Toyota axles in a Jeep WJ
- Thread starter Fergie
- Start date
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Fergie said:
Will do. IIRC mine is 06/01 but it's been a long time since I've looked it up.
Supposedly the 0331 casting was changed at some point in 01. I dunno how true it is but I saw this recently stated on NAXJA. I think by Dino but don't quote me on that.
That begs the question, is there a date on the 0331s themselves and is there knowledge of when they changed the casting?
If it were me I'd go for the earlier casting to be 100% certain.
theksmith
Explorer
i just came across this thread while searching for other WJ info... not sure if it was previously posted, but did you know that IRO makes full swap-in JK Rubicon front and rear axle kits (including electric locker working)?
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com
they also just sell the mounting braketry and electronics for the locker to work if you have a good deal on used JK axles instead of going new.
http://www.ironrockoffroad.com
they also just sell the mounting braketry and electronics for the locker to work if you have a good deal on used JK axles instead of going new.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
HOLY... if you look at the "customers rigs" sectio n on that site, there are some AWSOME WJ's on there. I've never really liked the looks of these trucks, but man they aparently flex pretty damn good with some mods. adn of course tall skinny mudders make ANY truck look alot more impressive eh. Great link.theksmith said:
Cheers
Dave
Fergie
Expedition Leader
Okay, I'm thinking now that a full size axle would be perfect for this vehicle. The stock axle width is 63.5", to something in a 65" flavor would give me the track width, and the wheel spacing I need.
I'll do some in-depth research in to it tomorrow, but does anyone know off the top of their head what the WMS-WMS of a Dodge Ram is?
I'll do some in-depth research in to it tomorrow, but does anyone know off the top of their head what the WMS-WMS of a Dodge Ram is?
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Sorry, don't know the Dodge.
IIRC the HP D44s in the late 1970s F250 is ~67". You can work with that with wheel offsets maybe?
For the amount of work to do this conversion, I'd try real hard to get a high pinion axle in the mix.
IIRC the HP D44s in the late 1970s F250 is ~67". You can work with that with wheel offsets maybe?
For the amount of work to do this conversion, I'd try real hard to get a high pinion axle in the mix.
Fergie
Expedition Leader
I'll read through some of the HP44 tech on NAXJA to find out more info on the full size swaps. I'd prefer not to go as wide as 67", but we'll see how that goes.
I'm thinking a more modern axle may be required though.
I've got ABS and speed sensors to deal with; I don't know if the various systems used are proprietary to each brand or what, as far the ABS goes. The speed sensor I can easily work around, either by a GPS speedo, GPS mounted in cab, or a tailshaft and sensor conversions from an earlier 242, like the XJs have.
I don't necessarily need to stick with domestic either. The UZJ rear axle has a 9.5" ring gear and is 63.6" wide. Converting the brake lines to metric would be a snap(or vice versa) and that would open up a lot options for me. The front axle, I'm not to sure on.
I'm thinking a more modern axle may be required though.
I've got ABS and speed sensors to deal with; I don't know if the various systems used are proprietary to each brand or what, as far the ABS goes. The speed sensor I can easily work around, either by a GPS speedo, GPS mounted in cab, or a tailshaft and sensor conversions from an earlier 242, like the XJs have.
I don't necessarily need to stick with domestic either. The UZJ rear axle has a 9.5" ring gear and is 63.6" wide. Converting the brake lines to metric would be a snap(or vice versa) and that would open up a lot options for me. The front axle, I'm not to sure on.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
What ever you do, I wouldn't mix axles. If you use a UZJ rear, use a UZJ front too. I say this not from any possible incompatability issue (not likely to be one), but from a replacement parts issue. Far easier when all of the axles bits come from the same donor or donor type.
There are likely only two type of ABS sensors, Hall Effect and Inductive. Hall's will always be a 3 wire connector (ground, source, & signal) while the Inductive's are usually 2 wire, but not always. Most important is that the tone ring have the same shape and number of teeth. Some are square cut and some are sinusoidal. Depending on the sensor the signal wave form can be quite different and the box reading the signal won't know what to do with one that is different from it's programming.
There are likely only two type of ABS sensors, Hall Effect and Inductive. Hall's will always be a 3 wire connector (ground, source, & signal) while the Inductive's are usually 2 wire, but not always. Most important is that the tone ring have the same shape and number of teeth. Some are square cut and some are sinusoidal. Depending on the sensor the signal wave form can be quite different and the box reading the signal won't know what to do with one that is different from it's programming.
Backwoods Rambler
Explorer
The IRO system uses a 3-link control arm system, which offers a TON of flexability.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
I'm not certain about the UZJ but the TLCs previously had passenger offset differentials both front and rear. That means thinking hard about changing the transfer case for something that matches. Personally, I couldn't be bothered to go that route in spite of being a big fan of the TLC stuff.
Again, I'm not 100% certain on this but, IIRC, the Chevrolet stuff is ~65" in the front. Problem is they are low pinion.
As for ABS, I'd rip all that stuff out. That is just me. I'm not one of those guys that "fears" technology or anything (hell, my workshop looks like a hybrid between a redneck 4x4 shop and a chip fab shop) but for a truck I don't really see the point. ABS sucks in the deeper snow and gravel, and is only really any good on pavement. It's more trouble than it's worth IMO. I can threshold brake quite nicely on the track so on the street is trivial.
FWIW, I am planning on building some axles for my YJ that are around that width (~63.5"). I am starting with a `78 F250 front tube (HP44), Chev knuckles for the high steer, Scout II spindles. Yes, the Scout outers are not as strong as the full size stuff but with intended usage and using WARN Premium hubs I don't see a big problem for my intended usage. There is a post in the forums on binderbulletin.org that puts this combination at ~63.5".
For the rear I was planning on getting a custom full float 9" axle made up at Schreiner (http://www.9inchfloater.com/). I built a FF D44 for the rear of my XJ and wish I knew about Schreiner before hand because I certainly didn't save any money compared to what they charge. For width I was thinking ~62" but am not 100% set on that yet.
The other option is to go with a custom 9" housing in the front (Currie, etc.). Would be nice but might be a touch overkill for the intended usage for your Jeep. Not that there is really anything wrong with over kill.
Again, I'm not 100% certain on this but, IIRC, the Chevrolet stuff is ~65" in the front. Problem is they are low pinion.
As for ABS, I'd rip all that stuff out. That is just me. I'm not one of those guys that "fears" technology or anything (hell, my workshop looks like a hybrid between a redneck 4x4 shop and a chip fab shop) but for a truck I don't really see the point. ABS sucks in the deeper snow and gravel, and is only really any good on pavement. It's more trouble than it's worth IMO. I can threshold brake quite nicely on the track so on the street is trivial.
FWIW, I am planning on building some axles for my YJ that are around that width (~63.5"). I am starting with a `78 F250 front tube (HP44), Chev knuckles for the high steer, Scout II spindles. Yes, the Scout outers are not as strong as the full size stuff but with intended usage and using WARN Premium hubs I don't see a big problem for my intended usage. There is a post in the forums on binderbulletin.org that puts this combination at ~63.5".
For the rear I was planning on getting a custom full float 9" axle made up at Schreiner (http://www.9inchfloater.com/). I built a FF D44 for the rear of my XJ and wish I knew about Schreiner before hand because I certainly didn't save any money compared to what they charge. For width I was thinking ~62" but am not 100% set on that yet.
The other option is to go with a custom 9" housing in the front (Currie, etc.). Would be nice but might be a touch overkill for the intended usage for your Jeep. Not that there is really anything wrong with over kill.
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Fergie
Expedition Leader
I'd like to stay as "off the shelf" as possible, whichever route I go.
If I went with an HP Ford, and had it cut down to Cehvy width, then I could run Chevy outers and axle shafts to maintain the aprts availability.
For my intended uses, I'm not even sure I need to go as heavy duty as a 9", but I am right at the cusp of a D35 being too weak, and bigger axles being overkill. I could go with a trussed super D35, and buy an extra shaft, just to have a spare 30 spline; I'd also have the flanges drilled to a more common BP than the 5x5 it is now. However, with the popularity of the new JKs, this isnt the issue it once was.
I hadnt even thought of the diff offset in the rear of the UZJ, it wont be an issue up front though as the UZJ is IFS.
FZJ axles wouldnt be entirely bad, but as was stated in a previous post in this thread, the steering linkage will be an issue; although it might be solved with some hi-steer arms.
I agree on the ABS issue. This is the first vehicle that I have had that has it, and I'm on the fence about it. Even the wife knows how to brake on slick roads properly. The speedo and tone rings can be overcome easily too.
The other item that is in the works is ditching the 42RE for an AW-4, that or just building the 42RE a bit better...it has lasted close to 150k with only routine maintenance.
If I went with an HP Ford, and had it cut down to Cehvy width, then I could run Chevy outers and axle shafts to maintain the aprts availability.
For my intended uses, I'm not even sure I need to go as heavy duty as a 9", but I am right at the cusp of a D35 being too weak, and bigger axles being overkill. I could go with a trussed super D35, and buy an extra shaft, just to have a spare 30 spline; I'd also have the flanges drilled to a more common BP than the 5x5 it is now. However, with the popularity of the new JKs, this isnt the issue it once was.
I hadnt even thought of the diff offset in the rear of the UZJ, it wont be an issue up front though as the UZJ is IFS.
FZJ axles wouldnt be entirely bad, but as was stated in a previous post in this thread, the steering linkage will be an issue; although it might be solved with some hi-steer arms.
I agree on the ABS issue. This is the first vehicle that I have had that has it, and I'm on the fence about it. Even the wife knows how to brake on slick roads properly. The speedo and tone rings can be overcome easily too.
The other item that is in the works is ditching the 42RE for an AW-4, that or just building the 42RE a bit better...it has lasted close to 150k with only routine maintenance.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
I'm a fan of keeping easy to "track" parts as well.
I think cutting down a Ford housing is a reasonable tact if you feel comfortable doing it. I may go that route as well, who knows. I have a bunch of Scout stuff sitting on the shelf hence the logic about going the Scout outers.
IMO a Dana 35 is a non starter. I wouldn't spend any money on it at all. The housing and ring gear are way too small for a WJ that will see off-road usage.
You could consider the 9" overkill but don't forget that even "small" vehicles had them stock from Ford. Early Broncos for example. They are a light axle (in terms of weight) with lots of potential to build incredibly strong. I'm a big fan of them. If I needed dana 60 strength I'd run the 9" instead just for the weight savings. Ford put them in half tons as well.
Price what you want at that link I provided. For the price it seems like a great deal. Hell, I paid something like $650 for the WARN full float kit for my Dana 44. At Schreiner's prices you get all that plus a housing that you don't have to recondition/restore and a setup that is ready to go for disk brakes for not a lot more. IIRC what I had priced out was $800. All that was needed then was a locker and a third member housing.
FZJ, offset again...
Transmission... Too bad you couldn't easily retrofit the 545RFE. Otherwise just rebuild what you've got when it comes time. It's a four speed and seems decent enough. A rebuild by a good shop will make it stronger than stock when the time comes. Switching in a AW4 raises all kinds of questions like will it be install and forget or will you have to futz with one of those gear selection boxes, will the ECU for the EFI play nice when it is missing signals from the non-existent 42RE, etc., etc. I'd leave that alone.
I think cutting down a Ford housing is a reasonable tact if you feel comfortable doing it. I may go that route as well, who knows. I have a bunch of Scout stuff sitting on the shelf hence the logic about going the Scout outers.
IMO a Dana 35 is a non starter. I wouldn't spend any money on it at all. The housing and ring gear are way too small for a WJ that will see off-road usage.
You could consider the 9" overkill but don't forget that even "small" vehicles had them stock from Ford. Early Broncos for example. They are a light axle (in terms of weight) with lots of potential to build incredibly strong. I'm a big fan of them. If I needed dana 60 strength I'd run the 9" instead just for the weight savings. Ford put them in half tons as well.
Price what you want at that link I provided. For the price it seems like a great deal. Hell, I paid something like $650 for the WARN full float kit for my Dana 44. At Schreiner's prices you get all that plus a housing that you don't have to recondition/restore and a setup that is ready to go for disk brakes for not a lot more. IIRC what I had priced out was $800. All that was needed then was a locker and a third member housing.
FZJ, offset again...
Transmission... Too bad you couldn't easily retrofit the 545RFE. Otherwise just rebuild what you've got when it comes time. It's a four speed and seems decent enough. A rebuild by a good shop will make it stronger than stock when the time comes. Switching in a AW4 raises all kinds of questions like will it be install and forget or will you have to futz with one of those gear selection boxes, will the ECU for the EFI play nice when it is missing signals from the non-existent 42RE, etc., etc. I'd leave that alone.
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Root Moose
Expedition Leader
And BTW, confirm the width of the Chevy setup. Spidey-sense says it is ~65" but that may be bad data in my brain pan.
IXNAYXJ
Adventurer
Just wondering, why are you even thinking about switching? While I'm no fan of the D30, it can work very easily up to 33's with minimal issues. As for the rear, that's a lot easier. Ford 8.8 or 9 inch, or XJ D44. I wouldn't be worried about parts...you won't be breaking any of those.
Besides, what are you going to break in an axle (realistically) that you can't carry as a spare and fix on the trail? IMHO, you're overthiking this, and whatever you do to make it easier to fix overseas will adversely affect it in the U.S.
Also, I'm running a '79 Ford HPD44 in my XJ and it was not easy to make work, nor cheap. I ended up narrowing the housing to Waggoneer width, which still puts it wider than a stock '30.
-----Matt-----
Besides, what are you going to break in an axle (realistically) that you can't carry as a spare and fix on the trail? IMHO, you're overthiking this, and whatever you do to make it easier to fix overseas will adversely affect it in the U.S.
Also, I'm running a '79 Ford HPD44 in my XJ and it was not easy to make work, nor cheap. I ended up narrowing the housing to Waggoneer width, which still puts it wider than a stock '30.
-----Matt-----
Fergie
Expedition Leader
Matt,
The problem I am having is that the WJ is 63.5" WMS-WMS, where the XJ is ~60". I'd love to be able to swap in any of the axles you mentioned, except the 8.8(narrower than an XJ axle), for the rear.
Also, I really don't want to have custom length axle shafts, front or rear. I would rather brain ****** this right now in the planning stage, rather than try to design it in the building stage when the vehicle is torn apart.
I don't need an HP44 front; I've done that to an XJ already, and it was a hassle. Heck, I'd be happy with an LP44 from the waggy, just to be rid of the CV axles in the front of the WJ.
Then there is all the elctrical crap to deal with again!
The problem I am having is that the WJ is 63.5" WMS-WMS, where the XJ is ~60". I'd love to be able to swap in any of the axles you mentioned, except the 8.8(narrower than an XJ axle), for the rear.
Also, I really don't want to have custom length axle shafts, front or rear. I would rather brain ****** this right now in the planning stage, rather than try to design it in the building stage when the vehicle is torn apart.
I don't need an HP44 front; I've done that to an XJ already, and it was a hassle. Heck, I'd be happy with an LP44 from the waggy, just to be rid of the CV axles in the front of the WJ.
Then there is all the elctrical crap to deal with again!