Northstar vs. FWC - more comparable than hyped?

[Stereo]

I keep reading about how heavy the Northstar campers are relative to the FWC yet when I compare features and weights, the difference is much less than expected.

The Northstar MC600 has a dry weight of 1148 lbs which INCLUDES the jacks, 3-way frig, 16k Btu furnace, power converter, 20# propane tank, Fantastic fan, fire extinguisher, etc. The Northstar also includes underbed storage which is SO nice.

Here's what I get when I add everything up for the comparable FWC Fleet:

Shell - 845 lbs
Auxiliary battery system - 53
FanTastic Fan - 8
Interior lights - 3
Furnace - 25 (not sure how many Btu)
Steel Jack Brackets - 4
Camper jacks - 100
2 cu ft 3-way frig - 40
Total = 1078

That's a difference in weight of "only" 70 lbs. The one comparative I am not sure of, however, is the auxiliary battery system. I'm not quite sure what that is. If it includes a battery, then I have to subtract that from the Fleet total for a final difference of 123 lbs. That's not insignificant on a Tacoma, but not as big a difference as I expected given all the hype.

Obviously, you don't have to get all those things with a custom FWC build so you can lighten your load.

The Northstar is wood framed and the FWC is aluminum. Wood can obviously rot if exposed to moisture but in a dry climate like here in Colorado, I'm not sure that's a concern as long as the camper doesn't develop leaks. My current camper is a late 70's early 80's wood-frame Skamper and it's still holding together. I drive it on rough 4WD roads though I don't do hard-core 4WDing (i.e. not a lot of tilts and torques). My understanding is that wood campers sweat less and are warmer since they don't conduct the cold as readily.

So at the risk of attracting the indignation of he FWC (and ATC) communities, I will ask if those campers are really as superior as most comments suggest?

 

[Martyn]

We were just talking about "creative" ways manufacturers use to make their vehicles lighter yesterday. We weighed one of our trailers on some race scales and it came in way below what we thought it should weigh. So even manufacturers use a certain amount of estimation in the weight game.

I own a Northstar personally, and I'm a Four Wheel Camper dealer, how this happened is a story for another time. When I run the campers on my F250 the difference is dramatic. With the Northstar I get 12 mpg, the high center of mass makes the truck wallow, I feel like I'm in a boat. With the Four Wheel Camper I get 16 mpg, the center of mass is low so no wallowing, feels more like a truck.

The Northstar has more storage than the Four Wheel Camper, and I like the regular mattress. That's where the benefits end. If you are looking at going off pavement the Northstar has too much weight too high, and it causes the truck to exhibit some bad off road manners. The FWC keeps the weight low and allows the truck to perform better in off road situations. The aluminum frame is strong and light, and robust.

The Fleet is a great little camper that should fit your needs. The most popular vehicle that uses the Fleet is the Toyota Tacoma. If that's your vehicle expect at a minimum to fit airbags, and you will most probably go the ARB heavy duty suspension route. Talk to Chris Janeway the Colorado dealer for FWC he will set you up.

 

[Stereo]

That's great feedback, Martyn, given that you've been able to compare the two brands directly. I assume with your Northstar, you're still talking about a pop-up? I just want to make sure since Northstar does make hard-sided campers that I have no doubt would be top-heavy off road.

 

[Regcabguy]

Being 6'4",the FWC's wider but shorter door just doesn't work for me. The limited storage is another minus. I appreciate the Heco lifting system,innerspring mattress and underbed storage too. The laws of physics gives the FWC/ATC's the definite edge on handling and off road prowess,but my 15 yr old Northstar has done pretty well.
I had Thuren valve some 2.5 Kings for the truck and together with other suspension enhancements the truck handles the mass of the Northstar well.

 

[Stereo]

Lift system difference

I do love the Heco crank system for how easy it makes the task of lifting the roof. The FWC/AWC panels are really tough for those of us who are on the plus side of 50. The panels also prevent a window panel at the rear, reducing light and view inside the camper.

BUT, the Heco system is at maximum torque when closed, which it usually is in my case 'cause I don't have a garage. In my Skamper - and other old campers I've seen online that use the Heco system - the ends, being under constant pressure where the system attaches to the roof at the back, started to punch through the roof after they worked their way through the wood framing over the decades. I hopefully prevented further damage by bolting some flat bar between the left and right sides so the ends could no longer twist up over time. I just wonder if that's a potential failure point on the Northstar too, over time.

 

[Martyn]

That's great feedback, Martyn, given that you've been able to compare the two brands directly. I assume with your Northstar, you're still talking about a pop-up? I just want to make sure since Northstar does make hard-sided campers that I have no doubt would be top-heavy off road.

Yes both campers are pop ups.

The roof lift systems are different, the Heco crank in the Northstar is very easy to use and I like to hang things on the bars when the top is up. The crank system on a FWC wouldn't work as the bed expands by sliding out. The lift system for the roof on the FWC means the user has to lift it physically. Being plus 50 and having a bad back that can play up it was a concern. A few years ago FWC introduced an external lift assist system using gas struts front and rear. It means that the physical lifting of the roof is greatly reduced to a point where all you have to do it start the lift process. The system can be retro fitted to older models.

My Northstar is 10 or 12 years old, very little has changed with their layout and design in that time, which surprised me, there have been a lot of technological changes in the past decade. I got the feeling that Northstar as a company is sitting on their laurels. FWC by contrast has been striving for improvement during the same time period, which I admire as a business owner.

I haven't done anything special regarding the suspension on my truck to accommodate the campers. I do have OME shocks front and rear, and I fitted Firestone airbags in the rear for load leveling. The bags were added when we towed a horse trailer not specifically for the camper, although I do shoot some air in them to level the vehicle up when the Northstar is in, I don't have to do that for the FWC. The truck is my daily driver, and I use it to haul parts and product for the company so I don't want to do too much to the suspension specifically for heavy loads.

If I get a chance I'll run both campers over the scales to get a comparison, but don't expect anything too soon we are buried with work right now.

 

[Stereo]

Thank you, Martyn, for your additional insight.

 

[Overdrive]

The Northstar is wood framed and the FWC is aluminum. Wood can obviously rot if exposed to moisture but in a dry climate like here in Colorado, I'm not sure that's a concern as long as the camper doesn't develop leaks.

Here's a story (post #47) of a guy who bought a used wood-framed camper that was said to be used very little and stored in a climate controlled garage, and then under a canopy for a couple years at which time the wood rot was discovered. Follow his roof repair story and then decide if a FWC all-aluminum structure (including the roof) is better than a wood framed camper.

 

[Stereo]

Sounds like he lives in a humid state and I've heard that the worst thing you can do is put a tarp over your camper 'cause it will trap moisture. But I don't know how long it was like that. Definitely, wood is a caution.

 

[Regcabguy]

Here's a story (post #47) of a guy who bought a used wood-framed camper that was said to be used very little and stored in a climate controlled garage, and then under a canopy for a couple years at which time the wood rot was discovered. Follow his roof repair story and then decide if a FWC all-aluminum structure (including the roof) is better than a wood framed camper.

I don't think anyone doubts the merits of an aluminum framed camper over a wood one. If a roomy aluminum framed camper with the storage and comfort of a Northstar would be made,I'd consider one. At 65 and being too tall it's not an option for anything smaller. An ATC with it's additional width would be the least I could accommodate. Plenty of FWC 'builds" on the net of everything rotted aside from the frame.

 

[lqhikers]

i have owned a fwc (eagle model) did what it was bought for.
now have a northstar mc600 model does what it was bought for plus more comfort (full mattress,more storage,easier to raise top,more air flow.)

and we take the Northstar every where we took fwc.

both were/are on tacoma access 4x4 Manual trans.

know your limits and both will make you happy.

Les,lqhikers

 

[Scoutman]

Here's a story (post #47) of a guy who bought a used wood-framed camper that was said to be used very little and stored in a climate controlled garage, and then under a canopy for a couple years at which time the wood rot was discovered. Follow his roof repair story and then decide if a FWC all-aluminum structure (including the roof) is better than a wood framed camper.

That would be me and I have a pretty strong opinion on wood framed campers. Most of that is because of my experiences with the one in the link. I think I've worked on that thing more than I've slept in it and I'm over it. Dry climate or wet, the biggest thing you can do for any camper regardless of construction is to keep it inspected twice a year and redo seams where needed. I would say that just about every camper out there has a leak waiting to happen, it's just a matter of what happens beneath the surface when it does. Just because you live in a 'dry' climate doesn't mean that it won't leak when it rains. Storing it under an awning/lean to/garage, etc is one of the best ways to keep your camper functioning properly from reduced UV and element exposure.

That being said, we have made the decision to finish up our repairs, use it through this fall/spring and get it sold. Our plan forward is to get a FWC shell with some add on options. I haven't hauled a FWC yet but I do know what mine feels like and agree with Martyn's comments above about the wide wallowing beast that is my wood framed camper.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

If you are feel up to a small road trip and wanted to see the FWC's up close & in person, we will be in Asheville, NC in just a few weeks.

http://www.overlandexpo.com/east/

Probably a 5 hour drive from Huntsville, NC.

FWC will be well represented at the show.

I'm sure there will be many other pop-up truck campers to see as well.

 

[Martyn]

......That being said, we have made the decision to finish up our repairs, use it through this fall/spring and get it sold. Our plan forward is to get a FWC shell with some add on options. I haven't hauled a FWC yet but I do know what mine feels like and agree with Martyn's comments above about the wide wallowing beast that is my wood framed camper.

As Stan said a visit to Expo East might well be in your cards. Nothing like comparing equipment side by side. The reality is that not every product is for everyone, and our job as vendors is to realize that, get a customer into the right product for their needs, and not be afraid to recommend a product that's not our own.

 

[Scoutman]

If you are feel up to a small road trip and wanted to see the FWC's up close & in person, we will be in Asheville, NC in just a few weeks.

http://www.overlandexpo.com/east/

Probably a 5 hour drive from Huntsville, NC.

FWC will be well represented at the show.

I'm sure there will be many other pop-up truck campers to see as well.

Yep, my weekend passes were ordered weeks ago and we were looking forward to spending more time at the FWC displays. I went last year and spoke with a fellow there (forgot his name) for a good bit and took lots of pictures of the Granby that was there. I plan to do the same this year so I have enough info to place our order.