PackerBadger
New member
Overweight and some type of incident equals ammunition for lawyers, if it gets to that point. Drunk driving texting ect. and some type of incident equals ammunition for lawyers.
Weight
- Thread starter eyemgh
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calicamper
Expedition Leader
They don’t drive 70-80mph either
Sure they do. In the NT speed limits are as high as 130km/h.
Steel bumpers and mud tires and just about anything else could also be ammunition for lawyers, but that is why we have insurance.
PackerBadger
New member
Are those bumpers and tires street legal? Overweight is not street legal.
Unless you are a commercial hauler, being overweight is also street legal.
wreckdiver1321
Overlander
Not a domestic truck owner here, haven't been for some time, but I was recently having this discussion over on ih8mud regarding the 100 Series Land Cruiser. An owner from Australia chimed in when talking about weight, and it led to some interesting discussion.
The basic gist of it is, the 100 Series has a different rating in the US vs Australia for exactly comparable vehicles. The US version only ever received one trim level, with one engine and standardized options (for the most part - there are some minor exceptions). In Australia, there are multiple options and trim levels, but that should not impact the GVWR/GVM at all, only the curb weight and thus the payload. The important thing is that the frame, axles, and suspension are the same, which they are. The US spec Land Cruiser has a listed curb weight of 5360# and a GVWR of 6830#, for a payload of 1470#. An exactly spec'd Land Cruiser in Australia has a curb weight of 5360# as well, but a GVM of 7187#, or 357 pounds more than that same vehicle in the United States. Comparing apples to apples, the vehicles are basically identical other than driving position. Interesting to note that Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR.
They drive similar speeds, as posted above. The Northern Territories have a speed limit of about 80mph, while the remainder of the country has limits at 100-110 km/h, or 62-68 mph. They're more strict about enforcing GVM - meaning they actually enforce it for non-commercial passenger cars. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps it's a way for the manufacturer to shift liability? If it's a company-level decision, it could be about directing attention toward certain models, i.e. "buy the more expensive F150 rather than the Ranger because of the superior payload" (totally pulling that out of the wild blue, it's based on nothing).
Another interesting note, I've been searching sporadically the last few days about the legality of an overweight passenger car. I cannot find anything that strictly requires a non-commercial passenger vehicle to operate within the GVWR parameters. There may be a more or less strict law depending on the state, but there's nothing in federal code from what I can see.
I did query my insurance agent, as well as a few friends in the insurance business, and the consensus seems to be that it's almost never a factor in insurance claims. Providers don't generally have that listed in their contracts, and they generally don't ask about it in the case of an accident. The only times I've heard of it occurring involved cases of obvious disregard for weight limits, like a half-ton pickup with a full 350-gallon water tank in the bed. Otherwise it's not a factor where I or my friends live (mostly the NW United States).
The basic gist of it is, the 100 Series has a different rating in the US vs Australia for exactly comparable vehicles. The US version only ever received one trim level, with one engine and standardized options (for the most part - there are some minor exceptions). In Australia, there are multiple options and trim levels, but that should not impact the GVWR/GVM at all, only the curb weight and thus the payload. The important thing is that the frame, axles, and suspension are the same, which they are. The US spec Land Cruiser has a listed curb weight of 5360# and a GVWR of 6830#, for a payload of 1470#. An exactly spec'd Land Cruiser in Australia has a curb weight of 5360# as well, but a GVM of 7187#, or 357 pounds more than that same vehicle in the United States. Comparing apples to apples, the vehicles are basically identical other than driving position. Interesting to note that Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR.
They drive similar speeds, as posted above. The Northern Territories have a speed limit of about 80mph, while the remainder of the country has limits at 100-110 km/h, or 62-68 mph. They're more strict about enforcing GVM - meaning they actually enforce it for non-commercial passenger cars. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps it's a way for the manufacturer to shift liability? If it's a company-level decision, it could be about directing attention toward certain models, i.e. "buy the more expensive F150 rather than the Ranger because of the superior payload" (totally pulling that out of the wild blue, it's based on nothing).
Another interesting note, I've been searching sporadically the last few days about the legality of an overweight passenger car. I cannot find anything that strictly requires a non-commercial passenger vehicle to operate within the GVWR parameters. There may be a more or less strict law depending on the state, but there's nothing in federal code from what I can see.
I did query my insurance agent, as well as a few friends in the insurance business, and the consensus seems to be that it's almost never a factor in insurance claims. Providers don't generally have that listed in their contracts, and they generally don't ask about it in the case of an accident. The only times I've heard of it occurring involved cases of obvious disregard for weight limits, like a half-ton pickup with a full 350-gallon water tank in the bed. Otherwise it's not a factor where I or my friends live (mostly the NW United States).
The payload rating has as much to do with the Govt regulations in the location the vehicle is sold, as it does actual capability. The Jeep Gladiator also has a higher payload in Australia than it does in the US, same truck, off same assembly line...
A couple points about operating above GVWR: 1) even if you aren't at fault in a collision, the other party's insurance carrier could assign you a degree of comparative negligence if they become aware that you're overloaded, just as if you were speeding. The rationale being that if you weren't overloaded, you have have been able to stop sooner and avoid the collision, or that the damage was exacerbated by the operator being overloaded. The odds of this are slim unless there is severe bodily injury/death, or your vehicle is quite obviously grossly overloaded. 2) just because we purchase insurance to protect us from our negligence, does not mean we are absolved from any legal ramifications due to our negligence - again, largely determined by severity of injuries and obviously grossly overloaded your vehicle is. 3) how much liability coverage do you carry? If there's a civil suit and your truck is found to be grossly overloaded, the award may be greater than your insurance coverage, leaving you personally liable for the balance. 4) since laws and enforcement vary from one state to another, and this forum is based on the theme of travel, it's best to prepare for the most stringent interpretation of the law, regardless of the situation where you reside. If you never leave the state you reside in, and your state of residence doesn't enforce GVW on personal/non-commercial vehicles, then I guess all of this is moot.
I was actually thinking that a while after I wrote it. Imagine driving through Wyoming at 80mph with 3000 lbs in the bed of a ranger
I've put a little over 2k of crushed stone in the bed of my F150(maybe 2500 lbs) with my air bags fully inflated to level it out and it was still a bit on the wonky side and was not going any faster than 40 mph. i brought it a mile down the road to a nursery that wanted it to pave their road with.
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billiebob
Well-known member
yep, trailer brakes are the same. You need trailer brakes at 1500# in California but in Alaska you don't need trailer brakes until 5500#
billiebob
Well-known member
have a child run in front of you, hit them, and get ready for jail. We have all done it but don't advise others "good to go"I was actually thinking that a while after I wrote it. Imagine driving through Wyoming at 80mph with 3000 lbs in the bed of a ranger
I've put a little over 2k of crushed stone in the bed of my F150(maybe 2500 lbs) with my air bags fully inflated to level it out and it was still a bit on the wonky side and was not going any faster than 40 mph. i brought it a mile down the road to a nursery that wanted it to pave their road with.
your community spirit won't help once you have an accident, why not do 2 loads if it was only a mile
wreckdiver1321
Overlander
I think you make a couple great points here with regards to legal ramifications and traveling interstate. Insurance will (may) take care of the damage, but that's not the whole story. I think, as you said, it's incredibly situational.
Traveling interstate is another good point, though I've yet to see a state that polices vehicle weight. In the event of an accident, it may come into consideration, but I think that's likely to be the exception more often than the rule.
To be clear: I am not advocating traveling over GVWR. I think keeping your rig as light as you can within reason and operating it within it's parameters is the prudent way to go. I switched from a midsize pickup to a Land Cruiser for precisely this reason. I do think the discrepancy in vehicle weight ratings based on locale is an interesting topic though.
I didnt advise others of anything. In fact, my entire point was that it felt uncomforable in a significantly larger, more capable truck than a Ranger. So save it.
You and everyone else also have no idea what the payload rating of my truck is. Sorry to offend you.
Grassland
Well-known member
To the OP,
You already are miles ahead of the average truck owner. You did some reading and you weighed your truck and gear
Knowing what you do now, just pack as light as possible, and drive sane. Keep up on maintenance, and when the time and budget allow, step up to a truck that can handle it
I'd rather have a guy 300# over his GVWR who knows it and takes care of his truck and drives properly on the road, than a guy 500# under his GVWR who doesn't check a thing driving like an idiot.
Any time a see a vehicle on the side of the road with a failed ball joint, it's usually an empty half ton, if it isn't some sedan.
You already are miles ahead of the average truck owner. You did some reading and you weighed your truck and gear
Knowing what you do now, just pack as light as possible, and drive sane. Keep up on maintenance, and when the time and budget allow, step up to a truck that can handle it
I'd rather have a guy 300# over his GVWR who knows it and takes care of his truck and drives properly on the road, than a guy 500# under his GVWR who doesn't check a thing driving like an idiot.
Any time a see a vehicle on the side of the road with a failed ball joint, it's usually an empty half ton, if it isn't some sedan.