Total Composites and Ventilation

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
I was chatting with a Total Composites build partner about a potential build out, and mentioned leaving my dog in the camper (with AC) while exploring places.

They mentioned that TC boxes are so well sealed that you need some form of ventilation if you're going to do that, or the occupants will suffocate.

Is that right? Does that mean you essentially always need a window open or some type of air exchange happening, even in the winter? Because, frankly, that sounds terrifying.
 

andy_b

Active member
Unrelated to your post, but I highly encourage you to follow through with the TC box vs some other plans you’ve had. Based on your needs, this is probably one of the best value solutions around.

Anyhow, the risk of asphyxiation is plausible but unlikely; sounds more like marketing hyperbole to me.

You’re going to want to do some sort of ventilation for humidity control and venting dog funk. We have our doggos in the camper with the AC or heat running as the season dictates and the idea of coming back to an unvented camper is unsavory. On more than one occasion, they have gotten into something smelly (usually on day one) and washing can logistically challenging.

IMG_9645.jpegThis is an example of the humidity issues in the winter and also why I don’t think the finished camper is as airtight as suggested. We have the Arctic Tern Wildlands door. It is basically an inner screen door and an outer aluminum panel. No insulation. The moisture condenses on the inner surface and drips out as these weird icicles. This usually doesn’t happen but the fan wasn’t on that night. IDK if their other door has these issues (doubt it) but there is no hermetic seal, at least in our camper.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
Unrelated to your post, but I highly encourage you to follow through with the TC box vs some other plans you’ve had. Based on your needs, this is probably one of the best value solutions around.

Anyhow, the risk of asphyxiation is plausible but unlikely; sounds more like marketing hyperbole to me.

You’re going to want to do some sort of ventilation for humidity control and venting dog funk. We have our doggos in the camper with the AC or heat running as the season dictates and the idea of coming back to an unvented camper is unsavory. On more than one occasion, they have gotten into something smelly (usually on day one) and washing can logistically challenging.

View attachment 816944This is an example of the humidity issues in the winter and also why I don’t think the finished camper is as airtight as suggested. We have the Arctic Tern Wildlands door. It is basically an inner screen door and an outer aluminum panel. No insulation. The moisture condenses on the inner surface and drips out as these weird icicles. This usually doesn’t happen but the fan wasn’t on that night. IDK if their other door has these issues (doubt it) but there is no hermetic seal, at least in our camper.

Thanks for this (and apologies in advance for the long response)!

Condensation

The guy I talked to today actually mentioned that this is expected with Arctic Tern windows. Allegedly, because the frames are aluminum, they're a thermal transfer point and will collect moisture in cold weather.

The Wildlands door is also the one I'd planned to use regardless of build. We have a dog who loves to claw at the door, and he's gone through several screens in our camper already. The beer screen on the inside is particularly appealing, as is the triple deadbolt lock.

Venting

This is almost certainly a silly newb question, but can you say more about venting and what that means, specifically?

Does running the heat or AC count, or do you also crack a window or roof vent in addition? Or is there some other type of vent mechanism you use?

Our current Forest River travel trailer is not particularly well sealed, so this has never been an issue or concern for us before (and our little bichon-mix isn't nearly as smelly as our previous lab-mix was).

Going with Total Composites

I agree it's a better move. I'm also looking at Bison Overland, who's switched from aluminum construction to composite (albeit with aluminum extrusions).

Simply put, I just don't have the time or skill to build a camper body myself.

And going with a lighter composite build means I can go with a smaller 1-ton truck platform, which has a lot of advantages: it can fit in a normal parking space, they're more readily available, they're less expensive to purchase, and at lower mileage, they have tires that can be aired-down without need to convert to super-singles.

I also think it might actually be more economically feasible, as I could get an RV loan for a built-out TC box with much smaller payments than buying all the parts for DIY would cost me up-front.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
Regarding the Wildlands door, @andy_b, do you have the thermal cover for it? My understand is that the door wasn't built for cold weather use, and their Eurodoor is better suited for that purpose. But lots of people roll with the Wildlands for four season use anyways (and I plan to as well).
 

andy_b

Active member
Regarding the Wildlands door, @andy_b, do you have the thermal cover for it? My understand is that the door wasn't built for cold weather use, and their Eurodoor is better suited for that purpose. But lots of people roll with the Wildlands for four season use anyways (and I plan to as well).
No, not yet. I was aware that the Wildlands is not designed for cold weather; most of our travel is in warmer rather than cold. I only posted it to highlight how well it seals (or doesn’t). No regrets using it. Because the exterior door opened into an enclosed bathroom, the lack of insulation has minimal impact anyhow.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
No, not yet. I was aware that the Wildlands is not designed for cold weather; most of our travel is in warmer rather than cold. I only posted it to highlight how well it seals (or doesn’t). No regrets using it. Because the exterior door opened into an enclosed bathroom, the lack of insulation has minimal impact anyhow.

@andy_b Nice! It looks like an exceptionally good door.

This is almost certainly a silly newb question, but can you say more about venting and what that means, specifically?

Does running the heat or AC count, or do you also crack a window or roof vent in addition? Or is there some other type of vent mechanism you use?
 

andy_b

Active member
@andy_b Nice! It looks like an exceptionally good door.

This is almost certainly a silly newb question, but can you say more about venting and what that means, specifically?

Does running the heat or AC count, or do you also crack a window or roof vent in addition? Or is there some other type of vent mechanism you use?
AC in an RV has no communication with the exterior air which is why that builder made those claims I assume. We have a Maxxair fan in the roof and crack a window. This whole ventilation thing is also why ppl are talking so much about heat recovery ventilators in the Hard Sided forum.
 

NOPEC

Well-known member
@andy_b Nice! It looks like an exceptionally good door.

This is almost certainly a silly newb question, but can you say more about venting and what that means, specifically?

Does running the heat or AC count, or do you also crack a window or roof vent in addition? Or is there some other type of vent mechanism you use?
If you have a kitchen fan/vent in your current manufactured trailer, then you automatically have a vent as the little louvers in that system are not very air tight. A Composite shell is a different situation in that until you have some sort of vent or hole in the skin, they are air tight. I am currently building out a composite shell and I will be putting in a floor vent. At present, if I forget and close the door too quickly, the inside air pressure equalizes by hissing it's way out through tiny air channels in the door lock mechanism. Scared the willies out me the first time it happened.
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
If you have a kitchen fan/vent in your current manufactured trailer, then you automatically have a vent as the little louvers in that system are not very air tight. A Composite shell is a different situation in that until you have some sort of vent or hole in the skin, they are air tight. I am currently building out a composite shell and I will be putting in a floor vent. At present, if I forget and close the door too quickly, the inside air pressure equalizes by hissing it's way out through tiny air channels in the door lock mechanism. Scared the willies out me the first time it happened.

That clarifies things a lot, thanks @NOPEC!

A floor vent sounds interesting. Is this a DIY thing, or do you have a link to an example I could look at?
 

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
01 Finished CampercE_LI.jpg
That is a forward facing vent.
The air has a torturous path to the interior which allows it to stay open hail, rain or shine, while stationary or while driving.
It serves 2 purposes:
1. Ventilation if all the windows and doors are closed (a legal requirement in Oz if there are any LPG appliances fitted).
2. It pressurises the interior so that those little leaks that do develop around the door, windows & storage compartment hatches will leak OUT and not IN. So, NO DUST inside.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
View attachment 816948
That is a forward facing vent.
The air has a torturous path to the interior which allows it to stay open hail, rain or shine, while stationary or while driving.
It serves 2 purposes:
1. Ventilation if all the windows and doors are closed (a legal requirement in Oz if there are any LPG appliances fitted).
2. It pressurises the interior so that those little leaks that do develop around the door, windows & storage compartment hatches will leak OUT and not IN. So, NO DUST inside.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I’m assuming it’s not just an open vent then?

Thanks for sharing!
 

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
I’m assuming it’s not just an open vent then?
Not sure what you mean.
It is always open but it has a water trap and double wall and the entry to the inside is higher than the outside grill.
Oz has a lot of stuff we call "bull dust" that some roads develop. It is the consistency of talcum powder and it flows like water. It can be half a metre deep and it can conceal nasty holes underneath. Keeping it out of you vehicle is a real challenge and I have found that pressurising the interior with clean air is about the only way that works.
This is a "mild" patch.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

ReluctantTraveler

Active member
Not sure what you mean.
It is always open but it has a water trap and double wall and the entry to the inside is higher than the outside grill.
Oz has a lot of stuff we call "bull dust" that some roads develop. It is the consistency of talcum powder and it flows like water. It can be half a metre deep and it can conceal nasty holes underneath. Keeping it out of you vehicle is a real challenge and I have found that pressurising the interior with clean air is about the only way that works.
This is a "mild" patch.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
“it has a water trap and double wall and the entry to the inside is higher than the outside grill.”

That explains it. I was trying to figure how dust doesn’t just flood into the habitat.
 

Peter_n_Margaret

Adventurer
Think toilet "S" bend. :)
It might be useful to note that the actual airflow through this system is quite low while driving. It is limited to the ram-air-pressure pushing through what should be quite small leaks in the rest of the habitat. If the leaks are large, the airflow will be correspondingly larger and dust will enter if you get close to vehicles in front.
What is also important is to pick up the cleanest air from high up in the front of the vehicle.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
There is a great deal to be said about "tight" homes, that also apply to campers.
And I dont doubt one bit that a composite panel cabin with all the good windows and doors being absolutely tight.
Unless managed correctly, air quality can be a huge problem. From moisture/mold issues to perhaps even O2 levels if left closed off long enough.

Hard to see, but our camper includes a vent that is for the most part open to outside at all times.
It is located in the cabover (highest point of ceiling) and it the highest point of the camper itself.
Its nothing more than a modified Broan roof vent cap, with a small CPU fan on a switch, and in interior cover we use during high wind or whenever we feel the need to block it off.
Super simple and goes a LONG way in managing interior air quality, primarily moisture, even when off. Also helps exhaust heat during the warmer months.

No dust issues to speak of, and built/installed in a way that even with 12+ inches of snow on the roof no leaks.

53384686711_e094395420_b.jpg


634.jpg

 

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