winches

[punisher1130]

I am new to this so wheeling with a group is a must for me at this point and time, Florida is not the place to go for expo lol. Main reason I am thinking of the Smittybuilt is because it comes with a good bundle for around the price of the warn which in my case is my best bet since I have no place to mount a winch.

I will try and find that winch on EBay and see it will fit the cradle I am looking at, if it does its game on lol.

 

[punisher1130]

Will the cradle for a M8000 work for the VR8000? I cant seem to find a cradle for the VR8000.

 

[1stDeuce]

VR and M series are the same footprint, as are most of the 8000-9500lb winches.

 

[punisher1130]

Perfect, less to worry about.

 

[TeriAnn]

People here will run them down because they are cheap, but Smitty's ain't so bad if you give them a little TLC and do some preventative maintenance.
There are pages out there if you Google where people have torn them down and made improvements. After reading them that is what I did to mine.

The first thing you need to be aware of is that there are NO safety or performance standards for the recreational recovery industry. Winches do not need to meet any performance standard that says they meet their advertised strength of pull. And often the only number of the box of a recovery product is the minimum breaking strength. The minimum breaking strength is the maximum pull that can be used on a new condition product that us unlikely to break the product.

With this in mind, companies can purchase and use any materials they wish. Companies that survive on being the low cost alternative often do so with low cost materials, construction, and lack of testing. The well known name brand companies rely upon the reputation of good trouble free products. Quality materials often come at a premium price and the company likely spends money on performance testing as well. Pay for quality or give the winch a little TLC whenever you use it and tare them down to make improvements that the winch company should have built into their product.

With the exception of shackles and some brands of synthetic winch rope, most of which are certified and tested to meet performance and safety standards, most recovery products for the recreational recovery industry do not need to meet the number on the box. And that number applies only to new condition products, a few of which may not meet the maximum pull specification.

The number that means something is the safe working load (SWL) or working load limit (WLL). Both of which are about one quarter of the minimum breaking strength specification. Weigh your vehicle fully loaded with full tanks. If the WLL of a product is greater than your loaded vehicle's weight then you can probably safely use the product, assuming the minimum breaking strength number on the box is correct.

People mention using a snatch block for a double pull. Never forget that while it halves the forces on the recovery rope and winch, both the snatch block and the hardware behind it are receiving the full force of the pull. This is a place to spend money to make sure your snatch block and shackles behind it have a WWL equal to or greater than the rating of your winch.

And never forget the first recovery tool you should always reach for is your shovel. A lot of time digging away the mud or sand from around the tires, making sure your tires are properly aired down and the application of ridged traction mats will eliminate the need for the winch. U-Tube is full of recovery's gone wrong. Not one of them starts with the use of a shovel.

People seem to be saying what their favorite winch company is. My favorite is Superwinch. They recently introduced a winch designed specifically to use synthetic rope (which loses strength with heat). SUPERWINCH moved the components that produce heat farther away from the drum so the drum operates cooler.

 

[punisher1130]

Wow that is a lot of info, didn't know any of that.

 

[drewactual]

I've got a superwinch on the front of my rig purchased off amazon... I've had it for almost two years, and I've used it twice- both in the last two weeks... for pulling a gantry off the ground during construction and for lifting another winch to the beam of the gantry and attaching it...

point being, it's friggin' nice to know it's there, and even better to know that it isn't going to fail you when you really need it- but it's a LOT better to have options and leave the winch as the final solution... there have been very few times when i needed a stationary vehicle to tug another vehicle, and even less that my truck was the 'stationary' one that a shovel couldn't fix...

do yourself a favor, though (which I guess corrects my second sentence in this post)- pre-stretch the cable... which makes the third time i've used it shortly after getting it... strap to a strong post, a tree (protect it!) or some other stationary object (sand anchor much?!) and spool off all the way to the drum... drop in neutral and allow the winch to pull the rig to the post, tree, or stationary object... this gives a uniform stretch to the cable and promotes similar strengths from one end of the cable to the other, instead of having weak spots in the cable because it wasn't pre-stretched. it could mean the difference between snapping or not. snapping, while dramatic, isn't fun.

 

[Mack4]

There are some pretty smoking deals on Ebay for Engo Winches and of all the lower end winches they seem to get the best reviews. I've seen that 10k Syntehtic for ~$430 on there. Personally, if I was in the market for a 10K winch I would look at the one with the Power Washer, I'd like to put that on my flatbed trailer for hosing off dirt bikes and our RZR! Would have saved me some rust on the Titan after I got stuck out on PINS last year! Ebay search results, there some good prices on here.

It's a dead horse, but the "Massive Multi-Winch Shootout" has some interesting things to say about the Engo product. I also found a great teardown review of a Engo 10K when I was researching options for my Excursion.

Yes, I can purchase a used Warn M12, a new solenoid, winch line and cables, that puts me into a Warn Winch for under a grand. I could also spend less than $500 on a Engo Winch, that doesn't have the track record of a Warn, but by many accounts, can get the job done. With the extra 4-500 bucks I saved by not purchasing the used Warn, I can purchase a mounting system for my winch and upgrade the rest of my recovery gear; MaxTrax, New HiLift, Winch Line Dampner, Snatch Block ect. Heck, for less than a used Warn, I could keep a spare Engo in the back of the Ex in case the primary goes down and achieve reliability through redundancy!

My situation is a little different though, because my "overland" vehicle is also my work truck, I can use my EIN to purchase the Engo product at dealer pricing, which suddenly makes the Engo winch cheaper than the Harbor Freight stuff. That low price combined with a warranty, solid performance reviews and supposedly great customer service is leaning me towards a Engo. The EX is a pig though, if there are any flaws in that Engo, I am sure I will discover them!

 

[Burb One]

There are some pretty smoking deals on Ebay for Engo Winches and of all the lower end winches they seem to get the best reviews. I've seen that 10k Syntehtic for ~$430 on there. Personally, if I was in the market for a 10K winch I would look at the one with the Power Washer, I'd like to put that on my flatbed trailer for hosing off dirt bikes and our RZR! Would have saved me some rust on the Titan after I got stuck out on PINS last year!

It's a dead horse, but the "Massive Multi-Winch Shootout" has some interesting things to say about the Engo product. I also found a great teardown review of a Engo 10K when I was researching options for my Excursion.

Yes, I can purchase a used Warn M12, a new solenoid, winch line and cables, that puts me into a Warn Winch for under a grand. I could also spend less than $500 on a Engo Winch, that doesn't have the track record of a Warn, but by many accounts, can get the job done. With the extra 4-500 bucks I saved by not purchasing the used Warn, I can purchase a mounting system for my winch and upgrade the rest of my recovery gear; MaxTrax, New HiLift, Winch Line Dampner, Snatch Block ect. Heck, for less than a used Warn, I could keep a spare Engo in the back of the Ex in case the primary goes down and achieve reliability through redundancy!

My situation is a little different though, because my "overland" vehicle is also my work truck, I can use my EIN to purchase the Engo product at dealer pricing, which suddenly makes the Engo winch cheaper than the Harbor Freight stuff. That low price combined with a warranty, solid performance reviews and supposedly great customer service is leaning me towards a Engo. The EX is a pig though, if there are any flaws in that Engo, I am sure I will discover them!

I have had an Engo 12000 w/ synthetic on the front end of my suburban for over 3 years and haven't had any problems.

It's not the smoothest winch, but it's pulled my fully loaded suburban(60 gallons of fuel and fully loaded of crap) out of some tough stuff and more impressively up some decent inclines, in the pouring rain and snow and hasn't missed a beat. I'd recommend if budget conscience.

 

[punisher1130]

I have heard that name a couple times on here, and I have seen its review on 4x4mag when they did the shoot out but I haven't had very good luck with led lights from china ( they went bad only after 2 days of being on the truck!) so I am really hesitant on getting stuff like winches from them if they cant even make a worthy light.

That sounds like really smart advise drewactual, the last thing I need is the line to snap on me and I'm sure I could find a good anchor point to do it though I have a question on tree savers. I know I need one I have that as a must on my list but could I use a tow strap as a tree saver or do I need a dedicated strap for it?

I ask because I have a tow strap ( an actual strap not rope) that has been used several times with no signs of wear yet and wondered if i could just use that instead and save a little money in the process since I am trying to build this thing on a tight budget while using it as a daily.

 

[Mack4]

If you're set on American made, I'd download the craigslist app on your phone and just troll. Actually, there is a Pierce Arrow 20k for sale on craigslist for $525 in Shreveport, Louisiana. If you have a Fastenal near you, you can ship it for $75-$100. You'd could pull the crap out of your 5k vehicle with that thing!

 

[punisher1130]

I'm not a stickler for just American made, don't really care where its from as long as its reliable, I just had bad luck with a few things from china so its a iffy thing with me. Don't get me wrong, the Enco winch did pretty well in that shoot off and the issues reported with it are simple enough to deal with, well the ones that have been reported it would seem its too new for a good run.

 

[Mack4]

I hear yah! I would also think a tow strap would work find as a tree strap, provided the strap is rated high enough for the load.

 

[punisher1130]

The tag got ripped off a long time ago but that strap has tows a few vehicles including pulling a van out of a ditch that was stuck in park, think it will hold lol.

 

[greengreer]

There are some pretty smoking deals on Ebay for Engo Winches and of all the lower end winches they seem to get the best reviews. I've seen that 10k Syntehtic for ~$430 on there. Personally, if I was in the market for a 10K winch I would look at the one with the Power Washer, I'd like to put that on my flatbed trailer for hosing off dirt bikes and our RZR! Would have saved me some rust on the Titan after I got stuck out on PINS last year! Ebay search results, there some good prices on here.
It's a dead horse, but the "Massive Multi-Winch Shootout" has some interesting things to say about the Engo product. I also found a great teardown review of a Engo 10K when I was researching options for my Excursion.

Yes, I can purchase a used Warn M12, a new solenoid, winch line and cables, that puts me into a Warn Winch for under a grand. I could also spend less than $500 on a Engo Winch, that doesn't have the track record of a Warn, but by many accounts, can get the job done. With the extra 4-500 bucks I saved by not purchasing the used Warn, I can purchase a mounting system for my winch and upgrade the rest of my recovery gear; MaxTrax, New HiLift, Winch Line Dampner, Snatch Block ect. Heck, for less than a used Warn, I could keep a spare Engo in the back of the Ex in case the primary goes down and achieve reliability through redundancy!

My situation is a little different though, because my "overland" vehicle is also my work truck, I can use my EIN to purchase the Engo product at dealer pricing, which suddenly makes the Engo winch cheaper than the Harbor Freight stuff. That low price combined with a warranty, solid performance reviews and supposedly great customer service is leaning me towards a Engo. The EX is a pig though, if there are any flaws in that Engo, I am sure I will discover them!

I read the same article when I bought mine. Its a bit noisy, and I lost the seals on the solenoid box after a few years. It was easy enough to take apart and clean, and then put back together with a helping of silicone.

I originally had it on a k2500, now on my f350. Toughest pull was the ford buried to it's axles in a cow pasture towing a 7k lb chipper. Basically 16-17k lbs. It was slow but it pulled the truck to firmer ground.
You can't buy a used winch and 3/8 amsteel for what engo is selling them for. Oh and forget the damper, not needed with synthetic line.
If I was looking to put a winch on my f150 I would want 5/16" amsteel to fit more line on there. 3/8" is overkill on a 5k lb vehicle.
I think the biggest problem most people have, especially on this site, is they feel like they need to bring a metric $hit ton of stuff with them. Keep it simple and keep your rig light and you will not be as worried about breaking stuff. I guess alot of this is "cool factor" but there are lots of other devices that work just as well as a winch and are much cheaper and more versatile. http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=1924&item=1856
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=1924&item=1888

Also instead of straps for recovery I prefer to use double braid rope. A little stretch goes a long way. Plus they are cheaper, can easily be spliced by hand, and are infinitely adjustable when knots are used. Yes they store energy but they are nowhere near as dangerous as steel cable, and they have alot more cycles to failure than static rope (ie amsteel)
Sorry to get off the winch topic, although it seems like this thread sort of went towards general recovery info.