Video: Global Warming Swindle

[mountainpete]

Apparently this video is making quite a stir in Europe. It is the counter-view to Al Gore's Inconvienient Truth. It is about 75 mins long and I have not viewed the whole video myself yet.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638&q=The+Great+Global+Warming+Swindle&hl=en

 

[paulj]

There are some indepth reactions to this 'swindle' on Realclimate.

http://www.realclimate.org/

 

[pwc]

Ok, that second link had WAY the hell too many parenthetical phrases (don't you think?)

 

[Grim Reaper]

Well good now we can get global warming into perspective. Everybody hates Gore so they will throw GW out the window as being what it is. The Sun got warmer...we got warmer. Same reason Mars is warmer and we sure didn't have any influence on that. One day the sun will blow us out of existance. We have no control over it and what it is doing is natural part of our cycle.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for pollution control and better use of our resources just tired of Global warming and its fall out leading to loosing me places to visit.

 

[kcowyo]

 

[DaveInDenver]

Same reason Mars is warmer and we sure didn't have any influence on that.

Not true, the warming of Mars is our fault, too. Betcha didn't know the rovers run out-of-tune 2-strokes.

 

[teotwaki]

Not true, the warming of Mars is our fault, too. Betcha didn't know the rovers run out-of-tune 2-strokes.

I was gonna blame Mars-Warming on Donald Rumsfeld :ar15:

 

[paulj]

Don't get me wrong. I am all for pollution control and better use of our resources just tired of Global warming and its fall out leading to loosing me places to visit.

I don't quite see how GW is loosing you places to visit. Not many islands have been drowned by rising sea levels, yet. It is still possible to drive ice roads, and even if they melt out earlier, you can still visit those areas by boat. Retreating glaciers have exposed new land for you to visit.

Or are you referring to areas where access is restricted by some administrative action? Predictions of GW have little to do with creating Wilderness areas.

Big storms in 2003 and 2006 have damaged roads and trails in the Washington forests and national parks. That means some areas that I could easily drive to are not accessible. While various climate models do predict greater storminess in this area, I suspect it is too early to blame those particluar storms on GW.

Here's one road that I used to drive, camp, and hike
http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/03/13/100loc_b1road001.cfm

Last fall I camped half a mile up from the washout featured in this North Cascades NP newsletter. Despite current administration policies, the article on page 3 dares to suggest the storm frequency has something to do with climate change.

http://www.nps.gov/noca/parknews/upload/Storm damage final.pdf

This article suggests that retreat of glaciers on Mt Rainier has something to do with the extent of road damage during last Novemeber's floods.
http://www.nps.gov/mora/naturescience/the-science-behind-the-november-2006-floods.htm

GW isn't going to go away just because you or I are tired of it.

paulj

 

[teotwaki]

Inconvenient Facts

The hand-wringers and tree-huggers have an agenda and will ruthlessly suppress opinions that might endanger their control of the vast amounts of money being funnelled into "Global Warming" studies, grants and other boondoggles.

They would have us believe that all of the natural ice in the world is melting. However, they really hate to hear that there are glaciers that are growing!!

Calving Glaciers are Unresponsive to Climate

Hubbard Glacier is defying the global paradigm of valley or mountain glacier shrinkage and retreat in response to global climate warming. Hubbard Glacier is the largest of eight calving glaciers in Alaska that are currently increasing in total mass and advancing. All of these glaciers calve into the sea, are at the heads of long fiords, have undergone retreats during the last 1,000 years, calve over relatively shallow submarine moraines, and have unusually small ablation areas compared to their accumulation areas

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-001-03/

Hubbard Glacier, Alaska: Growing and Advancing in Spite of Global Climate Change and the 1986 and 2002 Russell Lake Outburst Floods
U.S. Geological Survey Fact Sheet 001-03
January 2003
by D.C. Trabant, R.S. March, and D.S. Thomas

 

[paulj]

They would have us believe that all of the natural ice in the world is melting. However, they really hate to hear that there are glaciers that are growing!!

The fact that tidewater glaciers march to their own drummer is well known among glaciologists. That was a common topic when I studied the subject in the 1990s. I was hearing about those glaciers from the same scientists who were worried about the retreat of many other glaciers. As your quote states, the position of the terminus of these tide water glaciers is determined by the submarine moraine, not the climate. As long as the glacier can push this moraine forward it will advance; once the water gets too deep, the glacier starts calving rapidly, and retreats like the nearby Columbia glacier. Glacier Bay is another example of a tidewater glacier in retreat.

No one is hiding or suppressing knowledge of this kind phenomena. A glaciologist is just as happy studying an advancing glacier as a retreating one. A climatologist would be just as happy studying a cooling climate as a warming one. Arctic people still have to deal with climate changes (changing sea ice seasons, changing animal migrations, thawing permafrost), regardless of whether humans are to blame or not. People who depend on melting glaciers for mid summer water are still worried about the disappearance of those particular glaciers.

Here's a discussion on a scientific survey of glaciers around the world
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=129
There is a more recent comment focusing on tropical glaciers.

paulj

 

[pwc]

The non-hand-wringers and non-tree-huggers have an agenda and will ruthlessly suppress opinions that might endanger their control of the vast amounts of money being funnelled into non-"Global Warming" studies, grants and other boondoggles.

Amazingly enough, it reads the same. Neither side is completely right. Neither side is completely wrong. Learn to play well with others and life is easier. Call a bunch of people names and life is harder. At least that's what I've learned.

 

[teotwaki]

The fact that tidewater glaciers march to their own drummer is well known among glaciologists. That was a common topic when I studied the subject in the 1990s. I was hearing about those glaciers from the same scientists who were worried about the retreat of many other glaciers. As your quote states, the position of the terminus of these tide water glaciers is determined by the submarine moraine, not the climate. As long as the glacier can push this moraine forward it will advance; once the water gets too deep, the glacier starts calving rapidly, and retreats like the nearby Columbia glacier. Glacier Bay is another example of a tidewater glacier in retreat.

No one is hiding or suppressing knowledge of this kind phenomena. A glaciologist is just as happy studying an advancing glacier as a retreating one. A climatologist would be just as happy studying a cooling climate as a warming one. Arctic people still have to deal with climate changes (changing sea ice seasons, changing animal migrations, thawing permafrost), regardless of whether humans are to blame or not. People who depend on melting glaciers for mid summer water are still worried about the disappearance of those particular glaciers.

Here's a discussion on a scientific survey of glaciers around the world
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=129
There is a more recent comment focusing on tropical glaciers.

paulj

Paul,

Thanks for the links and the notes. Being ex-NASA (JPL ), I know of nothing more joyful than studying things without politics or practicality imposing limits.

However, I never said that the scientists were supressing the information. But, I did not hear about these glaciers from glaciologists or climatologists or any other real scientist (not Al Gore either). I also found absolutely no mention of them on "Real Climate" if you care to know. The point is that GW hand wringers don't want people to be confused by the fact that there are glaciers that grow and retreat irregardless of mankind and its evil designs. It is easier to sell an apocalyptic view that all natural ice in the world is melting because of careless homo-sapiens.

People in the Arctic having to deal with melting ice? Boo hoo! What about when North America was entirely ice covered? Whose fault was that? Who cried for the humans that had to adapt to the world? No one. We adapted.

How about for you older folks you may remember around 1975 "Global Cooling" and all of the now-familiar hysteria. Many wrong premature conclusions were drawn from all sides. Again, more ridiculous human "know-it-all" arrogance.

I get daily doses of the such arrogance from a brother-in-law espousing the GW mantra. He opposes any new oil drilling but happliy jets around the world to Africa and other impoverished area to view their wildlife and quaint stone-age lifestyles. He wears Patagonia fleece made from petro products, Nike shoes made from petro products and buys many things made of plastic/petro-products. Total joke, especially as most of those things are made in China, one of the bigger and dirtier polluters around. He hates it when I tell him that he is the root cause of the pollution caused GW trend.

If you think I am against conservation or only pro-Big Enterprise then think again. I still don't believe in GW either. I am not opposed to every person screwing in just one energy saving bulb in their house. But Al Gore telling me that GW and not the Soviets drained the Aral Sea, the Caspian Sea or the Sea of Azov??? Bah humbug. Al Gore should go home and reduce his own electric bill first.

 

[teotwaki]

The non-hand-wringers and non-tree-huggers have an agenda and will ruthlessly suppress opinions that might endanger their control of the vast amounts of money being funnelled into non-"Global Warming" studies, grants and other boondoggles.

Amazingly enough, it reads the same. Neither side is completely right. Neither side is completely wrong. Learn to play well with others and life is easier. Call a bunch of people names and life is harder. At least that's what I've learned.

Exactly. NEITHER side is completely right.

I am open to learning. So far what I have learned is nowhere near convincing me of "Global Warming" being any more real than "Global Cooling" was 30 years ago. I do not believe in unrestrained business pollution as is occurring in China and I don't believe in "no new oil drilling". Achieve balance but PLEASE spare me Al Gore's self serving hysteria. I'll read papers, web site etc. and discuss them pleasantly and politely. Cite your sources..... :beer:

 

[Grim Reaper]

I don't quite see how GW is loosing you places to visit.

That was pretty bad wording on my part. As a whole the environmentalist movement has gotten to be an extreme. They will site anything they can to limit actions. Global warming being a big one that they use to sell their agenda to the lemmings.

The Lemmings are that a VAST majority of the money they raise comes from people they solicit that have absolutely know idea about environmentalism. They sell by pulling on their heart strings with pictures of a hunter getting Bambi and threats that their grandchildren are going to have to wear SPF bazillion under a radiation suit. Then the fat house wife that made the donation, that NEVER goes more rural then the outlet mall to get a good price on her hiking boots that make her feel more in tune with the earth and is a fashion statement, feels like they did their part. She goes and draws the shades in the living room and turns on all the accent lighting at high noon and sits on he 80lb over weight butt eating bon bons watching days of our lives on the big screen feeling good about themselves. Then they go to their weight watchers get together and brag how they are now an "environmentalist" because they just gave money to some whacked out group that wants her to give up her $80k Mercedes and become a socialist.

They just gave money to a group that will limit access to people like you and I (the actual people who are a better description of environmentalist) that use as few lights as possible, sets the thermostat at 65 in the winter 78 in the summer, Does go and enjoy the forests and does clean ups, boondock camps etc.

Putting Global warming into proper context will remove one of the "selling points" of these extremest groups.

 

[Super Doody]

Like posters have said, there is always two sides to every story. The truth is in between.

About your hypocritical brother in law comments, if you dig deep enough everyone is hypocrit.

I get daily doses of the such arrogance from a brother-in-law espousing the GW mantra. He opposes any new oil drilling but happliy jets around the world to Africa and other impoverished area to view their wildlife and quaint stone-age lifestyles. He wears Patagonia fleece made from petro products, Nike shoes made from petro products and buys many things made of plastic/petro-products. Total joke, especially as most of those things are made in China, one of the bigger and dirtier polluters around. He hates it when I tell him that he is the root cause of the pollution caused GW trend.

The only way to have 100% non-impact to the environment, we as a human will need to be deceased or live in huts. Since thats not pratical we have conserve (not preserve) limited resources.