Which Winch ?
- Thread starter Icewalker
- Start date
michaelgroves
Explorer
Icewalker said:
Sadly, not! I had a hydraulic winch on my expedition Defender, but even I'd be tempted by that beast of an electric one! Mind you, one has to wonder what current it draws at full load???
Pics of my vehicle (sold now, to another adventurer) at http://www.expeditionoverland.com.
Rgds,
Michael...
Scott Brady
Founder
michaelgroves said:
Yes, very interesting... Thanks for posting that. :clapsmile
Robthebrit
Explorer
michaelgroves said:What do you think is more likely: a standard industrial hydraulic line bursting, or a winch toasting your wiring/battery/alternator?
Thats a hard question to answer, in general it depends on usage/ duty cycle and hydrualic will always win on a long pull but thats already been talked about. It also depends on the size of the truck, an electric winch for my truck is not practical and while Warn make an 18000 pound eletric winch the electrical requirements are insane. So for me hydraulic is the only reliable optrion.
Now lets consider just components: For the hydraulic system it depends on the type of hose used and the routing of that hose. For the electric system it depends on the size of the wire and the battery/alternator capacity.
For example the low pressure hydraulic hose on my mog is 100R2, its fairly brutal stuff and it has a wear sleeve, you have to cut 100R2 on a metal cutting chop saw!. All my high pressure lines are metal and then from the quick connects to the winch is high pressure wire bound (multi wire) hose. In this scenario the hydrualic is orders of magnitude more reliable especially for big and long pulls.
If you are looking at a do it yourself install on a power steering system with the rubbish components that come with a mile marker hydraulic winch then eletric is probably more reliable. But these winches have an advantage in some ways because they can be driven by an electric hydraulic pack should the engine fail. This is not an option for bigger trucks.
There is a potential common failure point to both systems but failure is more of a problem to the hydraulic system - the belt that drives the pump. Most small hydraluc systems are belt driven and that belt needs to be good, some bigger systems are crank or pto driven and are far more reliable but you are unlikely to come across them on a truck used for expeditions. You have the same problem with electric but even if the belt breaks you still have some reserve battery for a short pull.
Modern vehicles with serpentine belts should not put the load of a hydrualic winch on that belt, serp belts do not like to slip and hydraulic belt failures are quite common. If you are going to break a belt you want to break the hydraulic pump belt and not the main serpentine. Power steering pumps are driven by the serp. belt so mile marker type winches break this cardinal rule.
If you go the hydraulic route with quick connects then remember if you are going to travel to use metric connections, yes they are difficult to find in the US but the US is the only country in the world that commonly uses none-metric fittings for hydraulics. If you have to replace a hose you'll need a new connector and you'll have a hell of a time finding the US version even in europe.
Hope that helps a little..
Rob
Has anyone considered T-max winches?
http://www.t-maxwinches.com/
pretty reasonable prices here:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_755480_-1
I am considering this myself and any input would be greatly appreciated!
Barrypt5
http://www.t-maxwinches.com/
pretty reasonable prices here:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_755480_-1
I am considering this myself and any input would be greatly appreciated!
Barrypt5
Lost Canadian
Expedition Leader
I was on the fence about whether to get a T-max 9000 or another Warn M8000. Looking at the T-max it is very comparable to the Warn and I thought the T-wax was a good deal at $599 but then I saw that Quadratec was selling the Warn M8000 for $529 and Winch Depot had it for $549 with free shipping and a free reciever hitch.:yikes: After I saw that my mind was made up, a Warn M8000 it is, there was no way I could pass up on either one of those deals. If you can get a proven reliable winch like the M8000 for cheaper then the T-max well... Nothing wrong with the T-max it's a pretty good piece and it's very comparable to the Warn, but Warn is the proven leader and if you can get a Warn for cheaper then the T-max then hey....barrypt5 said:
michaelgroves
Explorer
Robthebrit said:
One thing you must remember about these winches is that by the standard of hydraulic equipment, they are very low-load. The "rubbish" that Milemarker provide in the way of hoses are just standard hydraulic hoses - nothing special, but far over-spec for the pressure and working conditions of a piddly little pump and winch-motor. Similarly, the pump (dedicated or piggy-back off the PS pump) draws a tiny horsepower. Certainly not enough to break a v-belt,or even be noticed by a serpentine. When operating the winch, the engine is at idle, and there is scarcely a change in revs as the load varies, even up to the maximum line load of 4-5 tons.
Of course, things do break - maybe the belt is misaligned, or incorrectly tensioned, or just plain old. But I would stand by my view that hydraulics are generally an order of magnitude more reliable than electrics, and when they do go wrong, they are more often quickly fixed, and do no "collateral" damage. On the other hand, a bad electrical connection, or a short, or even just a bad earth, can fry just about everything (especially in more modern electronic trucks), or start a fire.
I concede that am partisan. I like hydraulics partly because they are better in general and so they appeal to me in principle. But mainly because in practice, I have found them to be much more dependable. I have had several electric winches myself, and seen/been party to the use of many many more. What I can't avoid noticing is the number of times electric winches have either simply not worked at all when they are called upon (most often due to having been submerged sometime in the past), or burnt out during the recovery. On the occasions then they do work, it always seems that they are on their last legs - lots of groaning and smoking and revving of engines and ozone smells.
This is in contrast to my experience of engine-driven winches (PTO, PTO-hydraulic, or PS-pump-hydraulic), which just seem to work competently (if somewhat boringly) under all conditions, providing the engine runs. I have had two Milemarkers myself, the first bought with trepidation, the second with enthusiasm. (Sadly, both required money also!).
So, unlike the writers of this article, I have nailed my colours to the mast!
Michael
michaelgroves
Explorer
Icewalker said:
Thanks, Jeff. As you can imagine it was not easy to part with her. But my bank manager is a persuasive man!
navara-au
Observer
Here is a link to a product review of several winches available in Oz
Maybe worth a read if you plan on buying one.
BTW still waiting for the next article.
http://autumn2006.4wheelingoz.com/au06 WHICH WINCH Tech by Andrew Hiscock.htm
Maybe worth a read if you plan on buying one.
BTW still waiting for the next article.
http://autumn2006.4wheelingoz.com/au06 WHICH WINCH Tech by Andrew Hiscock.htm