What does "Light Weight" mean?/
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locrwln
Expedition Leader
Exactly. I was excited and very interested in Mark's build right up until he posted his weight and saw the 2600lb weight. Kenny I think hit the nail on the head. We haven't reached a point where the "miracle" material is available and so far, everyone's solution seems to come pretty close when it's all said and done.
Like others, I am interested in a chassis mount because I think that offers the most advantages. I have talked with Kenny and he is still on my radar for a build. I don't have the time/skills to DIY, so I will have to have it built. I think it's an exciting time for those interested in pickup based expedition vehicles.
Jack
The Artisan
Adventurer
Maybe I need to make a small low profile 500lb hardside lift roof truck camper proto...
Kevin
Kevin
rruff
Explorer
Foamie construction, XPS faced with canvas and Titebond composite skins (poor man's fiberglass or PMF), would be more sensible for a truck camper, I think. http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=64361
I made some samples and was not real impressed. It is very light and cheap, and can last a long time for some people, but I doubt it is durable enough to stand up to rocks, brush, trees, and general abuse.
bahncamperworks
Supporting Sponsor: Bahn Camper Works
I agree entirely that the shell can only be so light. If you take away the shell weight completely from the total weight of a fully equipped camper many are still way past gvwr of the trucks carrying them. Our shell weighs 500lbs for a 9' floor before we insulate, add windows, door hardware, exterior lighting, and the t-slot framing that we mount our cabinetry to. Once all of that is added we are at the 700lb mark. The r-value is close to R-12. Our campers are certainly among the most expensive out there but we are also the only ones that built the shell in one piece with no seams all under vacuum with foam core sandwich construction- not balsa. The foam core we use is a structural pvc foam (diab). I just took a 3000 mile trip with our camper, fully loaded with my wife, kids (2), dog, all of our ski gear, xmas gifts for everyone, water, lpg, food, full tank of diesel and we weighed in at 10800- almost 2000lbs under my gvwr. No mods to the truck at all. We have gone to great lengths to build a shell that is very high quality and happens to be light weight as well. We have also put a lot of energy into building the lightest cabinets out there- coming in at about a 1/3rd of what high end plywood cabinets weigh. Sadly on our prototype the batteries and a full tank of water weighed the same as our shell- and that's before any plumbing or faucets.
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Clutch
<---Pass
In the RV world, most want to be comfortable....why they are built the way they are. It all depends on your comfort level, want light weight and cheap...you're going to have to give up on comfort. Could just go with a a high rise topper with sleeping platforms...do you really need to stand up in it? If you do...find a used Flip Pac or shell out nearly $10K for a AT Habitat, and buy a good sleeping bag or follow the good weather.
You don't have to spend $40K on a camper. I have $700 into my Wildernest, and it weighs 250lbs. Ticks off a lot for me....cheap, light, compact, comfortable enough, able to stand up in it., and can get waaaay off the beaten path with it. Doesn't fair too well in extreme cold, and I am looking for solutions. Have been looking at composites, but as others have said...they cost too much...rather spend my money on actual travel...than where I sleep. Think that solution is a small 5X8 (or 10) enclosed trailer...then insulated it well. It will be cheap, lightweight, easy to tow.
Getting out and exploring is more important to me, than what the vehicle is.
Sure you cab spend $40K on a shop too...all depends what your hobbies are, problem with a shop is...it doesn't travel very well.
Was hoping someone would start building Quick-Up campers...I really like that design. I like compact and stealth.
http://www.quickupcamper.com/
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After 2 Northstar 650 campers, I think I might be going back to a Camper similar to my old uhaul box / Callen style and a small enclosed trailer. It seems like too much stuff to put on a truck. I think I would rather have 1,000# on the truck and 1,000-1,500# of trailer to even the load and keep the weight down lower.The camper would have the bed, clothes storage, maybe a heater. The trailer could have porta potti, shower set up, water storage, small generator, tools, recovery gear, etc and the ability to bring the dirt bike, bicycles, kayaks,etc.
rruff
Explorer
I like that design also. I'd be amazed if it really ended up at $12k equipped. And it looks like they haven't gone past the single prototype phase. Carbon skin? That's a waste.
One thing they mention about the "real" economy being too weak has some truth to it. Real economy meaning the target of their market. Growth is in the "old people with $$$" sector, not the young and median class. You see that in cars and houses also. The new stuff is getting more fancy and expensive, while younger and poorer people generally make do with used and fixer uppers.
ersatzknarf
lost, but making time
Maybe I need to make a small low profile 500lb hardside lift roof truck camper proto...
Kevin
Yes, please ! ;-)
The Artisan
Adventurer
Will put it on the list. When I first started my design the whole thought process was "step above a tent". A well insulated box with room for 2,Through the wall AC/Heat, kitchen, fridge, shared sink, microwave, shower/toilet area and storage. I think I accomplished that thus far. Most Tents don't have a fold out 40" plasma but I managed to fit one in...
Kevin
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ersatzknarf
lost, but making time
Thank you ! ! ! :sombrero:
Have been looking down the road for a way to attach something such as that to the back of the Land Rover (frame mount - w/access to cab), so as to be able to keep it and be able to winter camp comfortably. There are two of us and two small dogs and no need for a microwave or TV ;-)
Would love to DIY, but doubt there will ever be time for that much fun
Have been looking down the road for a way to attach something such as that to the back of the Land Rover (frame mount - w/access to cab), so as to be able to keep it and be able to winter camp comfortably. There are two of us and two small dogs and no need for a microwave or TV ;-)
Would love to DIY, but doubt there will ever be time for that much fun
The Artisan
Adventurer
Could do that with my box interior would need to be reconfigured and shorter.
Kevin
Kevin
Clutch
<---Pass
I keep on looking at all the truck campers, they are nice and all... it can snow ball real quick...big camper, means you need a big truck to haul it. Seems like most of my reading guys are really pushing the limits of payload...or are well over it. Trying squeeze in all the comforts of home...I dunno, the more I think about it...the whole point of getting into the back country is to get away from all of that. Better off just keeping it simple. Saves a hell of a lot of money too. Can't get those campers too far off the beaten path either. I can squeeze my Tacoma with a Wildernest in to some awfully tight spots. Not a very good winter camper, that is where a small trailer comes into play....can't venture too far offroad in snow country anyways...so just insulate a little trailer and use that during the winter months...for cheap too
The trailer section in here, has a lot of great cheap ideas. Most can be pulled with a Jeep, midsize or half ton truck.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...enclosed-cargo-trailer-aka-quot-El-Burro-quot
http://www.fourwheeler.com/features...k-unlimited-rubicon-and-trailer/photo-02.html
http://georgiaoffroad.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52228
That website hasn't been updated for awhile, the current economy might be able to support it, AT seems to doing well with their Habitat...those are an easy $10K when everything is said and done. With no amenities either. I like that the Quick Up is a hardsided...no tent to deal with, and packs really small. Believe Jay Baldwin the creator behind it is missing the mark on what truck to put it on, he is dead set on fullsize with an 8' bed...which those are all about dead. Maybe why no one has bought the design from him. Though I can see that on RCLB EcoDiesel. Great fuel economy and rather boring to looking look at, awesome!
You're right...most of the RV market is focused at retired people...baby boomers are now hitting that age. They want comfort...well over tent camping. Market is pretty slim for the cheap dirt bags who want it all for nothing.
Light weight campers do exist, people just need to know what they're willing to sacrifice to get one.
While the choices aren't many, they are out there.
Hardside, I would do an insulated Callen. Aren't exactly "light". but a lot lighter than a typical hardside slide-in. Now only if an aluminum frame was available, could get the weight down even more.
http://turtleexpedition.com/vehicles/the-turtle-ii/
Not exactly cheap, but pretty light in the neighborhood of 300 lbs....(still cheaper than most shell models ATC or FWC) a Space Cap/Dura Shell would work too, would search the used market for one of those. Even if you have to buy new at $5400..not too bad. Think I would have to cut some windows in, so it doesn't feel like a coffin.
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/conversion-details/living-an-adventure-in-a-toyota-tacoma-camper/
Popups: AT Habitat for new. Used would look for a Flip Pac or Wildernest, which can found at reasonable prices.
Those or a little enclosed trailer...or even do both to spread the load as Uhauler was saying.
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Mundo4x4Casa
West slope, N. Ser. Nev.
What does lightweight really mean? The simple answer to the OP is, "nothing". The term light weight has been so overused as both a sales ploy and propaganda to sell units that it means absolutely nothing. Why? Too many variables. One man's light is another man's too heavy. The OP asked a simple yet complex question about what "is" "is". It devolved into a much more interesting set of posts about materials, construction methods, and size, so dear to each poster. This thread does highlight our ever expanding quest for unobtanium: reaching closer and closer to lightweight nirvana.
It boils down to what you can live with: where you draw the line between features and lack of features. You want to be comfortable on more than a 72 degree day in May? If the answer is yes, you will pay for it with extra features and extra weight. Our 1842 pound wet, upgraded Lance has enough features that keep us relative comfort for 3.5 seasons. Only the lack of sub zero insulation; a basement, and heated tanks keep the harshest winter out of reach, if traveling for a considerable length of time. But, then again those features add weight. If you are young enough, a silver tarp bungied over the back of your pickup will keep you dry and somewhat warm for a while, but at what cost? I remember doing the Mojave Road and camping in a snow storm at one of the higher 3K foot passes. I had only my truck with a fiberglass tonau cover under which I bivouacked for the night. The woe was there was not enough vertical clearance to turn my body over at the shoulders. I put a chains installing 4" 2x4 between the back of the cover and the tailgate that gave me just enough room to turn. Was that fun? Not for someone 65 years old. But it was lightweight. That's why the user's age has a lot to do with what lightweight really means to you. Decades ago, traveling on my Triumph Daytona 500 motorcycle with a sleeping bag on the back was the ticket. Lightweight enough?
jefe
It boils down to what you can live with: where you draw the line between features and lack of features. You want to be comfortable on more than a 72 degree day in May? If the answer is yes, you will pay for it with extra features and extra weight. Our 1842 pound wet, upgraded Lance has enough features that keep us relative comfort for 3.5 seasons. Only the lack of sub zero insulation; a basement, and heated tanks keep the harshest winter out of reach, if traveling for a considerable length of time. But, then again those features add weight. If you are young enough, a silver tarp bungied over the back of your pickup will keep you dry and somewhat warm for a while, but at what cost? I remember doing the Mojave Road and camping in a snow storm at one of the higher 3K foot passes. I had only my truck with a fiberglass tonau cover under which I bivouacked for the night. The woe was there was not enough vertical clearance to turn my body over at the shoulders. I put a chains installing 4" 2x4 between the back of the cover and the tailgate that gave me just enough room to turn. Was that fun? Not for someone 65 years old. But it was lightweight. That's why the user's age has a lot to do with what lightweight really means to you. Decades ago, traveling on my Triumph Daytona 500 motorcycle with a sleeping bag on the back was the ticket. Lightweight enough?
jefe
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