Some Series Advice

[michel77]

Hello All,

First time venturing to this side of the forum, fun

So I have this itch I kinda feel like scratching. We used to have an 80-Series Land Cruiser for camping, daily driving and whatever else and loved it but ultimately decided it was too much for our needs and sold it to buy a Mitsubishi Montero Limited, 2003 vintage.. Great car, practicality is great, nice daily driver, etc. Don't think we'll get rid of that one as it fits our needs great but I do miss a bit of character and am kinda looking around for an "affordable" weekend ride and something I can wrench on.. I would like to also be able to throw a rooftop tent on and head out for a day or 2 camping somewhat remotely (forest service road stuff mostly).

I started looking at some older Series Rovers, can't beat that look! Initially I was drawn to the longer wheel base, but the 88's might have some benefits for city use and still be big enough for what we need (2 people and a dog for short camping trips). I also prefer Diesel for the better gas mileage and expect they are somewhat more reliable or durable? I'm a complete noob so these are just my perceptions..

Anyway, these 2 beauties are available in my area now, which would you go for (or neither if that may be the case) and why? I like the Series IIa with the removable top, better shape mechanically/overall (but why no sliding rear windows??) but the Series III has more patina and probably a crap load more work
Keep in mind, not a primary vehicle and I have a few months and some $$$ after purchase to get things sorted. Appreciate your thoughts, all!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4331249302.html

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4314499803.html

 

[czenkov]

No better feeling when driving a car...the Series experience.

I have a petrol 88 and can do 55mph at 20mpg(no OD). My buddy had a diesel 88 that could do 45mph (yeah you read that right) at about 20mpg. These are tractors and diesels really exemplify the tractor experience. Get a petrol w/overdrive, you will be happier. Remember diff gearing is 4.7:1.

Driving a Series is like nothing else. Think big grin on your face every time you do it.

For reference I also have a 110 w/NAD and 5 speed. It will do 60 without screaming too much - 65 and it is very busy.

From experience...LWB vs. SWB. The SWB is easier and sportier...if sportier can be used when describing a Series.

Good luck with your search.

 

[SGStriglos]

Take a look at the Rovers North for sale part of their forum. Pretty straight group of Series Guys. Personally I do not get a good feeling about ether of those. IIA is the Classic Series in my opinion and I much prefer the metal dash and the IIA has the better looking grill than a III. I decent good runner without any frills should be $3200-6k. Mine runs 65 with overdrive. I run truck cab in winter to try to keep it above freezing and no roof all summer.

 

[I Leak Oil]

Buy the best truck you can afford right up front. Rust: Frame, bulkhead, door frames, radiator panel......
That SIII looks like it might need a lot of work. Look for rust on it for sure.

The romantic side of owning and driving a series can be much different than the reality. Accept what you're getting into and you'll be fine.

 

[czenkov]

Good advice from all.

Call Ike at Pangolin4X4 he might have something interesting for you. He is out of Oregon so not too awful far from you and finds rust free Series fairly frequently. Ike can also build you what you want depending on budget.
Tell him Andrew from Utah recommended him - I bought mine from him 5 years ago. When I got it from him it was a p/u cab - now soft top and i got the hoops from him as well.

 

[LR Max]

Preface: I drive a 109 and this is my personal opinion after driving it for over 10 years. The 109 was my first car and I still drive it on a weekly basis. Also take note that I live in the southeastern part of the US in a large city (Atlanta).

No diesels unless retrofitted with a 200 or 300 TDI. Sorry but all the feel good about reliability and good mpg doesn't matter when you can't even drive it in morning traffic. I'm sorry but my 109 would be worthless to me if I couldn't take it out on the interstate. Considering my drive to work is over 50 miles a day on the interstate, I need to be able to reasonably get to 60 mph and maintain it, even up hills. I suppose if you live in a little sleepy town and never go above 35 mph, then yes a diesel would be cool. However I do not so a diesel truck would sit and never get used.

The more these trucks sit, the worse they become. Buy a driver and drive it.

The gas engine is alright. Not bulletproof as people claim, but she will do. Throw a Rochester carb in it, extend the breather tube, and put a petronix in the distributor. Put a cone filter on instead of the oil bath. And replace with a 2" exhaust. That'll wake it up and increase reliability.

Also you need to understand that with a series truck, there is always *something*. These trucks tend to rattle themselves apart and that causes all kinds of fun times. Also it doesn't matter how many times you reseal the engine, transmission, etc, its going to leak. Deal with it. If you don't have, say, 2 hours per week to maintain your series rover, you won't drive it. I don't know what your schedule is, but that is about the bare minimum from my experience.

Example: we just had a snow storm. I spent 2 hours fully checking everything and in general, tinkering with my 109. Just getting it in good shape so I wouldn't have to worry about it. Also typically before I drive it, I check the engine oil. Its done tons of weird crap to me, I gotta check it. If I fry the engine again I'm going to be pissed.

And on that note, if you were to get a diesel, the first thing you need to do is take it to a shop and get the injector pump tuned. Its like tuning a carburetor, makes all the difference in the world. Find out where all of the lawn care guys are taking their Izuzu cab overs and go there.

88's are great, especially in city driving and off road. Just having a smaller vehicle is great especially considering how crappy the turning radius is. Everyone wants a Station Wagon because you can haul more crap. On the flipside an 88 is great because now you are like, do I REALLY need this? Also you have a Land Cruiser. If you are going on a long trip, you are taking that. An 88 would be great for day trips or an overnight with +1 person. Off road the shorter trucks rule. No two ways about it. The 109 is a pig off road. It wasn't until I drove a TJ that I realized how nice it was not having a giant butt that gets stuck on trees and crap.

Oh and 109 drivers are weird and crazy. That is a cliff you jump off of and can't climb back up.

As others have said, rust is going to be your main battle. If I were looking for a series truck, I'd be looking for one that has had a chassis swap in the past 10 years.

Free wheeling hubs and overdrive help with livability.

If you have the option between repairing and upgrading, do the upgrade. Sure you spend an extra $1k on it, but when the repair dies next year anyway because its a crappy design, you've just blown that $1k to do it...again...instead of having epic awesome upgrades. I just did brakes and I wish I would've spent the extra for discs. Also on my transmission, after all that BS, I should've just dumped a R380 in there. Problem solved and I would've had basically new stuff in there.

They are ungodly uncomfortable. If you sit in the truck and your rear end goes straight to the floor, REPLACE THE SEATS. That is seriously the best thing you can do. Noise canceling headphones, just get them. Cut the crap and accept they are stupid loud. If you are old, don't get it because you won't drive it.

If you aren't handy, don't get this truck. You really need to be able to do your own work otherwise you will have a bad time and a huge tow bill. Little crap goes wrong with these trucks and you need to get your hands dirty for like, 5 minutes on the side of the road and then you are good to go.

Grainger sells nitrile gloves by the bucket and costco sells shop towels by the case. Just...do it.

Typically new series owners will have the truck for either 6 months or forever. Be prepared to walk away.

Find a local LR shop that knows something about series rovers. The problem is that anyone trying to sell a series rover will try to blow as much smoke up your skirt as possible. You could end up with a basket case truck and it has happened. $75 for an inspection may seem overkill, but when the required repair bill (probably will need brakes, wheel bearings, and steering joints, a shop might charge ~$1500 for that) then $75 doesn't seem so bad. Especially if they come back and say the chassis and bulkhead are shot. If they say that, best $75 you've ever spent.

I'm not a RHD fan. I've got a buddy how DD's a RHD. More power to him but I couldn't do it. That is something you need to decide for yourself.

Just go look at trucks and drive them. You can then decide if this is what you want.

I will say, when the temperature is about 68 degrees out, cruising through town with the door tops off with a cigar...its about right. The kids in their minivans look at you and want to be you...and so does their dad who is driving. When you pull up, everyone looks at you in your truck and they know you are having the time of your life...because you are.

If your woman/significant other (I do not know your orientation, it doesn't matter but this does) doesn't like it, you are going to have a bad time. Its really miserable because they are always like, When are we taking it to the junkyard. Its unsafe. Its noisy and gets bad gas mileage. Blah blah blah blah. Piss and moan. Piss and moan. Why don't you get a Jeep. They are cool and have a 4 star crash rating. Also they work. Blah blah blah.

Yeah, that crap stirs negative emotions and doesn't help. Anywho obviously I am not an expert in the realm of interpersonal relationships, but I do know this is a problem.

But yeah, series problems.

Good luck.

 

[sedat]

If your woman/significant other (I do not know your orientation, it doesn't matter but this does) doesn't like it, you are going to have a bad time. Its really miserable because they are always like, When are we taking it to the junkyard. Its unsafe. Its noisy and gets bad gas mileage. Blah blah blah blah. Piss and moan. Piss and moan. Why don't you get a Jeep. They are cool and have a 4 star crash rating. Also they work. Blah blah blah.

Yeah, that crap stirs negative emotions and doesn't help. Anywho obviously I am not an expert in the realm of interpersonal relationships, but I do know this is a problem.
.

This alone! I traded my s/o in before trading in my rover.
New one drives a jeep and loves my pile of leaks. Close nuff'.


E: Check So-cal for series trucks. I see em fairly regularly.

 

[michel77]

Some great, elaborate replies here. Thanks fellas!

The romantic side of owning and driving a series can be much different than the reality. Accept what you're getting into and you'll be fine.

I grinned at this, it's so true. I also own an older BMW airhead and am slowly getting a grip on the perception versus reality thing

Preface: I drive a 109 and this is my personal opinion after driving it for over 10 years. The 109 was my first car and I still drive it on a weekly basis. Also take note that I live in the southeastern part of the US in a large city (Atlanta).

No diesels unless retrofitted with a 200 or 300 TDI. Sorry but all the feel good about reliability and good mpg doesn't matter when you can't even drive it in morning traffic. I'm sorry but my 109 would be worthless to me if I couldn't take it out on the interstate. Considering my drive to work is over 50 miles a day on the interstate, I need to be able to reasonably get to 60 mph and maintain it, even up hills. I suppose if you live in a little sleepy town and never go above 35 mph, then yes a diesel would be cool. However I do not so a diesel truck would sit and never get used.

The more these trucks sit, the worse they become. Buy a driver and drive it.

The gas engine is alright. Not bulletproof as people claim, but she will do. Throw a Rochester carb in it, extend the breather tube, and put a petronix in the distributor. Put a cone filter on instead of the oil bath. And replace with a 2" exhaust. That'll wake it up and increase reliability.

Also you need to understand that with a series truck, there is always *something*. These trucks tend to rattle themselves apart and that causes all kinds of fun times. Also it doesn't matter how many times you reseal the engine, transmission, etc, its going to leak. Deal with it. If you don't have, say, 2 hours per week to maintain your series rover, you won't drive it. I don't know what your schedule is, but that is about the bare minimum from my experience.

Example: we just had a snow storm. I spent 2 hours fully checking everything and in general, tinkering with my 109. Just getting it in good shape so I wouldn't have to worry about it. Also typically before I drive it, I check the engine oil. Its done tons of weird crap to me, I gotta check it. If I fry the engine again I'm going to be pissed.

And on that note, if you were to get a diesel, the first thing you need to do is take it to a shop and get the injector pump tuned. Its like tuning a carburetor, makes all the difference in the world. Find out where all of the lawn care guys are taking their Izuzu cab overs and go there.

88's are great, especially in city driving and off road. Just having a smaller vehicle is great especially considering how crappy the turning radius is. Everyone wants a Station Wagon because you can haul more crap. On the flipside an 88 is great because now you are like, do I REALLY need this? Also you have a Land Cruiser. If you are going on a long trip, you are taking that. An 88 would be great for day trips or an overnight with +1 person. Off road the shorter trucks rule. No two ways about it. The 109 is a pig off road. It wasn't until I drove a TJ that I realized how nice it was not having a giant butt that gets stuck on trees and crap.

Oh and 109 drivers are weird and crazy. That is a cliff you jump off of and can't climb back up.

As others have said, rust is going to be your main battle. If I were looking for a series truck, I'd be looking for one that has had a chassis swap in the past 10 years.

Free wheeling hubs and overdrive help with livability.

If you have the option between repairing and upgrading, do the upgrade. Sure you spend an extra $1k on it, but when the repair dies next year anyway because its a crappy design, you've just blown that $1k to do it...again...instead of having epic awesome upgrades. I just did brakes and I wish I would've spent the extra for discs. Also on my transmission, after all that BS, I should've just dumped a R380 in there. Problem solved and I would've had basically new stuff in there.

They are ungodly uncomfortable. If you sit in the truck and your rear end goes straight to the floor, REPLACE THE SEATS. That is seriously the best thing you can do. Noise canceling headphones, just get them. Cut the crap and accept they are stupid loud. If you are old, don't get it because you won't drive it.

If you aren't handy, don't get this truck. You really need to be able to do your own work otherwise you will have a bad time and a huge tow bill. Little crap goes wrong with these trucks and you need to get your hands dirty for like, 5 minutes on the side of the road and then you are good to go.

Grainger sells nitrile gloves by the bucket and costco sells shop towels by the case. Just...do it.

Typically new series owners will have the truck for either 6 months or forever. Be prepared to walk away.

Find a local LR shop that knows something about series rovers. The problem is that anyone trying to sell a series rover will try to blow as much smoke up your skirt as possible. You could end up with a basket case truck and it has happened. $75 for an inspection may seem overkill, but when the required repair bill (probably will need brakes, wheel bearings, and steering joints, a shop might charge ~$1500 for that) then $75 doesn't seem so bad. Especially if they come back and say the chassis and bulkhead are shot. If they say that, best $75 you've ever spent.

I'm not a RHD fan. I've got a buddy how DD's a RHD. More power to him but I couldn't do it. That is something you need to decide for yourself.

Just go look at trucks and drive them. You can then decide if this is what you want.

I will say, when the temperature is about 68 degrees out, cruising through town with the door tops off with a cigar...its about right. The kids in their minivans look at you and want to be you...and so does their dad who is driving. When you pull up, everyone looks at you in your truck and they know you are having the time of your life...because you are.

If your woman/significant other (I do not know your orientation, it doesn't matter but this does) doesn't like it, you are going to have a bad time. Its really miserable because they are always like, When are we taking it to the junkyard. Its unsafe. Its noisy and gets bad gas mileage. Blah blah blah blah. Piss and moan. Piss and moan. Why don't you get a Jeep. They are cool and have a 4 star crash rating. Also they work. Blah blah blah.

Yeah, that crap stirs negative emotions and doesn't help. Anywho obviously I am not an expert in the realm of interpersonal relationships, but I do know this is a problem.

But yeah, series problems.

Good luck.

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write that out. Great info, and much appreciated! I especially like the insight of the maintenance needs. I understand full well that a 40+ year old vehicle needs maintenance to remain running and something else will always break. I am prepared for that, 2 hours a week is easy enough (i'll fit that in right after my 1 hour check-up of the old Beemer) and I do love the idea of simple mechanics. As a mechanical engineer by trade, I like simple stuff that I can work on. ECU's, fuel injection, multiple sensors that throw codes do nothing for my engineer's libido

 

[Series1Rangie]

Just a short note on the diesel aspect. If you live at or near sea level, a 2.5NA will do 65 comfortably with an OD.

What everybody else said is right on. From the SO, to the maintenance. I miss commuting in my series, but I don't miss the lookon her face when I say I want to take the rover, not the Subaru.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

[JSBriggs]

Go talk with Gord'n at Lamorna Garage 1142 NW 50th St, Seattle, WA 98107 (206) 361-7002 He can give you an honest assessment of either of those, and right in the neighborhood. Good guy, very knowledgeable, knows his stuff.

-Jeff

 

[michel77]

Just a short note on the diesel aspect. If you live at or near sea level, a 2.5NA will do 65 comfortably with an OD.

What everybody else said is right on. From the SO, to the maintenance. I miss commuting in my series, but I don't miss the lookon her face when I say I want to take the rover, not the Subaru.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

Thanks for the diesel tip, Im thinking maybe finding one and retro-fitting a 200tdi may be somethig to consider as well, I'd be reasonably comfortable taking that on.. As for the SO, I guess I'm lucky since she's been cool with my shenanigans thus far

Go talk with Gord'n at Lamorna Garage 1142 NW 50th St, Seattle, WA 98107 (206) 361-7002 He can give you an honest assessment of either of those, and right in the neighborhood. Good guy, very knowledgeable, knows his stuff.

-Jeff

Hey, thanks for the reference! I just stopped by Lamorna on Friday to check out the rigs parked on 14th, think they are all customer rides. Will give him a shout one of these days for some info.

 

[roverandom]

A Series 3 will have a synchromesh gearbox and the later ones have five bearing engines.
Try for petrol, not diesel unless you like the novelty.
A 88"is hard to park, a 109" is harder.
If you like tinkering, buy a unit that has already been restored. If you want to modify then you might as well just buy a basket case because you will end up "upgrading" almost all of it anyway.

Old Land Rovers. Coolest things on four wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mack73]

Hey, thanks for the reference! I just stopped by Lamorna on Friday to check out the rigs parked on 14th, think they are all customer rides. Will give him a shout one of these days for some info.

I do enjoy driving that block from time to time - always some nice rigs to look at.

 

[slcrover]

Good advice from all.

Call Ike at Pangolin4X4 he might have something interesting for you. He is out of Oregon so not too awful far from you and finds rust free Series fairly frequently. Ike can also build you what you want depending on budget.
Tell him Andrew from Utah recommended him - I bought mine from him 5 years ago. When I got it from him it was a p/u cab - now soft top and i got the hoops from him as well.

View attachment 211709

I agree, Talk to Ike.. He can find just about anything you're looking for. As for which length, I'd recommend an 88.. Especially a IIA because it has a really good blend of creature comforts (relatively) and when they're put together right they are amazing to drive. The 2.25 is a great motor if you don't mind enjoying the scenery. Granted this is all coming from a series 1 owner, so anything from series II on feels like a cadillac.

 

[LR Max]

My 109 with a power steering conversion is a dream to drive since I can actually turn. Quite nice when things get tight.

Today it was 60F on the way to work. I had the door tops on, but windows open and the air vents open. Absolutely amazing. Drove it last night to a party. All of those guys drive old motorcycles so the 109 fit right in.

LED headlights removed the issue of driving to work in the dark. Also I'll be driving home in the dark and it won't matter since I'll actually be able to see.

Oh and noise cancelling ear buds allowed me to enjoy Aerosmith the entire way to work this morning.

Like I said, its all about the upgrades.