2002 Montero Limited Gen3 No Start Condition

[DJPurdue]

Hello Expo friends,

Last week I went with friends to the mountains. Did not go off road since the plan was to hike. So we stuck to the roads and had a very pleasant drive in my 2002 Montero Limited.



We drove 4 hours to get there and in between we were getting off the car and hiking then coming back and then driving around.

Before the trip I had changed the spark plugs, spark plug wires and cleaned out the throttle body. I also put in new Toyo tires for the trip.

We went to the hotel room to freshen up for dinner and when we came back to the car it would just not start up. The engine cranked and cranked, it seemed like it was trying very hard to start but would not. I had more than half a tank of gas in it so it hadn't run out of fuel.

I checked that I was getting spark by pulling out the spark plug and grounding it while my buddy cranked the engine. I got a healthy blue colored spark. My next thought was that the engine was not getting gas. I called the hotel maintenance crew and luckily found starter fluid. I squirted some of that into the throttle body but no luck. Still the same situation.

I checked the crank position sensor as outlined in the following link:

http://easyautodiagnostics.com/mitsubishi/3.0L/crankshaft-position-sensor-test-1

But it checked out to be working fine.

Someone told me that it has vapor locked. I read online that the fuel pump maybe bad. Since the car is about 14 years old I decided to change that anyway. So I ordered that and today (Saturday May 7th 2016) I pulled out the gas tank (not an easy job cuz of the shape and the weird location of the hoses) and changed the fuel pump.



Later I put it all back together and tried to fire the car up hoping that the issue would be resolved but you guessed it. No luck at all. Its exactly the same as before. Battery is good. Also jumped it in case that was the case. No Luck.

Can anyone help give me some reasons why it would just not start?

I thought about the knock sensor as I have seen that happen to an Altima before but there is no such mention for Monteros. Also can someone tell me the location of the fuel filter on the Montero? Even after removing the gas tank I cant find it.

Thanks in advance to the community.

 

[Igorskiy86]

My initial guess was a crank position sensor, but you said that was checked out. I recently had same problem on my BMW track car, it was giving same symptoms to what you are describing. I read through the test procedure described in the instruction that you listed, and I dont know if montero uses a different sensor then what a bmw has, but the bmw one was tested for resistance. On my resistance was almost 0 and new one was around 500, as soon as new was installed, the car fired right up. Have you tried disconnecting your fuel lines under the hood and seeing if you have any fuel pressure being pumped in to the engine, and try going through all of your fuses as well that sound like they might have anything to do with ecu, fuel, alarm or something along those lines.

 

[DJPurdue]

Thanx for the reply lgorskiy86. Yes I have checked all fuses and they are all good. The link for checking the crank sensor uses voltage and not resistance. If you know of a better resource that would be great. I'll check the fuel lines tomorrow and provide an update.

 

[Monstero]

Check the relays that are in a covered box right beside the battery. There are 2 fuel pump relays and if one is bad it will not fire. My money is on those. If you are careful you can pop the top off them and bend the little wire over so that it will make contact when energized. Or you can just replace them both.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Inyo_man]

Also can someone tell me the location of the fuel filter on the Montero? Even after removing the gas tank I cant find it.

The fuel filter and the fuel pump are incorporated into the fuel pump module.

You do not need to drop the tank to service this part.
Tumble the rear seat forward.
Remove the metal panel.
Remove the fuel filter within the module.

http://www.pajero4x4.ru/piii/GR00007400-13B.pdf

 

[DJPurdue]

Thank you everyone for the help.

Inyo_man - I was unable to find the access panel in the car that's why I dropped the tank. But that link is definitely helpful. So I can return the fuel filter now.

Monstero - What an excellent nick! So the fuel pump is working which makes me think that the relays are good. I even took off the feed line from the tank and turned the car on and got a gas shower so that is good I am sure.

Is there such a thing as air lock on gasoline engines? I know that diesels get air locked if they run out of fuel.

Will the Check Engine Light come on if the cam sensor or crank sensor is bad? I double checked the crank sensor and its giving out voltage. My car has a 3 wire sensor so voltage is used to check those. 2 Wire sensors can be checked thru resistance.

Still scratching my head on how to get this thing running again.

 

[Igorskiy86]

After doing a little research, you are right, bmw sensors are different. From what I heard, you will sometimes get a code for a bad sensor, but from personal experience the fault has to be present for a certain time while the car is running to generate a code. Do you get an unburned gasoline smell when trying to start? Also, don't know if you tried this, but it might help to unplug your battery for a while to reset your ecu completely, and another thing you could try is to unplug your air flow sensor which will make some cars run in a fail safe mode ignoring some of the inputs from sensors, but I never tried that on my montero, but on STI its the only way to get the car to run if you are testing with intercooler removed. In past I also had some luck with trying to move my gas pedal while trying to start to see if there is a spot where the car wants to start better. As I was writing about gas pedal, another important sensor came to mind, the throttle position sensor which can cause a no start as well. I did a quick search and there are a few guides on how to test it with a voltmeter.

 

[Salonika]

When I had a no start condition due to a faulty crank sensor, I didn't have spark. If the ECU isn't getting good data from the crank or cam position sensors, I'd be surprised if it would provide spark. If your mixture isn't right, you can turn it over all day and it won't start.

 

[Michael Brown]

Grab the FSM for the 2003 model from the link in my sig if you do not already have one. The 03 might be the closest, but there is one for engines from 1990-2002. These have always been a big help for me.

I would also check the IAC and vacuum lines. My 01 had a hard time starting in cool weather. I had to give it throttle and keep it on until the engine was warm. Eventually found out that the shop I had used in the past incorrectly hooked up the vacuum lines. Fixed those and it started easily.

Have you checked for any codes with an OBD reader? These vehicles have a lot of background codes for sensors and other issues.

 

[Monstero]

Glad you checked feed line and got fuel there...I did not when I opened the line and found that fuel pump was not working.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[DJPurdue]

Thanks so much.

Do you get an unburned gasoline smell when trying to start?

No sir, I don't get any such smell.

Also, don't know if you tried this, but it might help to unplug your battery for a while to reset your ecu completely, and another thing you could try is to unplug your air flow sensor which will make some cars run in a fail safe mode ignoring some of the inputs from sensors, but I never tried that on my montero, but on STI its the only way to get the car to run if you are testing with intercooler removed.

Thanks will try that today. Was too late coming back from work yesterday

In past I also had some luck with trying to move my gas pedal while trying to start to see if there is a spot where the car wants to start better. As I was writing about gas pedal, another important sensor came to mind, the throttle position sensor which can cause a no start as well. I did a quick search and there are a few guides on how to test it with a voltmeter.

Tried starting with moving the throttle cable in the engine while cranking. Still no result. Will try the TPS today.

 

[DJPurdue]

When I had a no start condition due to a faulty crank sensor, I didn't have spark. If the ECU isn't getting good data from the crank or cam position sensors, I'd be surprised if it would provide spark. If your mixture isn't right, you can turn it over all day and it won't start.

So if I am getting spark I can conclude that the Cam Sensor and Crank Sensor are good? That would be great because it would save me some money. Also people say that non-OEM sensors are junk so just get the OEM ones. One and Done.

What would be the best way to check the mixture? The car started acting up in rain.

 

[Salonika]

So if I am getting spark I can conclude that the Cam Sensor and Crank Sensor are good? That would be great because it would save me some money. Also people say that non-OEM sensors are junk so just get the OEM ones. One and Done.

What would be the best way to check the mixture? The car started acting up in rain.

I don't think you can check the mixture without a scan tool and an engine that runs. After you crank the engine for a bit, have you pulled a plug and smelled it and the cylinder for fuel?
Check this link for how the two sensors work:

http://airtexmobile.airtexproducts....t-position-sensor-and-its-effect-on-injector-

I've been running an aftermarket crank sensor for 4 years with no problem.

I suppose you could have spark but no injector firing if the plug is dry when you pull it after cranking (due to a problem with one of the two sensors, but the two work together, and I'm not sure what happens when one is good and the other is failing).

 

[DJPurdue]

https://youtu.be/-KPQtwQhplE

Even after resetting the ECU and disconnecting the MAF this is the situation. Engine just won't catch.

 

[maco35]

Can you try a spare transponder key or, reprogram the one you have. Just an idea.