Why do folks say, "Jeeps aren't expedition vehicles?"

[OverlandZJ]

Kewl. The first Jeep is a Ford.

The first "Jeep" was a Bantam, built by Carl Probst.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

Sorry, but you could hardly call the servicemen's advice a fact... they were there for 2-3 years tops, 25-50 years ago. Alot of vehicles have been roaming since. On top of that, of course they thought the Jeep was the best vehicle of choice, it was the only choice they had. Much like the Hummer nowadays.., no choce. Land Cruisers & Patrols are used by military services all over the world, the Hi-Lux Toyota truck is used even by our own military in the middle east. It would be impossible for one to quantitatively name the "most outback driven" 4x4 but I would have to put my money on a Land Rover before a Jeep?

To boot how can one honestly even compare a Jeep of the WWII vintage to a modern Jeep... apples and oranges, about the only thing that stuck is a name and a seven slat grill. I've got alot of respect for Jeeps, spent countless hours on the trails with them. As with any vehicle they are only as good as their owners desire to make them. Their latest JK offerings have really been a home-run IMO, a really neat base for any style of build IMO.

Again, I think everyone needs to quit worrying about the definition others give your choice of vehicle and use the things as you see fit. I could care less what people think of my rig... I could care less what others choose. I might toss in some friendly ribbing or experiences I've had with a model or two, but in the end I'll hit the road with anyone that has a sound, reliable rig and more often than not that is Jeeps.

Kurt, I am stunned you could even belch that out of your mouth.

Cannot call a servceman's time (its NOT advice) a fact...hey man, clear the smoke from the crack pipe. Jeeps from WWII thru Vietnam and that is nothing, give me a brake.

The soldiers were only 'over there' for a couple of years, maybe 3 tops! DON'T ever tell that any WWII vet, EVER. My Daddy left the day after Pearl Harbor and did not get back till '45, almost '46, spent less than a year in the US and was shipped off to Germany till the Korean War started. They were sent there for the DURATION.

Not saying the Jeep is the end all be all, there are plenty of good and great rigs out there, but other than the Jeep none of them "won a war" General Esinhower.

I see you drive a Toyota. I wonder where Toyota got the plans and rights to build one of the best rigs out there? Motor and the rest...I wonder?????

If by some chance you decide you want to know then ask some old tired veteran, POLITELY about how he pushed that Jeep across Europe, Asia, every island in the Pacfic, Korea and Vietnam for months and years that those Jeeps NEVER saw a road of any kind let alone paved.

I may have to swing by your place in Utah next time I am up that way, wish I had know, I just got back from Moab. This OLD soldier might need some of that gear you sell:clapsmile

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Kurt, I am stunned you could even belch that out of your mouth.

Cannot call a servceman's time (its NOT advice) a fact...hey man, clear the smoke from the crack pipe. Jeeps from WWII thru Vietnam and that is nothing, give me a brake.

Slow down there pal. Did I ever say it was "nothing", do yourself a favor and down put words in my mouth. I didn't put them in yours. What I did say is those periods of heavy Jeep use are pretty small in comparison to the day-day motorized activities that have been happening all over the world for the last 70 years. Contrast that to the shear population growth and auto ownership in many regions of the world and the happenings of the 40's and 60's are pretty minor in the "big picture".

The soldiers were only 'over there' for a couple of years, maybe 3 tops! DON'T ever tell that any WWII vet, EVER. My Daddy left the day after Pearl Harbor and did not get back till '45, almost '46, spent less than a year in the US and was shipped off to Germany till the Korean War started. They were sent there for the DURATION.

Pearl Harbor til' the end of the of 45' was 4 years. Regardless that wasn't my line of thinking, my point is the average serviceman didn't spend his/her entire time in one local, and even by your own admission didn't see a particular area for more than 3 years. 3 years in the last 70 is a pretty hard sample to base 25 - 60 year old experiences on, thats all I'm saying

I see you drive a Toyota. I wonder where Toyota got the plans and rights to build one of the best rigs out there? Motor and the rest...I wonder?????

Not from a Daimler/Chrysler Product, and the drivetrain didn't come from a Jeep either The Toyota motor has the most similarity with a GM product, axles early GM stuff (closed kncukle Dana). Why we are even discussing this I don't know?? All I am saying is your statement and I quite "there is no other rig in the world that has got more time in the outback than a Jeep" isn't true and your justification though patriotic doesn't hold water IMO. The Jeep was chosen for criteria far and different than the needs an "expedition" vehicle would seek in most cases, does it eliminate it from said use, of course not, but don't mistake the governments decision with that one one meant to benefit future overlanders :bigbossHL:

If by some chance you decide you want to know then ask some old tired veteran, POLITELY about how he pushed that Jeep across Europe, Asia, every island in the Pacfic, Korea and Vietnam for months and years that those Jeeps NEVER saw a road of any kind let alone paved.

I've got plenty of freinds and family to ask, and I have no doubt they adore and cherish the Jeep as a great vehicle. I too thing the WWII era Jeeps are amazing beasts, simple, utilitarian, proven. That doesn't prove "there is no other rig in the world that has got more time in the outback than a Jeep.", again IMO.

On top of that, I don't care what vehicle has the most time in the outback, what difference does it make. Last weekend, next weekend and many in the future, I'll be out in the putting my time in the outback

 

[Ron B]

funny thing about the word "jeep" in the minds of those happily trapped on pavement...when I take the top off my hummer there's always someone who comes up to me and says "nice jeep." Must be the seven slot grill.

rb

 

[SavageSunJeep]

funny thing about the word "jeep" in the minds of those happily trapped on pavement...when I take the top off my hummer there's always someone who comes up to me and says "nice jeep." Must be the seven slot grill.

rb

In fact Ron you have really nailed it:

Jeep is a World ICON like Coke, Kleenex, Xerox, Asprin, McDonalds, Wal Mart

Jeep has been a major player in World War and other conflicts across the globe. When its push comes to shove and the crap is hitting the fan Jeep has been there and done its duty.

The rest of the Johnny come lately's are just wanna be's when it comes to having a pedigree and iconic recgonition (that does not make them bad or less worthy)

NOTE, as I said before, this takes nothing away from the many good and even great rigs out there, 2 of which IMO are as good as it gets, Toyota FJ series 1960 - 1984 and the Land Rover Defender series.

 

[gpwpat]

The under seat tank generally held 10 gallons. Mine does, and I believe so did the one in my old CJ2A, which had almost the same running gear as the M38 or other WWII variants, like those shown. There may have been some that held 12, but I don't think any held 15.QUOTE]

The wwii jeep had a 15 gallon gas tank. the post war jeeps had a 10 gallon tank. The military specified the 15 gallon tank. look at the picture see the recess tank about the size of a jerry can under the body. that is where the extera 5 gallons in the tank.


By the way I just finished reading" The first overland Four wheels & Frontiers" By Roy Fellos From Singapore to england.

Great read. it is about 2 chaps who outfit a wwii surpluss jeep for overland travel and in 1958 drive from Singapore to England. Quite an adventure and pretty sure it documents that a jeep can travel overland. especially one of the first overland journies across the continent.

Read it. or read the summary on jeep Freek magazine. WOW

http://jpfreek.v1.myvirtualpaper.com/adventure_magazine/2008031301/en/

 

[Brett M]

Must be the seven slot grill.

rb

Mine has 8.......damn Cherokee's

 

[Zeero]

Heres a classic use of Jeeps as Expedition Vehicles....JPFreek Magazine....check out the story "Red Rock Challenge KJ Style"....it was a feature article....thanks to Frank for publishing it!!!

http://jpfreek.com/images/magazine/issue_10.pdf

Yup thats us.....even check out the header in "Past Issues" on the JPFreek website.....those two Libertys.... were ours.

Who says Jeeps arent Expedition Vehicles.....we drove ours nearly 10,000 kms throughout Central North America.

 

[mcm4090]

Theres that "Jeeps are no good for Expeditions" attitude.

You really should look at the new Unlimited. Very comfortable for many long rides with LOADS of room for your family and gear.

To me your post only precludes to a two door TJ or YJ.....certainly by no means can that apply to the new JK Unlimiteds at all.....totally different vehicle....100% different.

I wouldn't call it an attitude.

I was explaining what I need an require from a vehicle. I have looked at the JK Unlimited and if I was in the market for a SUV I would not choose it for the lack of power. It does have more cargo room then the previous versions but not enough for my needs, nor does any other SUV have the cargo space that I am wanting. I would choose either the FJ or the xterra. I find it more important for a vehicle to fit the majority of my needs then just one aspect. Having a vehicle with a solid axle in the front would be cool but since 80% of my driving is on Highway it does not out way any of my other needs for a vehicle.

 

[Bongo Boy]

To cite the military service history of the jeep as evidence of its expeditionary suitability is about as far a stretch of logic as I can imagine. They mounted recoiless rifles and .50 cal Brownings on them, too--doesn't make them 'anti-armor assault' vehicles--it just makes them the wet dream of defense contractor marketing people.

Kurt's response was perfectly reasonable.

I love my jeep and that's an understatement. I could hardly care less about what anyone's opinion is of its suitability for any particular purpose, beyond the opinions of those who have lived and breathed 'expedition' and lived to tell about it. One has to take seriously the reasons behind their choice of other vehicles--and cargo space has got to be among them.

Build your rig to meet your requirements, and worry not about whether others take you seriously. I say, just take the real limitations of yourself and your rig seriously. Got no room for brand loyalty here.

 

[Bongo Boy]

Ask any WWII, Korean or Vietnam vet and they will tell you there is no other rig in the world that has got more time in the outback than a Jeep.

May be true, but any of those jeeps also had the longest and most sophisticated logistics tail known attached to it, too. I think it's a real stretch, and a complete error in logic, to conclude anything about the jeep's expeditionary suitability based on its military service--other than perhaps its maintenance history.

We put recoiless rifles and .50 cal Brownings in 'em, too. Doesn't mean they were great anti-armor or assault vehicles--it just means some defense contractor had a great marketing department and a wet dream to sell a 'does it all' vehicle, by the millions.

Know your requirements, and know the real limitations of yourself and your gear. No room for brand loyalty here...that's my opinion. I love my jeep and what it can do...with an intense passion. That doesn't cloud my ability to see what excursions it would be ill-suited for--I hope.

 

[Zeero]

I wouldn't call it an attitude.

I was explaining what I need an require from a vehicle. I have looked at the JK Unlimited and if I was in the market for a SUV I would not choose it for the lack of power. It does have more cargo room then the previous versions but not enough for my needs, nor does any other SUV have the cargo space that I am wanting. I would choose either the FJ or the xterra. I find it more important for a vehicle to fit the majority of my needs then just one aspect. Having a vehicle with a solid axle in the front would be cool but since 80% of my driving is on Highway it does not out way any of my other needs for a vehicle.

These JKs are not under powered.....by any means....I can't beleive this little trend is following it around......my JK, rolls good, no power complaints at all...gets up to speed on the highway without any issue.

What most people are not seeing is the fact that the JKs first 5000 km are spent adjusting to your driving needs and style. The internal system makes minor adjustments here and there to suit your driving style.

Knowing this, I was a little heavier footed in the begining with it, and now it runs just fine. I goes quick when I need it to and hauls all my gear around as well.

Dont even get me started on the gearing ratios especially in 4LO on the trail....the amount torque that expells out of this vehicle is unprecidented in stock form.....and unbeatable in an offroad capacity....in stock form.

No....I have no issues with the power, and nor should anyone else armed with this knowledge.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

To cite the military service history of the jeep as evidence of its expeditionary suitability is about as far a stretch of logic as I can imagine.

Kurt's response was perfectly reasonable.

Since Kurt was unable to, perhaps you can ENLIGHTEN us as to why not and don't give the weak 'logistics tail' arguement either.

Maybe you guys can get together and cut the 'empty suit' talk and give us some real reasons. I am open to hear anything you have to say, but i have seen this subject come up many times before and yet it has never passed the smell test.

Again, I take nothing away from the old FJ or Defenders or even a ton of Suzuki type rigs. I personally think they are all great myself and have often thought of buying one. [sidebar: Almost bought recently, when one came up for sale locally. Toyota FJ, '81, 1 owner with every factory option, never off road, 31k miles, $6500 settle the estate sale].

As a Jeep owner, builder, first, second and at times even the third car in my garage and finally as soldier who on more than one occasion owes his life to a Jeep, your challenge is formidable, but I am willing to listen.

Finally, in all the times I have encountered this discussion two things have always been abundantly clear to all. Us Jeep guys always welcome the FJ, Defender and others into our fold, but the FJ and Defender crowd always seems to have the same o, same o holier than thou attitude of superiority. Got something to say, lets hear it, if not then you won't even get the dignity of a second reply.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

[banging head in wall]

EDIT: you (and your mouse) win

My holier than now attitude of Toyota superiority wont let me argue any longer.

[/banging head in wall]

 

[BIGdaddy]

i think the "jeep is not a expedition rig" idea is Bullpucky....


my jeep LJ has taken my family there and back again enough times for me to trust it. granted the longest trip was only a week, I know that my rig could hold its own against FJ's, series and defender rovers( and i love those rigs too.)

i have no doubt that an fj40, a series III and my LJ would be bosum buddies on a trans-sierra or "up to alaska" trip.

My jeep unlimited is a direct evolution from the Jeep that started it all, and while i'm partial to my 04 unlimited, due to its lack of electric gismo's, comfy/quiet interior, and stout, simple drivetrain, I do think toyota and rover took the idea of the original jeep and improved on it, each in their own way.

in my opinion, an expo rig is simply built, easy to work on and able to adapt to any environment with tastful, well planned mods.

suzuki's, defenders, series I, II, III's, wranglers, early bronco's and scouts are VERY well suited to expo work....if you need more than can fit in these vehicles, i'd bet you haven't really travelled much and don't realize how little is needed in the "real world" of travel.

in north america, help is not usually very far off, and if you can work on your jeep, fixes can be rudimentary with what is available at the time. food can be dried, canned or vacuum packed to save on size, and with the proper gear, clothing can be kept to minimum. Water and fuel are the biggest "probem to be solved" with smaller rigs, but aux or larger than stock fuel tanks, and solid jerry can mounts abound for these rigs(keeping the rig as streamlined as possible helps, too!). Take a walk around REI and you'll see that many advances have been made in camp equipment to allow adventurers using even smaller vehicles of travel (i.e. kayaks, bikes, feet,etc) the ability to carry the essentials easily. there should be no reason save for a small budget/old bulky gear, that you need more room for stuff than a SWB rig can carry.

the bigger rigs can carry more, but heavy rigs tend to fail rather catastrophically and cost way to much $$$ for my type of budget.

i'd rather keep my rig small and nimble, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.