What about BOB?
- Thread starter RobRed
- Start date
summerprophet
Adventurer
Sigh.
Nothing against the OP, but I have to chime in here. This whole bug out bag thing has dragged on long enough and I need to point out a few things.
I don't know who is preparing these whole BOBs, military, ex-military, wanna-be military, and I am sure there are a whole lot out there that are well designed, and functional, but everything I am seeing is overblown, poorly packed behemoths covered in camo with **** hanging off every corner.
If I was to make a judgement on what I typically see in these bags it is that you plan on being less than a mile from where you started, well armed and easilly hidden. Great if you have a long list of warrants out on you, but not great if you need to hump out of a remote vehicle failure or through a devistated area.
My idea of a bug out bag would be something light, with only the necessities and incredibly comfortable. Of course, in my mind, I am thinking something along the lines of on-foot travel of 100 miles in three days. Your goals may be different.
Firstly, talk to people before purchasing. Mountain climbers, distance hikers, and marathoners are who you should be seeking out, not the hunter and fisherman crowd. 40 years ago, the skills were the same, but these days, the folks that shop at cabelas are generally within sight of their vehicles at all times.
For example, my pack is always prepared for a mountain rescue call out. It contains nylon and polypropylene clothing, a sleeping pad, sleeping bag, micro sized stove and single pot, water bottle, dehydrated calories, and the other 13 essentials. Additionally, I have climbing gear, radio, and a ridiculous first aid kit. In summer, with all the extra gear you don't need (helmet, harness, crampons), I still come in at a under 30 lbs. in winter, with better sleeping pad, bivy sack, and bag, and more insulation, and extra fuel, I am around 45 lbs.
at any given moment, I can grab my pack and boots, and be gone for up to three days, and have the food stores in my bag for 100 miles of travel. Fast and streamlined, with no extra ****.
The more **** you carry, the less you travel. Americans are used to having so much extra, it has become a way of life. your bag is your backup plan for when **** goes wrong. Does your backup plan need a backup? No! Ditch the extra gloves. Find gloves that suit all your needs. (Nitrile gloves are an exception, keep those too). You have a sat phone, and maps, and compass..... You can probably ditch the plb. If you have good maps with coordinates (usgs) and know how to use a compass, you can probably ditch the gps too.
Athletic socks?!?! Really!?!? Great for a game of tennis, but not for distance hiking, or snow, or creek crossings. Invest in proper hiking socks. Thorlo/smart wool are good brands. Same with your footware. You cannot possibly spend too much money on your feet.
Jeans? NO! If you a jeans wearing kind of guy, you are probably wearing some when you need to bug out. Lightweight nylon with tough knees and butt are what you are looking for.
And finally, for the love of God will all you bug out/prepper/survivalist types, learn how to pack a damn bag. Whenever I see a camo backpack not being worn by active military, it is a sad display of poor packing, weight distribution, and (usually) bag selection. Expedition sized backpacks are made for expeditions, not so some security guard can drag his entire camo wardrobe 3 blocks when he runs out of gas in a minority neighborhood.
Rant off.
Nothing against the OP, but I have to chime in here. This whole bug out bag thing has dragged on long enough and I need to point out a few things.
I don't know who is preparing these whole BOBs, military, ex-military, wanna-be military, and I am sure there are a whole lot out there that are well designed, and functional, but everything I am seeing is overblown, poorly packed behemoths covered in camo with **** hanging off every corner.
If I was to make a judgement on what I typically see in these bags it is that you plan on being less than a mile from where you started, well armed and easilly hidden. Great if you have a long list of warrants out on you, but not great if you need to hump out of a remote vehicle failure or through a devistated area.
My idea of a bug out bag would be something light, with only the necessities and incredibly comfortable. Of course, in my mind, I am thinking something along the lines of on-foot travel of 100 miles in three days. Your goals may be different.
Firstly, talk to people before purchasing. Mountain climbers, distance hikers, and marathoners are who you should be seeking out, not the hunter and fisherman crowd. 40 years ago, the skills were the same, but these days, the folks that shop at cabelas are generally within sight of their vehicles at all times.
For example, my pack is always prepared for a mountain rescue call out. It contains nylon and polypropylene clothing, a sleeping pad, sleeping bag, micro sized stove and single pot, water bottle, dehydrated calories, and the other 13 essentials. Additionally, I have climbing gear, radio, and a ridiculous first aid kit. In summer, with all the extra gear you don't need (helmet, harness, crampons), I still come in at a under 30 lbs. in winter, with better sleeping pad, bivy sack, and bag, and more insulation, and extra fuel, I am around 45 lbs.
at any given moment, I can grab my pack and boots, and be gone for up to three days, and have the food stores in my bag for 100 miles of travel. Fast and streamlined, with no extra ****.
The more **** you carry, the less you travel. Americans are used to having so much extra, it has become a way of life. your bag is your backup plan for when **** goes wrong. Does your backup plan need a backup? No! Ditch the extra gloves. Find gloves that suit all your needs. (Nitrile gloves are an exception, keep those too). You have a sat phone, and maps, and compass..... You can probably ditch the plb. If you have good maps with coordinates (usgs) and know how to use a compass, you can probably ditch the gps too.
Athletic socks?!?! Really!?!? Great for a game of tennis, but not for distance hiking, or snow, or creek crossings. Invest in proper hiking socks. Thorlo/smart wool are good brands. Same with your footware. You cannot possibly spend too much money on your feet.
Jeans? NO! If you a jeans wearing kind of guy, you are probably wearing some when you need to bug out. Lightweight nylon with tough knees and butt are what you are looking for.
And finally, for the love of God will all you bug out/prepper/survivalist types, learn how to pack a damn bag. Whenever I see a camo backpack not being worn by active military, it is a sad display of poor packing, weight distribution, and (usually) bag selection. Expedition sized backpacks are made for expeditions, not so some security guard can drag his entire camo wardrobe 3 blocks when he runs out of gas in a minority neighborhood.
Rant off.
RobRed
Explorer
Great info guys.
Let me reiterate that the cost of my gear bag comes at what I had available in stock, in my vehicle / garage, except the bags themselves. I had no idea that this topic was so polar around money.
The 5.11 RUSH 24 is by no means expedition size. It's quite manageable on my 6'4" frame. The camo choice on the bags was shear fun - I liked it better than black or basic green. I'm not trying to be tacticool with it (as I pointed out very tongue-in-cheek in my blog post).
@rayra
I wasn't trying to change your position on anything. The thesis of the original post was to ask about how people prepare for bad things - I shared my gear list so far and it seemed to anger you somehow (sometimes tough to tell in a forum). So If I understand your response it's about the money not my gear choice. That's fine. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on those choices. I'm sure we have differing priorities on a variety of topics and you choose to spend your money where you do. In Expo terms there are Chevy guys (you), Toyota guys (me) and Land Rover guys (Scott Brady?).
@summerprophet
I'm not sure why you need to feel a rant? You have good suggestions. I'm not sure if you think I decided that this go bag was some kind of trendy accessory or what??? This is gear that I have acquired over the years for various things and decided to consolidate it. I will not give up the PLB. I've answered some of your points below in the line by line response. I assembled this in a modular fashion so things could easily be dropped if un needed like a pair of jeans, because yes, I'm a jeans wearing kinda guy. I'd be happy to have you critique the overall packing of this little bag. I feel I took time to consider the placement of items and why I choose to the smaller sub packs so as to make balancing the gear easier and repeatable.
@coastwatcher42
Quite an in depth response - I appreciate that. You bring up some great ideas. A couple were left off the list that you mention that I have in there and I'll add them to make the list more complete. I'll consider some items you mention and report it back.
Here's some responses
1) The clothes choices are evolving. What was listed was already carried the vehicle.
2) Most first aid items are in the MK7 pouch labeled FIRST AID. The trauma items are in the side pocket as they are instantly accessible and somewhat larger than the MK 7 pouch. I understand the logic in a single FA kit location - I re-eval and see what makes sense. I maintain an extensive large kit in the Land Cruiser so if it's an emergency based at the vehicle there are plenty of supplies in a single kit (Pelican 1500EMS)
3) Great Idea on the poncho.
4) the shield came with the chem lights so I left it with. Never used one. Ditched.
5) I have a dragonfly that I thought would be useable but I like the idea of no gas requirement. ORDERED. In titanium of course.
6) The cook set I have is snow peak - it's basically two cups nest, titanium spork included.
7) I already have a Nalgene separately. I'll look at the carrier.
8) I already carry Mountain House in the vehicle and could easily add the pack if needed.
9) Thought about this but decided this is not a longterm pack. I'll reconsider
10) Right now I just have the SOL bivy (it was a gift). I'll look into your suggestions. I have a box load of the MSR steaks and will load as appropriate.
11) Forgot this on the list... I carry both Purell and Campsuds
12) I have urban maps (general AAA) national and local. I have a library of TOPO maps for areas that I travel. The Topos of choice live in the vehicle. Places I would use them would require my Land Cruiser I can grab them if needed.
13) See Item 1 - Evolving.
14) @rayna suggested the vehicle version - your suggestion may be perfect for both situations. The only tactical part of the deal is the backpack... I'm all civilian.
15) I actually have the cotton ball Vaseline. I used my foodsaver to pack them.
16) I'll look into the chainsaw change. The one I have I have never deployed as it was something of a gift.
17) I prefer the moist wipes as they make me feel oh so good.
18) I've been looking for a sharpening device - thanks for suggesting.
19) the colder weather gloves weight 1 oz and are over gloves. I understand your point.
20) Shoes are GTG.
21) Like ammo I too like to keep it simple with batteries. 123's are available at 7eleven in this part of the world - they are everywhere. I do carry spares of both types. My EOTech uses 123s so I'm inclined to keep spares. The load out I listed has a Streamlite that uses 2 AA. The Surefire wrist light is a rechargeable via common USB, if its dead its an inconvenience. I may consider a different third light but I have it and its a ************ wrist light. As you mention the Surefire headlamp uses CR123. That head lamp has infinitely adjustable brightness which adjust low can extend the burn time significantly.
@seagrace
I think that was covered. This go bag consists of elements that are vehicle based or mobile for survival or other inconvenient situations. I thought it was common sense (as you point out) that you may need other or different items depending on the adventure you might be on. I think in the context of the topic I shouldn't need to point out 0 degree parka if I'm headed to Alaska.
Thanks all - I hope this discussion continues. Some really good thoughts from all sides.
Let me reiterate that the cost of my gear bag comes at what I had available in stock, in my vehicle / garage, except the bags themselves. I had no idea that this topic was so polar around money.
The 5.11 RUSH 24 is by no means expedition size. It's quite manageable on my 6'4" frame. The camo choice on the bags was shear fun - I liked it better than black or basic green. I'm not trying to be tacticool with it (as I pointed out very tongue-in-cheek in my blog post).
@rayra
I wasn't trying to change your position on anything. The thesis of the original post was to ask about how people prepare for bad things - I shared my gear list so far and it seemed to anger you somehow (sometimes tough to tell in a forum). So If I understand your response it's about the money not my gear choice. That's fine. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on those choices. I'm sure we have differing priorities on a variety of topics and you choose to spend your money where you do. In Expo terms there are Chevy guys (you), Toyota guys (me) and Land Rover guys (Scott Brady?).
@summerprophet
I'm not sure why you need to feel a rant? You have good suggestions. I'm not sure if you think I decided that this go bag was some kind of trendy accessory or what??? This is gear that I have acquired over the years for various things and decided to consolidate it. I will not give up the PLB. I've answered some of your points below in the line by line response. I assembled this in a modular fashion so things could easily be dropped if un needed like a pair of jeans, because yes, I'm a jeans wearing kinda guy. I'd be happy to have you critique the overall packing of this little bag. I feel I took time to consider the placement of items and why I choose to the smaller sub packs so as to make balancing the gear easier and repeatable.
@coastwatcher42
Quite an in depth response - I appreciate that. You bring up some great ideas. A couple were left off the list that you mention that I have in there and I'll add them to make the list more complete. I'll consider some items you mention and report it back.
Here's some responses
1) The clothes choices are evolving. What was listed was already carried the vehicle.
2) Most first aid items are in the MK7 pouch labeled FIRST AID. The trauma items are in the side pocket as they are instantly accessible and somewhat larger than the MK 7 pouch. I understand the logic in a single FA kit location - I re-eval and see what makes sense. I maintain an extensive large kit in the Land Cruiser so if it's an emergency based at the vehicle there are plenty of supplies in a single kit (Pelican 1500EMS)
3) Great Idea on the poncho.
4) the shield came with the chem lights so I left it with. Never used one. Ditched.
5) I have a dragonfly that I thought would be useable but I like the idea of no gas requirement. ORDERED. In titanium of course.
6) The cook set I have is snow peak - it's basically two cups nest, titanium spork included.
7) I already have a Nalgene separately. I'll look at the carrier.
8) I already carry Mountain House in the vehicle and could easily add the pack if needed.
9) Thought about this but decided this is not a longterm pack. I'll reconsider
10) Right now I just have the SOL bivy (it was a gift). I'll look into your suggestions. I have a box load of the MSR steaks and will load as appropriate.
11) Forgot this on the list... I carry both Purell and Campsuds
12) I have urban maps (general AAA) national and local. I have a library of TOPO maps for areas that I travel. The Topos of choice live in the vehicle. Places I would use them would require my Land Cruiser I can grab them if needed.
13) See Item 1 - Evolving.
14) @rayna suggested the vehicle version - your suggestion may be perfect for both situations. The only tactical part of the deal is the backpack... I'm all civilian.
15) I actually have the cotton ball Vaseline. I used my foodsaver to pack them.
16) I'll look into the chainsaw change. The one I have I have never deployed as it was something of a gift.
17) I prefer the moist wipes as they make me feel oh so good.
18) I've been looking for a sharpening device - thanks for suggesting.
19) the colder weather gloves weight 1 oz and are over gloves. I understand your point.
20) Shoes are GTG.
21) Like ammo I too like to keep it simple with batteries. 123's are available at 7eleven in this part of the world - they are everywhere. I do carry spares of both types. My EOTech uses 123s so I'm inclined to keep spares. The load out I listed has a Streamlite that uses 2 AA. The Surefire wrist light is a rechargeable via common USB, if its dead its an inconvenience. I may consider a different third light but I have it and its a ************ wrist light. As you mention the Surefire headlamp uses CR123. That head lamp has infinitely adjustable brightness which adjust low can extend the burn time significantly.
@seagrace
I think that was covered. This go bag consists of elements that are vehicle based or mobile for survival or other inconvenient situations. I thought it was common sense (as you point out) that you may need other or different items depending on the adventure you might be on. I think in the context of the topic I shouldn't need to point out 0 degree parka if I'm headed to Alaska.
Thanks all - I hope this discussion continues. Some really good thoughts from all sides.
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coastwatcher42
New member
The SOL is a nice piece of kit but is limited in the temperatures that it can be comfortably be used in. For just a little added weight and size, the Snugpak Softie 3 Merlin will allow you to be more comfortable in cooler temperatures.
http://www.proforceequipment.com/product-details.php?id=44&catid=4
RobRed
Explorer
The SOL is a nice piece of kit but is limited in the temperatures that it can be comfortably be used in. For just a little added weight and size, the Snugpak Softie 3 Merlin will allow you to be more comfortable in cooler temperatures.
http://www.proforceequipment.com/product-details.php?id=44&catid=4
That thing is expensive
RobRed
Explorer
Maintaining your streak of useless one line posts. Carry on.
coastwatcher42
New member
That thing is expensive
The link was to the US distributor with the MSRP listed. You should be able to get one for quite a bit less.
daddyusmaximus
Explorer
I too, have a BOB that lives in my truck.
My need for the BOB is only for it to be there. I only need it to last a long time, and work if I should ever need it. Light weight is a small concern to me. I will never again be covering 100 miles in 3 days on foot... but how ever far I get, I just want solid gear that will last, work well once it is unpacked and brought into use. As long as nothing overly tragic happens, my BOB will be sitting there, doing nothing. Just living in the truck like some big bulky insurance policy.
I am one of those who's goals are very different. I am partially disabled and walk with a cane if required to go any distance over 100 yds or so. I can still carry a somewhat heavy load (my BOB is a 55# USMC ILBE) but I cannot cover very much ground at a stretch, loaded down or not. It's a weird kind of limitation, but I deal with it. I know that my decades of military life and nostalgia probably play a big role in my selection of heavy rugged military gear, but that stuff is built to last, and normally much less expensive than the latest in lightweight civilian adventure gear.
My need for the BOB is only for it to be there. I only need it to last a long time, and work if I should ever need it. Light weight is a small concern to me. I will never again be covering 100 miles in 3 days on foot... but how ever far I get, I just want solid gear that will last, work well once it is unpacked and brought into use. As long as nothing overly tragic happens, my BOB will be sitting there, doing nothing. Just living in the truck like some big bulky insurance policy.
coastwatcher42
New member
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RobRed
Explorer
I was kidding. With all the price sensitivity I thought I'd try to cut the tension.
RobRed
Explorer
Well said and thank you for sharing. I think you make a great point in that we all have different needs and opinions about how to achieve the goal. I believe like insurance you will probably never need to go full evac mode with your Go-Bag (BOB). Some will of course but the majority of us won't. Piece of mind is just as important as which flashlight you have.
coastwatcher42
New member
I was kidding. With all the price sensitivity I thought I'd try to cut the tension.
I was wondering why someone with a $4000 BOB would balk over a $200 sleeping bag.
coastwatcher42
New member
I ran across this today on a newsleter I subscribe to and it piqued my interest.
http://www.readyforanythingwire.com/story/350864
If you thought the sleeping bag was expensive
, wait until you see the price of these :Wow1:.
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RobRed
Explorer
If it was made by Casio I'd be all over it!
The last Breitling I owned was completely unreliable.
This brings up a point actually... summerprophet suggested I ditch my PLB since I had other means of emergency comms. I get the impression that an actual PLB like the one I carry is not well known in what it is or does.
For folks who don't know a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) is a class of device the provides a means of signalling for help via satellite and provides local homing beacon functionality. The primary difference between an actual PLB and say InReach or SPOT is these are commercial services whereas the PLB operates in conjunction with cospas-sarsat . These devices can signal for greater than 24 hours providing rescuers a precision location to find you.
The last Breitling I owned was completely unreliable.
This brings up a point actually... summerprophet suggested I ditch my PLB since I had other means of emergency comms. I get the impression that an actual PLB like the one I carry is not well known in what it is or does.
For folks who don't know a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) is a class of device the provides a means of signalling for help via satellite and provides local homing beacon functionality. The primary difference between an actual PLB and say InReach or SPOT is these are commercial services whereas the PLB operates in conjunction with cospas-sarsat . These devices can signal for greater than 24 hours providing rescuers a precision location to find you.
coastwatcher42
New member
It's a wonder Casio or Suunto don't make one already. Maybe soon. I've got a ACR PLB but would love to have one that I could carry at all times. If I could talk Uncle Sam into raising my retirement, I might be tempted to give the Breitling a try. As best as I can remember, several of the pilots and/or aircrew who attended SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) school during my years there had Breitlings and they all held up well to the training. Of course, they might not be built to the same standards now.
By the way, a friend of mine had a Spot messenger and ended up selling it on Craigslist. He bought it to track his movements in the wilderness and to send "OK" messages periodically to his wife. On his first time out with it in the Monongahela National Forest, he couldn't get it to lock onto a satellite. He managed to get it to lock on during his second trip to the Great Smoky Mountains, but the trip was over and he was already home before any of the messages were recieved.
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