Wilderness Acreage in Utah

[Wonderland]

Really??? I'm probably one of the biggest greenies on this site, yet I don't think I threw you under the bus in your recent request for help on finding transport in NZ. Whatevs dood.

It's getting harder and harder to enjoy the debates around here because BOTH sides getting spun up and simply talk trash. That's a bummer.

I appreciated that, that was very nice of you. You seem like a very nice guy. Geeze don't take things personally! I was generalizing. You helped me with information on NZ travel, but from some of your posts I would assume you would throw me under a bus for back country access.

My whole point was, I am not going to put up links to an area I love to recreate on, that is currently being threaten of closure. It will simply give "the other side" a "Oh, I didn't know those motorized trails existed there!? Lets help our brothers shut that area down to motorized travel also." Nah, I don't want to unravel all of our hard work, and the hard work that is ahead of us in the court system, which it is heading there very soon.

There are good honest people on both sides, and yes it is a shame it gets all lumped together. So as a whole I don't trust environmentalist, since they are trying their damnedest to close off something I and many others like me love.

 

[sinuhexavier]

I was generalizing.

Isn't that quite similar to "broad sweeping statements"?

 

[Wonderland]

Isn't that quite similar to "broad sweeping statements"?

Nah totally different!!! [sarcasm] :elkgrin:

Yea, kinda like you saying you only mostly see ATV and Side by Side tracks running amuck off trail. There I'd fixed it for ya!

(lets all point fingers!):snorkel:

 

[sinuhexavier]

I rarely see car tracks blazing off trail, most of the time it's an atv track.

Wonderland-

Rarely does not equal only...

For you to highlight "only" in your post it would seem that I were on a crusade against ATV's, I'm not. Kurt very succinctly explained why what I do and ATV's get lumped into the same category. End of story.

 

[Wonderland]

Wonderland-

Rarely does not equal only...

For you to highlight "only" in your post it would seem that I were on a crusade against ATV's, I'm not.

I personally wouldn't miss it one bit if "buggy's" "atv's" or those atv bred with a jeep weren't allowed in the areas I frequent.

Ok if you say so...

Hey, I am for equal access for all user groups, not just a select privilege few, end of story? :snorkel:

I hike, bicycle, ride horse back, dirt bike, snow board, and/or take the truck. Depending on my mood depends on what piece of equipment I grab out of the garage. All of those options of exploring the back country should be available to all people...I am sure I missed a few, oh yeah not allowed to have hand gliders in wilderness either...

Lets stop fighting each other and use our resources to maintain the land. Is that too much to ask?

 

[robert j. yates]

Really??? I'm probably one of the biggest greenies on this site, yet I don't think I threw you under the bus in your recent request for help on finding transport in NZ. Whatevs dood.

It's getting harder and harder to enjoy the debates around here because BOTH sides getting spun up and simply talk trash. That's a bummer.

Who is talking trash? What I see are 2 groups of folks. One group has direct experience in dealing with closures and remains at the forefront of the fight to preserve access to traditional motorized routes and then the other group that simply wants stuff closed. The closure-istas from what I can see here are not necessarily interested in historical use or science while concentrating on their aesthetic of what they "think" access should or should not be. I find the discussion of getting rid of atv's facinating.... It's the same thing as the wilderness for legal fee groups..... We don't like you so you shouldn't have any rights.

 

[Skylinerider]

Still no answer?

....why don't you spend a minute answering this:

How you so easily discount your impacts on trails like this? If driving on a trail that has existed for 50+ years has some level of impact in your mind, some impact that must be eliminated in order to protect this land for the future generations. How do you drive off-road anywhere and not feel your impact has the same net result albeit in a different location?

 

[Wonderland]

I'd much rather be recreating than mining copper:sombrero:

Need copper for hybrid and electric cars, of course gold would be better for the wire coils, but have you priced gold lately!?

I like this one:

 

[sami]

Discuss...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4jnx9FfSh0&feature=player_embedded

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Excellent post Jason...

That in a sense sums it up excellently. Bennett calls WSA "defacto Wilderness land" and discusses how the environmental groups are making this the tactic rather than actually approving wilderness area that is protected and protected permanently. Sometime under Utah Governor Mike Leavitt's tenure they were effectively remove Wilderness Study Area for about 1.2 million acres (from 4.7 to 3.5) because WSA can be dismissed. We only actually have one small parcel of true wilderness in Utah that is not a national forest or other designation. Bob Bennett explains these wonderfully in this clip.

 

[Ursidae69]

That was an interesting video and Bennett did a good job articulating things. Did the DOI secretary ever respond point by point?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Bennett summed it up nicely. But nothing new or revealing there. The pro-access groups have been labeling WSA tacicts as defacto-wilderness for many moons and the FPLMA process is what shaped the acreage the BLM found, roughly 1/5 that of the ARWA proposal during the first inventory.

 

[sami]

I felt it could be a good, simple explanation for those in this thread who just don't understand what's happenig here in Utah..

Though there are still unanswered questions, so maybe this clip will go uncommented on by some..

Ursidae69, I'll look around to see if the secretary has commented in response.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

That was her confirmation hearing unfortunately. This means it is in her interest to 'play stupid' because if she panders to Bennett she 'panders to the right' and if she panders to the left then she panders to environmentalists. With luck by searching c-span under her name you might come up with something...

But again Bennett's comments are excellent and that is a great clip. Nice find Jason...