michaelgroves
Explorer
I agree with the last part. But why would spinning the tyres lead to breaking stuff like axle shafts? The driveline is on the "safe" side of the spinning mass of the wheel if it grabs suddenly.
Why not enhance rounder AT tires with snow chains and similar devices?
- Thread starter winkosmosis
- Start date
I agree with the last part. But why would spinning the tyres lead to breaking stuff like axle shafts? The driveline is on the "safe" side of the spinning mass of the wheel if it grabs suddenly.
w squared
Observer
Tire is spinning, which means the driveline is spinning. All of a sudden, the tire stops. Dead. Will not turn....but the mass of the driveline is still spinning, and the engine and transmission are still putting energy into it...that leads to a LOT of sudden strain on the driveline.
michaelgroves
Explorer
I guess I can sort of be on board with that argument, although I am not convinced the mass of the driveline is such a big force in the scheme of things, especially as it's dissipated through all 4 wheels. I know the torque on all 4 axle-shafts increases as soon as the wheel grabs, but they would get hugely more torque anyway, even if the wheel weren't spinning beforehand.
I think a lot of this is people imagining that, because the heavy spinning mass of the wheel has so much energy, it must pose a risk of breaking something.
I think a lot of this is people imagining that, because the heavy spinning mass of the wheel has so much energy, it must pose a risk of breaking something.
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I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
It's like using a hammer. Do you swing it to drive the nail in or to you put the head on the nail and push it in? Think shock loading...and think more than just axle shafts. Axle U joints, drive shafts, gears. They don't like shock loading. When putting power through a spinning piece of machinery and it comes to a sudden stop, there is no safe side, atleast not for long.
Timely discussion though as I was watching a piece of footage from WWII yesteday and a shot of a Jeep towing a T3 showed it was chained on all 4 wheels on the slippery tracks at Normandy.
Use chains sparingly or you'll be doing this...:Mechanic:
Timely discussion though as I was watching a piece of footage from WWII yesteday and a shot of a Jeep towing a T3 showed it was chained on all 4 wheels on the slippery tracks at Normandy.
Use chains sparingly or you'll be doing this...:Mechanic:
michaelgroves
Explorer
No, I do understand the principle!
But I just think the upstream weight of the driveline is a smaller hammer than people imagine, by comparison with the power and torque generated by the engine in general - because it doesn't include the weight of the wheel.
Snagger
Explorer
My opinion is that if mud tyres won't get you through, then unless it's a pay and play site (like a disused quary), then you shouldn't be on that track - it causes too much damage and wrecks the location and track for everyone else.
Snow chains are fine for snow and ice, obviously, and it's fair enough to carry them for mud if you get into real trouble on a muddy track and there is no alternative route and no possibility of going back the way you came, but to deliberately drive such a boggy track is wreckless and selfish. We se it all the time in the UK, where a very small minority of gung-ho idiots ruin national parks and forests and are causing the councils to close most green lanes to all traffic.
Snow chains are fine for snow and ice, obviously, and it's fair enough to carry them for mud if you get into real trouble on a muddy track and there is no alternative route and no possibility of going back the way you came, but to deliberately drive such a boggy track is wreckless and selfish. We se it all the time in the UK, where a very small minority of gung-ho idiots ruin national parks and forests and are causing the councils to close most green lanes to all traffic.
craig333
Expedition Leader
I've seen a lot of twisted, snapped driveshafts on hardcore Jeep trails. If you're lucky it'll only be the u-joint that snaps.
w squared
Observer
Yup.When you start talking about the sorts of contact patches that big modern wide MT tires can get when running single digit pressures on beadlocks, light duty drivelines can get broken easily.
The same holds true for smaller tires with chains. If they start spinning and then bite, you've got huge amount of inertia (all the kinetic energy in every moving part between the wheel and the pistons) that is running up against a stationary object. Something's got to give....and it's possible that you'll see catastrophic mechanical failure before you see forward motion of the vehicle.
skysix
Adventurer
These euro style chains always have material between tire and ground so are a lot less 'bumpy' However, speed still is an issue. Centrifugal force can make the chain in the middle of the tread rise as much as 2-3". Better have adequate clearance....
