What multi axis hitch do you prefer?

[TheMike]

I destroyed my LnR. In the middle of nowhere I might say. Fortunately, my buddy had just enough signal to call the great people at AT.

At the time the Max Coupler wasn't totally finished for release AT overnighted me another LnR so I could complete the a trip. Not too long after I got home (without further incident) I ended up ordering a new Max Coupler. The new overnighted LnR became the "trail spare".

Now, if you have both the LnR and the Max Coupler in your hands, right off you will notice one thing....the Max Coupler is nowhere near the physical weight and quantity (read that carefully) of metal as the LnR is. With destroying what I would consider a perfect "built like a tank" accessory to go with the Chaser (the LnR), having something in hand that felt half the LnR wasn't instilling a great feeling. Because of how I am I couldn't hold back that feeling from the guys at AT. I was honestly nervous as to its trail worthiness with a fully loaded trailer on less than desirable trails using the Max Coupler.

"You'll like it and have no problems" Martyn told me with perfect conviction.

About a year later after I destroyed the LnR I repeated the trip but with the Max Coupler linking my now 425HP Hemi JK pulling the same heavily loaded Chaser.

I am pleased to say I had ZERO problems no matter the condition I got myself in with the trailer in tow. I would have to sumize that having the extreme pulling power yanking on the coupler in the same conditions I destroyed the LnR in means I can, as the folks at AT do, with zero hesitation and perfect conviction, say you will have ZERO problems and LOVE the Max Coupler.

Perfectly designed! Simple to use! Strong! Limitless motion! Perfect for what we need them for!

There, I said it!

I have two MINOR negative criticisms:

1) If the coupler is installed into the trailer end, at least with mine, I can not get a grease gun over the zerk fitting. It's too close to the trailer frame. Not a problem whatsoever if the coupler is just installed with a normal hitch pin. But from what I have seen, I am not the only one that installs this into the trailer with a locking silent hitch pin. With that installed it takes a bit more work to grease up. Like I said, a MINOR thing.

2) The Max Coupler requires a little more precision linking the two (trailer and tow rig) together. Unlike the LnR, there is NO slack as to how the pin goes into the tow rig bushing end. Again, normal use not an issue. I found myself in less than flat conditions, not paved or smooth camping surfaces, and wanting to disconnect the trailer from the JK. This can take some time to a) get just the right amount of weight off the hitch pin while trying to get no pull from the tow rig in order to pull the pin out of the tow bushing and b) be twice as hard getting everything to line back up just right to get the pin back in. Like I said, a MINOR thing.

Other that those two things this this is dead nuts perfect for us trailer folk.

Don't even look at the LnR. Honestly. For those that think it's awesome just you wait until you need to talk to someone at LnR for some kind of customer service. Just try!

If someone wants a complete LnR with like no use, let me know. A good price (EDIT: SOLD). No matter the price though, it's not worth saving the penny's to get something less that the Max Coupler.

Woa, I just fell off my box. That's gonna take time to heal!

 

[TheMike]

Blatantly stolen from somewhere, likely a trip report here. To be fair, this is the only failure that I am aware of. That makes it a statistical anomaly.

That's mine I spoke above in the previous post.

 

[jeeepguy]

How is yours for noise?
Some say theirs bangs around a lot, others say theirs makes no noise at all. I'd like to know what the difference(s) are.

Both the LnR and the Max have design features that I'm not found of, so neither is a consideration for me.

Mine has virtually no banging. Original M416 pintle and a parrot beak. My buddies makes a tiny bit of noise but nothing major at all.

And I agree with your assessment of all the other hookups. Pintles are bulletproof... thats why the military and heavy construction uses them exclusively.

 

[jeeepguy]

I will have to say this...

anyone that thinks a lunette/pintle combo could be superior to a Max Coupler...
has never really wheeled their trailer on a moderate trail, nor have they used or seen a Max Coupler in action.
Or likely... they just can't justify the price of admission for their intended use.

So the Rubicon, the Dakota Challenge and Tellico would be considered less than moderate trails? :coffeedrink:

And I'll refer to this: Jeep Jump

 

[ntsqd]

Mine has virtually no banging. Original M416 pintle and a parrot beak. My buddies makes a tiny bit of noise but nothing major at all.

And I agree with your assessment of all the other hookups. Pintles are bulletproof... thats why the military and heavy construction uses them exclusively.

Don't get me wrong, I think that either of those designs has features that make them superior to a pintle/lunette in a couple ways. I just do not like the potential failure modes inherent in their designs or the forces/leverages incurred by some of their design details. The strength of the pintle/lunette design will be hard to exceed, but I question if that is really necessary for trailers in this size range. The noise potential with the pintle/lunette is large and short of trying different combos (expensive) to find a pair that aren't noisy I do not see a simple solution.

There is nothing so good that it can not be improved or replaced by a superior design. Where to stop as "this is good enough" is an individual decision.

Is there a standard (SAE article, ASTM std., etc.) for pintles and lunettes? Where might I find such a thing if it does exist?

 

[jeeepguy]

Don't get me wrong, I think that either of those designs has features that make them superior to a pintle/lunette in a couple ways. I just do not like the potential failure modes inherent in their designs or the forces/leverages incurred by some of their design details. The strength of the pintle/lunette design will be hard to exceed, but I question if that is really necessary for trailers in this size range.

Agree with you, both on the design point and the noise point. Is it necessary? Probably not. But it isn't necessary to have built rigs to travel most places either. We do it because we want RELIABILITY and the pintle system provides that. As I said before, find me a broken pintle that wasn't some catastrophic event rather than typical use. IMO, from there on, its a matter of the compromises you are willing to live with. You know my answer to that... :sombrero:

The noise potential with the pintle/lunette is large and short of trying different combos (expensive) to find a pair that aren't noisy I do not see a simple solution.

For me, the noise potential is a non-issue. Its the least of my concerns or less. Failure (or the lack thereof), on the other hand, is at the top of the list. My lunette/hook combo works great with little noise and other issues.

There is nothing so good that it can not be improved or replaced by a superior design. Where to stop as "this is good enough" is an individual decision.

Also agree... but IMO that improvement doesn't exist right now. Any "improvements" that exist currently are marginal and in areas I'm not concerned in (ala noise).

Is there a standard (SAE article, ASTM std., etc.) for pintles and lunettes? Where might I find such a thing if it does exist?

There is a MilSpec I am aware of (looking for it). I'll post it if I can remember where it is.

Having been in the Corps, I've come to realize that the majority of things the military uses are good enough for me and that the civilian items that try to supplant them are usually a compromise in reliability in order to augment creature comfort or reach a price point. The first doesn't matter much to me as the military way is good enough and the second only comes into play if surplus isn't an option. :sombrero:

 

[Borrego60]

Granted the Mojave Rd is not like the rubicon but after 228 miles off road the Max Coupler is still tight with no play and I am very happy with the hitch.

 

[ntsqd]

A broken hitch is obviously unacceptable, but a noisy one is just as unacceptable to me. I do not believe that one must endure the noise (if it exists) just to have an unbreakable hitch. I do not like short length, single-pass welds in tension, or what I perceive to be marginally thin cross sections under any sort of loading.

 

[cnynrat]

I completely understand the desire for reliability and a hitch that can stand up to your use. If the ultimate in simplicity and reliability is a higher priority than a quiet hitch, than a pintle is probably the right choice for your application.

I think it may be useful information to people trying to make a hitch decision to note that the hitch pictured below was used to tow my trailer 55+ miles on the dirt, including through the obstacle where I believe the damage happened, and then 550 miles home on the highway. During that time I didn't notice anything unusual about how the trailer handled. My point is that this particular failure mode is not catastrophic for the Lock-n-Roll hitch.

The hitch was already damaged at this point:

I had no problem with the trailer articulating through this obstacle (admittedly not really challenging). I thought that was pretty remarkable considering the state of the hitch.

 

[Squatchout]

I'm with jeepguy. I've driven my m416 behind quite a few vehicles over the last 20+ years. More working off road than playing. It's carried a whole lotta firewood over the years. Way overloaded most of the time. I'm still very happy with my pintle and lunette. Simple, strong, pretty quiet when well matched and lubed, easy to hitch up, easy to lock both on the truck or off with a chain. Price is right and if you ever wear one out I want to see it. Maybe not for everyone but I sure like mine.

 

[Martyn]

My experience with couplers has been that most people think the one they are using is best. No real way of convincing them otherwise, unless you lend them a different one to try.

It's much the same way with coolers and fridges. People with coolers say they would never switch to a fridge............ until you give then an ice cream in the middle of Death Valley in August.

 

[Squatchout]

My experience with couplers has been that most people think the one they are using is best. No real way of convincing them otherwise, unless you lend them a different one to try.

It's much the same way with coolers and fridges. People with coolers say they would never switch to a fridge............ until you give then an ice cream in the middle of Death Valley in August.

Good point that goes for many things. Maybe if I was doing a multi day/week cross desert trip with a loaded trailer in rough terrain I might want a newer high tech hitch. I don't get much chance to do that. What I have works very well for what I use it for. I have no NEED to upgrade or change. Nor do I have the cash to fix what isn't broken. I have 3 trailers. M416 and 2 boat trailers. Changing all would take some cash and I can't justify it without a clear need.

For simplicities sake I found a long time ago that having everything set up the same is very prectical. Different ball sizes and and hitches can be a pain and can result in unsafe mistakes. I've seen many people having issues on a trip because the grabbed the wrong item in a rush. "hey does anyone have one of these? I grabbed the such and such for my other trailer and I don't have the right one with me". Many have seen boat trailers come loose because somebody put a 2" hitch on a 1 7/8" ball.

That being said if you are starting from scratch or have had issues with your existing equipment then it makes more sense to try a different product. Often it's a fine line between needs and wants. I'm a firm believer in "it's YOUR money spend it the way you like".

The original question is what do you prefer? I prefer the P + L.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: Heh Heh, yea it's all relative-

I've gotten the different types over the years and have 2" hitchs
on both the jeep and trailer, allows me to use the ball/hitch, Pintle/Lunette and the L & R and I always carry the spares with me should the L & R crap out --

:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO

 

[jeeepguy]

My experience with couplers has been that most people think the one they are using is best. No real way of convincing them otherwise, unless you lend them a different one to try.

It's much the same way with coolers and fridges. People with coolers say they would never switch to a fridge............ until you give then an ice cream in the middle of Death Valley in August.

Although I agree with your point about peoples way of thinking, I disagree with your analogy. Neither a cooler nor a fridge is a vital component that you can't do without if it fails. They augment your "comfort", nothing more. Is one "better" than the other? Depends on your train of thought.

But a failed hitch is as bad or (for some) worse than a broken axle. I believe that one of the primary points in "building" an expedition rig is getting somewhere and back with the least possible problems. If you had the choice and the cost differential was negligible, why wouldn't you go with the more reliable item, other than creature comfort? And thats the key to this. Are any of the other couplers "better" than a P/L setup? I would argue that the answer is no and go so far as to say they are not even as good. The ONLY "better" thing about them is what has been brought up here... abatement of "noise". And with a well set up P/L, even that is minor at best.

The price difference between a cooler and a fridge is significant and the failure modes are substantially different.

Apples and oranges.

 

[ntsqd]

I don't think many people give noise enough thought. Over a long trip noise is very wearing mentally. It need not be very loud to have this effect. My rough analogy would be a dripping water faucet while you're trying to sleep. I do not think that one should have to sacrifice noise for robustness, nor do I think that one should have to sacrifice robustness for quiet.

What I want to know is not how to make a pintle/lunnete system quiet. I want to know how to buy them quiet the first time. I don't see much in the way of "this lunette is for this/these pintles only." For the lack of given info it would seem that any pintle will work with any lunette. I know that is far from the real case, but where are the guidelines? Where are the standards? What is the selection criteria? In searching SAE papers for standards on lunette/pintle couplers I found nothing specific to them and only a couple references or papers that included them along with ball couplers.

The other couplers solve this dilemma handily.