Update on Helinox cots and Exped mats 2016

[PlacidWaters]

In previous threads we've talked about issues with cots and mattresses, e.g. the low height of the Helinox Cot One (6") and the difficulty of putting a 30" Exped mattress on a Camptime-Roll-a-Cot Wide. Some new products to look at that might solve these problems:

HELINOX COT ONE VERSION 3: http://www.helinox.com.au/helinox-cot-one.php New leg design allows you to add leg extensions to bring the total height up to 15". The extensions are purchased separately. Pricey, of course, but it might inspire DIYers to experiment with ways to make the cot higher.

EXPED SYNMAT MEGA 12 MW: In 2015 only the LXW was available and it was called the Synmat 12. This year some new sizes have been added to this great mattress. The MW is about 26" wide x 72" long. That means that it will fit better on the Camptime-Roll-a-Cot Wide without sliding down off the rail on one side. I ordered one and find it quite comfortable. Hence my Exped Synmat Mega 12 LXW is for sale, shippable to US address.

EXPED SYNMAT 3-D 7: This has the same boxed sides as the Mega 12 series. Should be a bit more comfortable than the previous Synmat 7 in terms of useable width at the sides. This mattress would work well on the Helinox Cot One.

I've searched for a Helinox cot knockoff but can't find one. There are plenty of Helinox clone chairs, but no cots yet that I can find.

 

[Nanabijou]

PlacidWaters - thanks for the update. Very useful and informative. I think it's great that Helinox appears very keen to update their products in response to user feedback (something that CampTime could learn lots from). Yet - for me it's still not enticing enough. Personally - I still find the 32" Roll-A-Cot's advantages still outweigh the Helinox. Why? For one - I continue to love the 4 legs of the Roll-A-Cot. Very simple, sturdy, and easy to place over uneven ground for a nice and even sleep surface - as opposed to the Helinox which has 12 legs - that would make it a more cumbersome (more legs to set up) and a nightmare trying to position it over roots or other uneven ground that describes many of the campsites I visit. Understandably, this may not be an issue for those who stay on pristine sites. Also - with the Roll-A-Cot's retail price typically less than half that of the Helinox - for me - that's hard to ignore. With that said - I really want to love the Helinox. I really do. I love the design. The quality. The innovation. But not the price. If they could just find a way to design a Helinox Cot 4 that was 32" wide, 15" above the ground, used the same incredibly intuitive and clever ratchet system, used only 4 legs, and kept the size and weight similarly low - I'd probably put my 6 Roll-A-Cots in storage.

 

[PlacidWaters]

Nanabijou, I agree with you on most points. I too find the 12 legs of the Helinox off putting and don't plan to buy this leg set. I will try the solutions suggested in this forum for raising a cot, like bed raisers.

And the Helinox prices have gotten irrational.

The Roll-a-Cot and the Helinox cots are used in different situations. A 15" cot requires a 4-person tent. It can fit in a couple of the tallest 3-person tents, but the feeling is claustrophobic as your head is too close to the ceiling. I got the Helinox Cot One to use with the Kelty Trail Ridge 2 and 3. For that use it's ideal. It has allowed me to greatly lighten my gear load and camp setup now takes 15 minutes instead of 45 with a 4P tent. The drawback is that you have to crawl in and out of a low tent. The beauty of the Roll-a-Cot in a taller tent is you walk in and sit down. Great for older folks.

I think Roll-a-Cot should have solved the wingnut problem long ago, for example by making a plastic tool that fits over the wing nuts to facilitate tightening them. And some color coding on the legs would help to unfold them and align them properly with the holes.

Like I always say: if they got us consumers together we would easily be able to tell the manufacturers what needs to be improved.

Watch for 20% off sales on the Helinox Cot One. Often the LL Bean website will offer you an additional 10% off on top of that, which would bring it down to $200.

If you're put off by the $300 price tag of the Helinox Cot One, the Exped Mega 12 will give you approximately as much comfort as the cot and a thinner mattress. It will cost you far less, be easier to transport, and take less time to set up. The 4.7" thickness of the Mega 12 series sort of does away with the need for a low cot---provided that you're on flat ground.

Do you use the Roll-a-Cot for MOTORCYCLE camping?? I can't picture that. Have you seen the great review of the Helinox by the motorcyclist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3tQids996Q I like the part where he walks on the cot.

 

[Nanabijou]

I already have the Helinox Cot One. I used it for a cross-Ontario trip a couple of years ago. It's a good cot - but I still prefer the Roll-A-Cot overall. Will have to see what Helinox comes out with next though. And you're right about a tall tent. I have a Nemo Moki for motorcycle camping. It's a 3 person tent - with a relatively tall ceiling. So it accommodates the Roll-A-Cot quite well. I also use the Roll-A-Cots in our Nemo Wagontop 4P - which allows one to walk in without bending over - so very suitable for the Roll-A-Cots. My first motorcycle tent was a Nemo Andi (2 person). It was quite cramped with the Roll-A-Cot, and the ceiling was low - so that prompted me to purchase the larger and taller Moki.

Here is the Cot One in my Moki from a couple of summers ago. You can see that the Moki is nice and tall (48" ceiling height).

Actually - the Roll-A-Cot is very easy to take on the bike. It sits across the back just in front of the top case and on top of my yellow Ortlieb waterproof saddles. You can see it in this image below. I actually put my tent poles in the Roll-A-Cot carry case with the cot. And I like that the cot material is polyester and webbed so it doesn't get waterlogged out on the road in the rain. I just have to give it a couple of quick wipes and it's dry. Still - for sake of ease regarding packing and aerodynamics - I would much prefer the Helinox Cot One. It actually fits in the hard case. So it's very simple to pack.

And here is what it looks like on the bike from the rear.

I still plan to purchase the Exped LXW 12. However, over the years - no matter how thick and comfortable the air mattress - I can't seem to sleep well on them on the ground - unless the ground is perfectly even. When they are on top of the Roll-A-Cot, it doesn't matter if the ground is uneven - because the cot will have me lying flat. That seems to be the ticket for me.

Mike

 

[PlacidWaters]

Great photos, Nanabijou. That's a spiffy bike!

I received the Exped Synmat 3-D 7 MW today so now I can compare it to the Mega 12 MW.

Both are listed as 25.6" wide by Exped in the MW size. But in fact the Mega 12 is two inches wider than the 3-D when inflated. They're about 27" and 25" wide respectively. Oh well.

Some observations:

Synmat 3-D 7 MW: Inflated easily with about 4 fillings of the included yellow pump sack. On my side I can't feel the floor. When I sit on the mattress I do hit the floor. Perhaps not important. On one side it has the traditional Synmat fabric. The fabric on the other wide is soft and fuzzy, supposedly for colder nights. The mattress fits perfectly on the Helinox Cot One, stays put between the rails. Comfort on the floor: Good. Comfort on the cot: excellent.

Synmat Mega 12 MW: Comfort on the floor: excellent. Does not work well on the cot; too wide, too thick, tends to bounce.

So which is more comfortable, the 3-D 7 on the Helinox cot or the Mega 12 on the floor? I can't really tell the difference. If there's any difference it would show up on uneven ground, where the cot would be better.

What I conclude: For simplicity go with the Mega 12. For unpredictable ground go with the cot and the 3-D 7. If you're young and rugged you might be happy with the 3-D 7 on the ground. Both should work great on the Camptime Roll-a-Cot, but my guess (really just guessing, haven't tried it) is that they're both too wide for the standard Roll-a-Cot, which I found had 24" of useable space between the rails.

The Mega 12 MW supposedly weighs 7 oz more than the 3-D 7. I honestly can barely feel the difference, although the 3-D 7 does pack down smaller. If you're not an ultralighter I think the Mega 12 is (incredibly) a contender for backpacking. It weighs just 2 ounces more than the original Synmat 7, which has been a backpacking favorite. It's pretty amazing that a 4.7" mattress could be used for backpacking.

 

[Honu]

good update

and good thoughts on the roll-a-cot
I had one but went back my kids thought it was fun to sit on the one end have the other end fly up ahahahhaah
plus for some reason here in AZ the static is insane and the height


we still use our low and cheap alps when we have to go to ground heavy at 11 lbs compared to the helinox but packs small and flat for car campers
http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/furniture/cots/lightweight-cot

worth comparing

if I was not into hammocks so much now I would be buying the helinox the chairs have held up insanely well and they just seem to make great products !

 

[Nanabijou]

good update

and good thoughts on the roll-a-cot
I had one but went back my kids thought it was fun to sit on the one end have the other end fly up ahahahhaah
plus for some reason here in AZ the static is insane and the height


we still use our low and cheap alps when we have to go to ground heavy at 11 lbs compared to the helinox but packs small and flat for car campers
http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/furniture/cots/lightweight-cot

worth comparing

if I was not into hammocks so much now I would be buying the helinox the chairs have held up insanely well and they just seem to make great products !

I've read some reports of people complaining about the Roll-A-Cot acting like a teeter-totter when sat on - on one end. They thought this characteristic was terrible. So they sent it back. What a bad cot. And I understand exactly what they mean. I sent back each camp chair I've purchased because my nieces kept sitting on the arm instead of the seat - and each time they did this - the chair tipped over. Camp chairs are dangerous, and poorly designed because you can't sit comfortably and safely on the arms. Of course - I'm only joking here. The point being that the chair arm really isn't meant to be sat on. Neither is the end of a cot. Virtually all cots will tip if one sits on the end. Including the Helinox. Though you are less tempted to sit anywhere on the Helinox - because it's so low to the ground that it wouldn't be very comfortable as a chair. I suspect there probably isn't much of a market for 6" tall chairs. If you sit on the Roll-A-Cot in the middle, its 15" height makes it very comfortable. I see this as a huge advantage - but others likely won't care either way.

The Alps looks somewhat similar to the Go-Kot. I actually considered these kinds of cots for a while. They seem to have some "give" and they appear easy to set up. However, they still aren't tall enough to be practical for storing gear underneath, and this is something I need in order to maximize space in my tent. I like to have some floor space available so I'm not having to tip-toe through gear on the floor - "obstacle course" - style.

I was looking at hammocks too. But I usually sleep in a prone position and most hammocks aren't suited for this kind of sleeping. So I looked at bridge hammocks that are supposed to be better for front sleepers - but I haven't tried one yet. Granted - I'm not sure where I'd store all my gear with a hammock. And my sense is that a cot that more resembles the flat lay of a bed will be more comfortable for me.

One other issue I've had with the Helinox Cot One was that I found the tension to be too great. Really. Helinox sees this as an advantage and tout how taut their cot is. Yet - I tried to sleep on it one night in my living room (without an air mattress) and it felt very similar to sleeping on the floor. Very uncomfortable. This wouldn't be much of a concern if an air mattress was used, but I've been reading and seeing reports of people demonstrating the Helinox without an air mattress (or others looking at purchasing the Helinox - instead of, or to replace - their air mattress for camping) with the insinuation that the cot will be more comfortable than an air mattress. I have serious doubts about this for most people. This is perhaps one reason why seasoned campers will suggest that even with air mattresses - once its fully inflated - to lie on it and release a bit of air until it feels more comfortable. The ultimate in tension and firmness isn't likely a characteristic that most people look for in a bed.

My current feeling is that if people are thinking about the Helinox Cot One - they might actually be better served by purchasing an Exped Mega 12 or Exped Synmat 12 LXW and just sleeping on the tent floor. Much more plush, luxurious, and comfortable than the Helinox, lighter in weight, quick to set up and fill with the schnozzle sack, minimal difference in height above the tent floor, and much less expensive. Placidwaters has convinced me that the Exped - for many reasons - deserves a try, so I intend to purchase a Synmat 12 LXW before the summer is over. Of course - my intention isn't to use it on the tent floor (though that would work in a pinch) but to use it on top of my 32" Roll-A-Cots.

 

[Honu]

agree on the cot why the laughing I posted to more my kids once they found out how fun it was to launch things I know it would never have stopped hahahhhaha
true on height to nice to not roll out and try to get up from the knees in the morning hahahaha

hammocks are very lay flat though and no pressure points most folks lie in them straight and you have to be at a diagonal angle and you can side sleep etc..
bridge hammocks are even better for that kinda thing google up warbonnet ridgerunner for fun
for sure not for everyone as you need something to hook them to but once you try one setup properly most are like WOW never knew it could be so comfy

 

[Nanabijou]

agree on the cot why the laughing I posted to more my kids once they found out how fun it was to launch things I know it would never have stopped hahahhhaha
true on height to nice to not roll out and try to get up from the knees in the morning hahahaha

hammocks are very lay flat though and no pressure points most folks lie in them straight and you have to be at a diagonal angle and you can side sleep etc..
bridge hammocks are even better for that kinda thing google up warbonnet ridgerunner for fun
for sure not for everyone as you need something to hook them to but once you try one setup properly most are like WOW never knew it could be so comfy

You know after all of my reading about hammocks - it was the Warbonnet Ridgerunner that I was the most interested in. Still haven't tried one though. I'm sure I will at some point!

 

[Honu]

if you go to the hammockforums.net and find a local hang group going on ? or most are more than willing to help out
could be a way to check it out
otherwise they also hold there value insanely well like you would not loose more than %10 trying one out

I try and buy a lot of stuff only cause I find I have to try it myself hahahah sadly some works some does not

I bought a ridge runner for my wife and tried it out a few nights I prefer gathered end but its really nice and roomy and really like a floating cot in some ways but with no pressure points
also like some find a pad inside is a nice setup even over the under-quilts many use which is handy if you have to go to ground as you have a nice pad then

if you ever get to Phoenix let me know you can try one out

You know after all of my reading about hammocks - it was the Warbonnet Ridgerunner that I was the most interested in. Still haven't tried one though. I'm sure I will at some point!

 

[PlacidWaters]

One other issue I've had with the Helinox Cot One was that I found the tension to be too great. Really. Helinox sees this as an advantage and tout how taut their cot is. Yet - I tried to sleep on it one night in my living room (without an air mattress) and it felt very similar to sleeping on the floor. Very uncomfortable. . . .

I would never sleep on a cot without a mattress. Just about any mattress by itself will be more comfortable than a cot by itself. A taught cot avoids the problem of back pain for side sleepers.

My current feeling is that if people are thinking about the Helinox Cot One - they might actually be better served by purchasing an Exped Mega 12 or Exped Synmat 12 LXW and just sleeping on the tent floor.

I agree. The cot is 6" high and the mattress is 4.7". Not a big enough difference to warrant the cot. I bet you will end up trying the mattress alone and liking it (if getting up off the ground isn't a problem for you). I love the simplicity of it.

TIP: Consider asking for the medium-sized yellow schnozzle instead of the humongous large brown one. I wonder if you could try both pump sacks and see which one you like best.

Am I allowed to mention here that my Exped Mega 12 LXW is for sale? $145 + shipping. I'm only selling it because I got the MW to use for backpacking.

 

[Nanabijou]

So I purchased an Exped Synmat 12 LXW about a month ago, and have used it for a couple of wilderness camping trips. It's similar in size to my Nemo Cosmo Insulated 30" mattress so I've used it in the sleeve of my Nemo Mezzo Loft Luxury sleeping bag. What can I say about the Exped? Well - I've inflated it a number of times now using the schnozzel pumpbag and the effort involves seems less than the constant hand or foot pumping the Nemo Cosmo requires - though it's taking about the same amount of time to inflate both mattresses currently. With more practice, I hope to be quicker with the Exped. PlacidWaters has mentioned that the smaller schnozzel sac is easier to use than the larger one, but I haven't tried the smaller pump sac yet. The Exped also seems to be made out of a more robust (thicker?) material than the Nemo Cosmo - so I suspect that it will be more durable out in the field. I also found the Exped to be one of the quieter mats I've used when rolling around on it and changing positions during the course of a night's sleep. The Exped also appears to have a higher R value than the Nemos - so that can also be an advantage - particularly on colder nights.

Comfort is a tricky thing to evaluate for me. However, I'm starting to find that I like the insulated air beds more than the larger car camping luxury mattresses like the Thermarest Dream-Time. Why? The Dreamtime is supposed to be the most comfortable because it contains a layer of foam as well as an air mattress all-in-one. But it is much more bulky (even for car camping), and it just doesn't seem as plush as the Exped or Nemo to sleep on - in terms of loft. I'm finding that if I let out some air from the Exped and Nemo - they become extremely plush and fit your body like a glove, and are extremely comfortable for sleeping. On the other hand, mattresses with a foam layer + air pad just still feel too firm and are not as thick when inflated. They just don't have the loft. I believe Thermarest claims that the Dreamtime is a 3" thick pad with a 1" thick memory foam pad, but even after I self-inflate it and then add a few breaths - it just doesn't appear 4" thick. And if you let some air out - there is very little loft left for comfort in my experience. So it feels more like you are sleeping on a 2" air pad, with 1" foam, encased in a luxurious flocked cover. It's still comfortable - but I think I'm liking the others more. On my last car camping excursion, I brought along the Exped and Nemos instead of the Dreamtimes. Everyone slept great on them. The only potential issue is that one camper kept mentioning that their pad would slip off the Roll-A-Cot throughout the night, whereas with the Dreamtime, they never had this issue. With that said - others might still prefer the Dreamtimes.

And that brings me to my new Nemo Mezzo Loft Luxury sleeping bag. I think I've found the holy grail for me - so far. I've always avoided sleeping bags that have no bottoms - just a sleeve to insert an air mattress. I've just figured that the bottom of the sleeping bag provides some soft comfort (as well as some warmth even though it's compressed) and never saw the benefit of sleeved sleeping bags. With that said - I change positions often when I'm sleeping (I'm mostly a side and front sleeper) and would suddenly find myself wrapped up tightly (wound) in the bag in the middle of the night. And this is with large rectangular bags (I can't stand mummy bags). The Mezzo Loft has completely eliminated this problem. It's like sleeping on a real bed - with fitted sheets. Everything is tucked in at the edges and when I roll over, the bag doesn't move with me. Part of the bag even acts like a blanket so you can grab it and tuck it in around your shoulders like real bedding. The entire system is brilliant. Some argue that with the wider Mezzo Loft and sleeve system, there is more room that you must heat up (you can't just draw the bag in and tuck it closer to your body) and these bags tend to sleep colder. That may be true - but I'm finding that with the insulated air mattresses (Exped and Nemo) I've slept in some cold conditions (45F or 7C) overnight and have not been cold. One other benefit that I just discovered, is that these bags also pack smaller too. I just keep the air mattress inside the sleeve (deflated) and then fold and roll them up together. The sleeping bag + air mattress is about as small when compressed as my regular sleeping bag and appears to be about the same weight. So I save space and weight this way. In addition - I recently put the Nemo Mezzo Loft through a gentle cycle in my large capacity front loader washer and it fit like a regular load of laundry. My regular rectangular sleeping bags are a really tight squeeze in the washer - and just don't get washed well unless I bring them to a commercial laundromat. I'm also loving the zippers on both sides of the bag. Why doesn't everyone do this?!? The only issue I have currently with the Mezzo Loft is that I think the sleeve itself could be made out of a more plush material for some added comfort next to your skin.

I recently purchased a Thermarest Camper SV air mattress (30") so I can try out the speed valve system and compare it to the Exped and Nemo. I'll post my impressions once I receive it and get a chance to use it on a camping trip in early August.

 

[PlacidWaters]

So I purchased an Exped Synmat 12 LXW about a month ago, and have used it for a couple of wilderness camping trips. PlacidWaters has mentioned that the smaller schnozzel sac is easier to use than the larger one, but I haven't tried the smaller pump sac yet.

Here's how the two sacs compare. The large brown one is so big that you have to get some distance away from the mattress to have room to fill it with air. Inside a two-person tent could be hard because you've already got 6 feet of mattress in front of you and you need another three feet to get behind it with the sac. You also need long arms. After a lot of practice I was only able to fill it about one third full. Then you have to wrassle with it by practically lying on it to get the air out.

The small yellow sac fits much better in a confined space. Actually the most comfortable inflation is to lay the mattress on a picnic table. Then you have plenty of room to step back and fill the sac. I'm able to fill the yellow sac about 2/3 full. You don't have to lie on it to get the air out. The large sac is made of heavier material, probably will hold up better, but I've had no problem with the durability of the small sac.

Thanks for your comparison with the Nemo Cosmo. It's the first mattress people bring up if you mention the Exped Mega 12.

Nanabijou, are you a camping mattress addict??? Take it easy there.

 

[Nanabijou]

Here's how the two sacs compare. The large brown one is so big that you have to get some distance away from the mattress to have room to fill it with air. Inside a two-person tent could be hard because you've already got 6 feet of mattress in front of you and you need another three feet to get behind it with the sac. You also need long arms. After a lot of practice I was only able to fill it about one third full. Then you have to wrassle with it by practically lying on it to get the air out.

The small yellow sac fits much better in a confined space. Actually the most comfortable inflation is to lay the mattress on a picnic table. Then you have plenty of room to step back and fill the sac. I'm able to fill the yellow sac about 2/3 full. You don't have to lie on it to get the air out. The large sac is made of heavier material, probably will hold up better, but I've had no problem with the durability of the small sac.

Thanks for your comparison with the Nemo Cosmo. It's the first mattress people bring up if you mention the Exped Mega 12.

Nanabijou, are you a camping mattress addict??? Take it easy there.

Ha..ha...thanks for the extra information! I've mostly pumped the Exped with the schnozzel on a picnic table and that definitely is recommended. I've inflated it once while it was on my Roll-A-Cot in my tent - which worked O.K. - but was definitely more awkward than on the picnic table. Thanks for the explanation regarding the small and larger pump sacs.

I have friends who like to camp and I often supply the gear - and it's always nice to have extras. With that said - I think this might be it for me - at least for now. There doesn't appear to be any other mattresses on my radar. Of course - I'm always looking for the next "holy grail" for my set up - trying to find the next big thing that works better, is less bulky, packs down smaller, is more comfortable, is more durable, is affordable, and is quicker and easier to inflate. I haven't quite found it yet - but I get the feeling that I'm edging closer. I've noticed considerable improvement in these areas over the years with my air mattresses - and with my gear in general. I'm thankful that the gear I have currently is just so much better than the stuff I had in the 80s. Ha...ha...

 

[PlacidWaters]

- I think this might be it for me - at least for now. There doesn't appear to be any other mattresses on my radar. Of course - I'm always looking for the next "holy grail" for my set up - trying to find the next big thing that works better, is less bulky, packs down smaller, is more comfortable, is more durable, is affordable, and is quicker and easier to inflate. I haven't quite found it yet - but I get the feeling that I'm edging closer. I've noticed considerable improvement in these areas over the years with my air mattresses - and with my gear in general. I'm thankful that the gear I have currently is just so much better than the stuff I had in the 80s. Ha...ha...

HA! Famous last words: "This might be it for now." Exped and Helinox have us wrapped around their fingers, coming out with something that's just slightly better than last year's products. I predict that Helinox will make a wider Sunset Chair next year. I don't know what more Exped can do; they have a baffling number of mattresses already. I was very happy with the Synmat 7 but then had to have the new Synmat 7 3-D with boxed sides and no built-in pump. The Synmat LXW was great until they made a narrower, shorter, lighter version this year; had to have that too. (It really is better, can go more places.)

The improvement in mattresses over the years has been huge. In the 1970s camping was synonymous with nighttime suffering. Not so anymore.

I think Camptime has stagnated. I'd like to see them come out with a new cot---something lighter and easier to assemble. 5 lbs instead of 10 lbs and big plastic wingnuts.