Trucks: Mid size, full size

[Betarocker]

I'm aware that someone in marketing lumped the 1/2ton pickups into the same category as 3/4ton and 1ton. Dodge and Chevy/GM 1500, 2500 & 3500, Ford F150, F250 & F350, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan all together, including their SUV counterparts.

Mid size includes Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Ford Ranger, Chevy Colorado, etc and the SUVs

If there are Full and Mid, there needs to be a Small. What vehicle fills that category?

 

[p nut]

If there are Full and Mid, there needs to be a Small.

Cute-Ute's, like Subaru's, Jeep Renegades, Rav4, etc. No trucks, no body on frame, no low range (except maybe the 2-door Wrangler?). Subaru used to have the Baja, which I thought was a really cool car. Wish they still made them.

 

[Martinjmpr]

If there are Full and Mid, there needs to be a Small. What vehicle fills that category?

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Nothing that is available in the US. If you want a "small" truck you'd have to find a used one. Pretty much any import truck made before about 1995 probably qualifies as "small." The first real "mid size" truck was the Dodge Dakota, introduced in the late 80's. It was bigger than the "compact" trucks of the day but smaller than the "full sized." By about 1996, though, all the other manufacturers had "up sized" their "small" trucks to fit the "mid sized" mold. And they've only gotten bigger since.
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Compare the likes of the Chevy Colorado to the Silverado 1500 and you'll see that the exterior size difference for similar cab configurations is not that much.
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Just for fun, take a look at an early 80's Toyota or Nissan/Datsun pickup if you want to see a true "small" truck.
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Here's my brother next to my 1984 Mazda B2000 pickup circa 1991:
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Even though that was a "2nd generation" compact truck it was tiny! (It could also go 400 miles on 11 gallons of gas.)

 

[fortel]

I wish I could do a side by side comparison of my first truck, a '76 Ford Courier, with my 2012 Frontier. I didn't think about how much mid-size trucks have grown until we brought back my dad's old '94 GMC 1500 for my son to drive. There's very little difference in size between it and the Frontier other than length.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'm in agreement with y'all here, having had actual small trucks before my 2nd gen Tacoma. I liked them and felt their position was right for me, not needing a full size work truck for what I do. But I think it's a tilting at windmills situation here. It's true of all things generally that nothing gets smaller unless that's a marketing benefit. Cell phones, computers, GPS receivers, iPods. Being smaller, lighter and doing more in less space is seen as a selling point.

Having an inch extra space here or there is sold as a competitive advantage in cars of similar class, so the tendency is for them to grow. Corollas and Civics used to be really small but now they're as big as Accords and Camrys once were. Look at 60s and 80s 1/2 ton trucks, they weren't big either. I stand next to an F150 now and it might well be mistaken for missing a dump body a couple of decades ago. The Super Duty to me feels just so danged big and tall, excessively so IMHO.

The thing is the market demand is there for actual small cars. That's why the Toyota Yaris and Chevy Sonic exist, which fill the position the Corolla and Cavalier once did.

I think the reason true small pickups don't exist is the segment for a body-on-frame vehicle in this size is squeezed by cost, regulations and insurance for crashes and MPG. The RAV4-type unibody vehicle doesn't lend itself to a pickup bed well structurally. The Honda Ridgeline does it but it took until the 2nd gen for them to figure out how to make it look sort of like a pickup. There's an inherent weakness that requires quite a bit of C-pillar engineering. If you notice the Avalanche and 1st gen Ridgeline had a large sloping one for this reason.

 

[Martinjmpr]

If we were paying $8 - $10/gallon for gas we might see demand for a true "compact" pickup but until and unless that happens, the "super sized compacts" i.e. mid-sized, or "mini trucks" that are 80% of the size of "full sized" trucks are going to be the smallest pickup you can get.
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In terms of utility vehicles, I would also point out that FWD car-derived vans (CDVs) like the Ford Transit Connect and its equivalent from Dodge (can't remember the name) are also cutting into any demand for small utility vehicles. Since those vehicles are small, FWD and have small engines, as well as fully enclosed bodies (unlike pickups which would need the addition of a cap or shell) they are more attractive to the local business that needs a utility vehicle but doesn't want a full sized truck.

 

[p nut]

I would have to say, though, would a compact pickup get that much better MPG, if at all? Even the current midsize isn't getting any better than fullsize trucks. Maybe the price point would be the main attraction, but again, comparing the current mid-size to fullsize, not seeing that, either...
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Forgot about the Transit Connect and other mini-cargo vans. They still don't get great MPG, but probably filling in that "small pickup" segment.

 

[Clutch]

On paper the difference between 1/2 tons and mid-sizes isn't all that much, but mang kinda crazy how everything has grown. Driving in today for work, looking at all the size differences...was looking at a F250 CCLB cruising next to a 1st gen Tacoma...the F250 dwarfed the Tacoma.

Keep on telling myself the jump from mid-size to a fullsize wouldn't be all that bad, however coming from a 1st gen Taco...the difference seems massive. Think stepping up to mid-size would be less shocking. Was looking a F150 yesterday...my gawd that grill feels like a wall when you are standing next to it. Damn, how trucks have grown. While the 3rd gen Tacoma feels like how fullsize trucks used to be...actually feels like a"normal" size to me, not too big, not too small. Heck, think it even has a better tow rating than my old '76 F250 I used to have. IIRC it was 6000 lbs, and the Tacoma is around 7600 lbs

 

[p nut]

On paper the difference between 1/2 tons and mid-sizes isn't all that much, but mang kinda crazy how everything has grown. Driving in today for work, looking at all the size differences...was looking at a F250 CCLB cruising next to a 1st gen Tacoma...the F250 dwarfed the Tacoma.

Keep on telling myself the jump from mid-size to a fullsize wouldn't be all that bad, however coming from a 1st gen Taco...the difference seems massive. Think stepping up to mid-size would be less shocking. Was looking a F150 yesterday...my gawd that grill feels like a wall when you are standing next to it. Damn, how trucks have grown. While the 3rd gen Tacoma feels like how fullsize trucks used to be...actually feels like a"normal" size to me, not too big, not too small. Heck, think it even has a better tow rating than my old '76 F250 I used to have. IIRC it was 6000 lbs, and the Tacoma is around 7600 lbs

Dude, I went from a subcompact Honda to the F150. Talk about size gap! It did take some time getting used to, especially parking. Plush ride, "feeling" of safety, riding position, etc. were all positive. But like you say, midsize would feel maybe about the same as well. But you live in the open country up there in ID. I don't see a downside to a fullsize for you. (uh oh, here we go again)

 

[Clutch]

Dude, I went from a subcompact Honda to the F150. Talk about size gap! It did take some time getting used to, especially parking. Plush ride, "feeling" of safety, riding position, etc. were all positive. But like you say, midsize would feel maybe about the same as well. But you live in the open country up there in ID. I don't see a downside to a fullsize for you. (uh oh, here we go again)

I used to drive a 2.5 ton dump, and a Mack Tri-Axle for a living....but yeah it has been awhile since I drove anything "big". Whole reason I started buying little Toyotas in the first place as to have something zippy for running around, while not at work. Driving those bigger trucks gets tiresome day in and day out. Especially in traffic...majority of people have no clue you can't stop those things on dime like their cars.

Fullsize would be fine here, except running some of the mountain trails...which is all relative [ ]...some get even too tight for the dirt bike. I bumped up my truck budget $10K more to $35K. I am thinking about a fullsize, while she insist I stay with a Tacoma. Has more than enough than I what need, just think Tacoma prices are a bit nutty for what you get.

 

[p nut]

I used to drive a 2.5 ton dump, and a Mack Tri-Axle for a living....but yeah it has been awhile since I drove anything "big". Whole reason I started buying little Toyotas in the first place as to have something zippy for running around, while not at work. Driving those bigger trucks gets tiresome day in and day out. Especially in traffic...majority of people have no clue you can't stop those things on dime like their cars.

Fullsize would be fine here, except running some of the mountain trails...which is all relative [ ]...some get even too tight for the dirt bike. I bumped up my truck budget $10K more to $35K. I am thinking about a fullsize, while she insist I stay with a Tacoma. Has more than enough than I what need, just think Tacoma prices are a bit nutty for what you get.

I did love squeezing into tiny little parking spots in that Honda. We unfortunately have some inconsiderate people here that find it needful to park over the lines by a foot or two. No prob with the Honda, though. Driving around was pretty fun, too. Like a little go kart.
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The trucks nowadays do drive "small" though. To me, at least. They're slightly lower, suspension is much improved, driving aids, etc. all make it feel a bit smaller than they are. I got into an old 80's Ford F250 crewcab last year and the thing felt humongous.

 

[Clutch]

I did love squeezing into tiny little parking spots in that Honda. We unfortunately have some inconsiderate people here that find it needful to park over the lines by a foot or two. No prob with the Honda, though. Driving around was pretty fun, too. Like a little go kart.
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The trucks nowadays do drive "small" though. To me, at least. They're slightly lower, suspension is much improved, driving aids, etc. all make it feel a bit smaller than they are. I got into an old 80's Ford F250 crewcab last year and the thing felt humongous.

Not that I do it often, but it is nice being squeeze the Tacoma through tight spots when in town.

Enterprise rents F250's CCSB here, have been looking at the Super Cab 8' bed...the CCSB has the same wheelbase. Thinking about renting one for a 2-3 day camping trip to see if I really like it. Have driven friend's before but just around the block.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I would have to say, though, would a compact pickup get that much better MPG, if at all? Even the current midsize isn't getting any better than fullsize trucks.

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Well, that little silver Mazda Pickup in my picture above got 37 MPG on a regular basis.
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Of course, it had manual steering, manual crank windows, no AC, an engine that made about 96hp tops, 14" wheels, a single wall bed, no ABS, no crumple zones, no air bags, and it was so slow on the freeway that I called it "The Silver Slug" (because it would never be mistaken for a bullet!)
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So, my 37mpg fuel miser would not be legal to sell in the US now (because of the lack of safety equipment) and the sluggish engine and Spartan accommodations would make it unlikely to sell in the modern truck market. COULD they make a "small truck" like that? Probably, but I doubt that anyone would buy it.

 

[p nut]

Not that I do it often, but it is nice being squeeze the Tacoma through tight spots when in town.

Enterprise rents F250's CCSB here, have been looking at the Super Cab 8' bed...the CCSB has the same wheelbase. Thinking about renting one for a 2-3 day camping trip to see if I really like it. Have driven friend's before but just around the block.

I dream of an 8' bed someday. Reminded today when I trying to stuff my bike in the shortbed with a bunch of stuff already in there. If you're able to get away with an 8' footer, I'd definitely do it. Let me know how it goes. It would be money well-spent to test it out for the weekend. Make sure you take GOOD pictures of the truck before you leave the lot. Enterprise tried to pawn a prior damage on us when we rented from them last month. Some dent under the front door.

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Well, that little silver Mazda Pickup in my picture above got 37 MPG on a regular basis.
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Of course, it had manual steering, manual crank windows, no AC, an engine that made about 96hp tops, 14" wheels, a single wall bed, no ABS, no crumple zones, no air bags, and it was so slow on the freeway that I called it "The Silver Slug" (because it would never be mistaken for a bullet!)
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So, my 37mpg fuel miser would not be legal to sell in the US now (because of the lack of safety equipment) and the sluggish engine and Spartan accommodations would make it unlikely to sell in the modern truck market. COULD they make a "small truck" like that? Probably, but I doubt that anyone would buy it.

I used to have an 89 Civic that got 40MPG, and a neighbor had an '86 CRX that got 50MPG, which is hybrid territory by today's standards. But like you said, it was basically just a motor, 4 wheels and a thin tin can cage.
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My father bought a 2.4L Ranger 2WD back in early 90's. Calling it a "Slug" would've been a compliment. Even mated to that manual transmission. I certainly would never buy a truck like that, personally.

 

[Clutch]

I dream of an 8' bed someday. Reminded today when I trying to stuff my bike in the shortbed with a bunch of stuff already in there. If you're able to get away with an 8' footer, I'd definitely do it. Let me know how it goes. It would be money well-spent to test it out for the weekend. Make sure you take GOOD pictures of the truck before you leave the lot. Enterprise tried to pawn a prior damage on us when we rented from them last month. Some dent under the front door

Thanks for the tip on Enterprise


Could definitely make an 8' bed work there times I could really really use, can make a RCLB work, no kids and 98% of the time I camp by myself, but I like to be able to recline the seat and toss stuff back there I don't want in the bed.

Offroad-wise...think the RCLB would be ideal.

Diggin' this guy's setup.


http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1511-siberian-hunting-truck-2006-dodge-ram-2500/

...and this.




This is more likely. Ha HA!