard there is no difference between a raised air intake and the typical cold air intake that draws in air from the front fender or grille...they both have some amount of air flowing/getting rammed into the intake ducting.

Ram isn't the only company that makes cold air intakes like that...it's a pretty common setup among most of the big car companies. Go do some google searching; it's not that hard to research this stuff on your own.



That's fine. I'm just pointing out that a raised air intake introduces more inefficiencies over the stock setup.




Well which is it: do or don't these snorkels provide a performance boost? You just implied earlier that's foolish to expect a performance boost with a snorkel.

Also, no s%^t these companies are going to claim that their products enhance performance; so does every other aftermarket company which produces cold air intakes and "high efficiency" filters and exhausts. You should take what the aftermarket companies say with a grain of salt. They have no obligation towards journalistic integrity; their only focus is to make sales.

I could only get the ARB link to work so I emailed them requesting testing information to support to their claims.

 

[Stryder106]

calling names now?.you lose bud.sorry,but you lost all credibility when you act like a child. maybe it's time for you to color in your book while the adults talk. anyway,i'm out.

My getting snarky with you was in direct reply to your post directed at me. I wouldn't call it childish - to get to childish would have required a whole other level of response to your condescending post.

 

[Stryder106]

Calling someone out for calling you a name only to call them a child in return. And you said he lost credibility?

This thread has done a few laps around the toilet bowl now.

Let's summarize this thread so we can flush it already.
Does North America have extremely similar terrain to both Australia and Africa? YES - water, dust, sand, rock, mud, heat, wind - all present on popular overlanding routes.
Is a snorkel considered useful to an overlander in Africa or Australia? YES - without question.
Does a snorkel provide a performance benefit? Point of debate - some say yes, others say no - split the difference - Maybe or It Depends.
Does a snorkel provide a capability improvement in marginal environmental conditions (aka "insurance")? YES
Given the above, would a snorkel be relevant or appropriate (but not a requirement) for an overlander in North America doing the popular North American overlanding routes? YES
Does the utility of a snorkel for an overlander, prevent North American Mall Crawlers and Bro Dozers from equipping their vehicles with them for the "look"? NO

Did I miss anything?

 

[arctic04trd]

Let's summarize this thread so we can flush it already.
Does North America have extremely similar terrain to both Australia and Africa? YES - water, dust, sand, rock, mud, heat, wind - all present on popular overlanding routes.
Is a snorkel considered useful to an overlander in Africa or Australia? YES - without question.
Does a snorkel provide a performance benefit? Point of debate - some say yes, others say no - split the difference - Maybe or It Depends.
Does a snorkel provide a capability improvement in marginal environmental conditions (aka "insurance")? YES
Given the above, would a snorkel be relevant or appropriate (but not a requirement) for an overlander in North America doing the popular North American overlanding routes? YES
Does the utility of a snorkel for an overlander, prevent North American Mall Crawlers and Bro Dozers from equipping their vehicles with them for the "look"? NO

Did I miss anything?

I'm also from BC, and have a question. I change my air filter every 1000miles. Yes, 5 times between oil changes. Not because I want to, but because they are filthy. I drive logging roads and FSRs. Probably about 40-50% of my driving. You don't need desert to find dust. The dust clouds from driving off-road in august are unbearably thick. But even just driving alone, my air filter keeps clogging up. Snorkel or no? I don't think I'll need it for water crossings, but as mentioned before, cheap insurance. Plus if I have $400-500 burning a hole in my pocket, who gives a crap.

And for the record, we have every type of terrain found in North America here in BC. Deserts included. The same desert you mentioned previously in eastern Washington extendeds north into the southern interior of bc. It's called the okanagan valley. And I live at the top end. (Not in the desert, mind you. Lots of trees and vegetation where I live).

 

[hemifoot]

Calling someone out for calling you a name only to call them a child in return. And you said he lost credibility?

This thread has done a few laps around the toilet bowl now.

telling someone they're acting childish is not calling anyone names.you really need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Ozrockrat]

You guys do realize that most of the 4WD trucks in Australia either come with the snorkel as standard figment or offer it as a factory option don’t you. Sort of negates all the “factory knows best so don’t install one” arguments.

 

[MOguy]

I could only get the ARB link to work so I emailed them requesting testing information to support to their claims.

I have received no response from ARB. Therefore I will assume their is absolutely no power increase and ARB is lying to us. I have had ARB airlocker for along long time and I am very pleased with them.

I would think if anybody could prove there was a power increase ARB would have the resources to test and prove it. Maybe they are just busy and haven't got back to me. But, I just think they are full of ****.

 

[Dalko43]

Does a snorkel provide a capability improvement in marginal environmental conditions (aka "insurance")? YES
Given the above, would a snorkel be relevant or appropriate (but not a requirement) for an overlander in North America doing the popular North American overlanding routes? YES
Does the utility of a snorkel for an overlander, prevent North American Mall Crawlers and Bro Dozers from equipping their vehicles with them for the "look"? NO

I get the insurance factor.
I know that mall crawlers will do what they want to do and that shouldn't affect the purchasing decisions of overlanders and offroaders.

The purpose of this thread wasn't to start a partisan debate but rather promote a discussion. So answer these two questions Stryder (I'm not being snarky here as I'm genuinely interested in hearing your view):
1) Would you assign a snorkel the same priority or relevance for any and every overlander living in North America, regardless of location and diving habits? For example is the snorkel's relevance the same for two different individuals: one who drives frequently in the Southwest US and Baja; and the other who does occasional weekend trips in mid Atlantic states?
2) Are there any considerations for someone who lives in an area of heavy precipitation when it comes to driving with a snorkel (namely moisture buildup in the snorkel and/or air intake)?

 

[southpier]

I have received no response from ARB. Therefore I will assume their is absolutely no power increase and ARB is lying to us. I have had ARB airlocker for along long time and I am very pleased with them.

I would think if anybody could prove there was a power increase ARB would have the resources to test and prove it. Maybe they are just busy and haven't got back to me. But, I just think they are full of ****.

or have simply decided you're not their target demographic

 

[lugueto]

Well which is it: do or don't these snorkels provide a performance boost? You just implied earlier that's foolish to expect a performance boost with a snorkel.

When have I stated or implied that it's foolish to expect a performance boost?

I've explicitely said several times that I don't believe a snorkel will be any more restrictive than the stock, inner-fender intake and that you shouldn't lose power, that the opposite may be true. I also said that I don't install snorkels as a performance mod, only as a safety precaution. I can't find any post where I've said the opposite.

When I said that I dont have the numbers, neither do you, nor the OP or the guys from the podcast I stated that I'll gladly admit I was wrong if those numbers prove a loss in power. This still stands. I look forward to seeing actual tests on a snorkel's effect on engine performance. That'll settle these threads once and for all.

Also, no s%^t these companies are going to claim that their products enhance performance; so does every other aftermarket company which produces cold air intakes and "high efficiency" filters and exhausts. You should take what the aftermarket companies say with a grain of salt. They have no obligation towards journalistic integrity; their only focus is to make sales.

I completely agree. This was just in response to the post by Moguy saying these companies don't actually say it'll improve performance.

For someone on the offensive, you should really try and practice what you preach. Look things up, take things with a grain of salt and try and practicing a little humility (maybe even reading comprehension?). Being a smartass will generally take away from your arguments.

This will be my last post in this thread. It started off as mildly entertaining now it's downright pointless. I'll carry on installing and using my snorkels, and recommending them to overlanders and 4x4 users that might consider them a necessity.

Cheers,

Luis

 

[MOguy]

or have simply decided you're not their target demographic

I have other products of theirs for many years. They have served me well. I would be a repeat customer which is what most businesses want. I admit I was really surprised when ARB made those claims. They have always been an extremely well-respected company for very very good reasons.

ARB is a leader in this industry, if they make a claim I would assume that they would have the ability to back it up.

 

[MOguy]

They responded. No testing down on the engine. Even with this I do think a snorkel provides a greater advantage than disadvantage for people who could find themselves in certain situations. For me I am more concerned about that probable damage in thecenvironment I wheel in but will continue to look into running one up through my cowl.

From ARB:


We actually don't make snorkels, we are the North American distributor for the Australian made Safari Snorkels.

The ARMAX snorkels are actually a new design snorkel that is available for newly developed snorkel models for newer vehicles. Safari also make turbo systems for diesels so they have digital testing equipment that can test air flow of the original air intake systems and compare them to the air intake efficiency after a snorkel is installed. This is how they can claim performance improvements. And even on some vehicles with larger diesel engine like a Ford Super Duty they have concluded that a snorkel would actually reduce performance so they abandoned the project.

Now on your TJ. Although they don't have any official testing numbers because of the year the snorkel was produced. The snorkel intake is raised and the air is forced (especially at speeds) into the air box which will always increase performance a bit. I can tell you from personal experience running a snorkel on my 4.0L equipped Wrangler YJ that top end power was increased. I noticed a big difference going over one of our local mountain passes. And this was on a tired (300k mile) engine. A TJ should see a little more performance with the newer OBDII engine system. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

 

[Dalko43]

I look forward to seeing actual tests on a snorkel's effect on engine performance. That'll settle these threads once and for all.

Actually it won't. The thread was started to discuss the snorkel's relevance for the average overlander living in North America. This topic of performance gains, or lack thereof, was a tangential conversation. If you find test results, feel free to provide the links. If there was a slight performance drawback to installing a snorkel, I would be willing to overlook it for the sake of the added utility and safety factor. The 2 main issues that hold me back on buying one: I have other planned mods that I think are more deserving of my money; I'm worried about precipitation getting into the snorkel scoop and getting sucked into the intake.

I'm in the northeast and haven't encountered an area yet where the lack of a snorkel truly kept me from exploring. Maybe if I lived elsewhere, my perception of the snorkel's relevance would be different. That was the original theme of this thread.

I'll carry on installing and using my snorkels, and recommending them to overlanders and 4x4 users that might consider them a necessity.

And if I were living in South America, I'd probably have the same view. The thread was focused on overlanders living in North America.

They responded. No testing down on the engine. Even with this I do think a snorkel provides a greater advantage than disadvantage for people who could find themselves in certain situations. For me I am more concerned about that probable damage in thecenvironment I wheel in but will continue to look into running one up through my cowl.

From ARB:


We actually don't make snorkels, we are the North American distributor for the Australian made Safari Snorkels.

The ARMAX snorkels are actually a new design snorkel that is available for newly developed snorkel models for newer vehicles. Safari also make turbo systems for diesels so they have digital testing equipment that can test air flow of the original air intake systems and compare them to the air intake efficiency after a snorkel is installed. This is how they can claim performance improvements. And even on some vehicles with larger diesel engine like a Ford Super Duty they have concluded that a snorkel would actually reduce performance so they abandoned the project.

Thanks for reaching out to ARB. The part about the Ford Super Duty diesel is interesting. I've seen aftermarket snorkels advertised for some of the 3/4 ton diesels.

 

[ExplorerTom]

anyway,i'm out.

telling someone they're acting childish is not calling anyone names.you really need to work on your reading comprehension.

You're still here?

 

[b9ev]

I like that they test air flow. Would be curious to have two otherwise identical vehicles one with a snorkel and the other without. Drive in the same conditions and then test airflow of both after.

On a related note, testing air flow is one major thing I like about S&B intakes. They don't tell you if your engine will produce more power they tell you how much more air they flow vs stock vs a few competitors. I can attest that on my truck it flows more air than stock. With the single turbo conversion anytime I would get over 20psi of boost it would suck the air filter monitor in on the stock filter. S&B flows free enough to not do that.

They responded. No testing down on the engine. Even with this I do think a snorkel provides a greater advantage than disadvantage for people who could find themselves in certain situations. For me I am more concerned about that probable damage in thecenvironment I wheel in but will continue to look into running one up through my cowl.

From ARB:


We actually don't make snorkels, we are the North American distributor for the Australian made Safari Snorkels.

The ARMAX snorkels are actually a new design snorkel that is available for newly developed snorkel models for newer vehicles. Safari also make turbo systems for diesels so they have digital testing equipment that can test air flow of the original air intake systems and compare them to the air intake efficiency after a snorkel is installed. This is how they can claim performance improvements. And even on some vehicles with larger diesel engine like a Ford Super Duty they have concluded that a snorkel would actually reduce performance so they abandoned the project.

Now on your TJ. Although they don't have any official testing numbers because of the year the snorkel was produced. The snorkel intake is raised and the air is forced (especially at speeds) into the air box which will always increase performance a bit. I can tell you from personal experience running a snorkel on my 4.0L equipped Wrangler YJ that top end power was increased. I noticed a big difference going over one of our local mountain passes. And this was on a tired (300k mile) engine. A TJ should see a little more performance with the newer OBDII engine system. Let me know if you have anymore questions.