WARNING! “US Legal” JDM 70/80 series Land Cruisers and Hiace/Delica vans (Craigslist)

[ABC]

EDIT: VIN removed from first Craigslist ad by poster, second Craigslist ad deleted
If you only read one thing: Check the VIN on JDM expedition vehicles!
toyodiy.com/parts/q.html
mitsubishi.epc-data.com/
There have been many problems with imported JDM Toyota and Mitsubishi 4x4s and campers that were sold as “US legal” by Silk Road Autos. Some vehicles have paperwork that state they are 25, but the VIN reveals they were manufactured much more recently. A guy in the auto industry tipped me off to the problem with my vehicle and others, and sent me the links to the free VIN check sites above. I didn’t know how to check the VIN when I purchased from Silk Road Autos, but I have checked many VINs since then. The VIN data has matched the vehicle details provided by every dealer except Silk Road Autos (only dealer to never post the VIN). Foreign market vehicles can only legally be owned in the US if they were imported after turning 25, BASED ON THE MONTH! Below are some vehicles with descriptions that match the VIN data in every area except age. As these vehicles were initially sold by Silk Road Autos, it is a good indication to steer clear of the vehicles they currently have on Craigslist (last three vehicles below).
(US)
“Toyota Hiace Super Custom Limited Diesel 4x4 Van” (Leavenworth, WA)
VIN: LH107-0020622 (December 1991 - 24 years old)
Model year: 1991 ad / 1992 VIN
wenatchee.craigslist.org/cto/5715372527.html

“1990 Mitsubishi Delica 4cyl turbo diesel 4x4” (Edmonds, WA)
VIN: P35W-0201786 (September 1991 - 24 years old)
Model year: 1990 ad / 1991 VIN
bellingham.craigslist.org/cto/5681699409.html

(Silk Road Autos)
“1991 Toyota Land Cruiser 70 Series 4x4 Diesel” (Surrey, BC)
seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/5711863995.html

“1991 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series diesel turbo 4x4” (Surrey, BC)
seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/5711882348.html

“1991 Toyota Hiace Camper Van pop top” (Surrey, BC)
vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/ctd/5708764821.html

If you need more convincing, please send me a message and I will send you my “1991” registration and import certificate. When you check the VIN, you will see that my vehicle is nowhere near “US legal”. There are multiple other owners in the US with this problem, and I can share the info on one other owner’s vehicle as well. My vehicle is up in Canada as the age discrepancy makes it so it can never legally be owned in the US again. Silk Road Autos deleted both of its YouTube channels and purged it’s website of most sold vehicles described as “US Legal” after this was uncovered in July. Don't let JDM lust get the best of you!

 

[evilfij]

If it is off by a couple months and in Canada can't you wait to bring it back and import it once it turns 25?

 

[ABC]

evilfij: No, my van is actually only 23 years old. US CBP does not allow vehicles that were illegally imported to be owned in the US. Once Customs is done with their investigation my van would likely be seized and destroyed! Many legit dealers let people buy 1992 or 1993 vehicles and let them "age" in Canada. As my registration was faked, the dealer is at fault, but ultimately the buyer is responsible for making sure the vehicle is not a day younger than 25 when it first enters the US. I just didn't know how to check that when I purchased. If anyone else is in this situation, contact MVSA of BC (Canadian government agency) for details on how to be refunded.

 

[haven]

"...ultimately the buyer is responsible for making sure the vehicle is not a day younger than 25 when it first enters the US"

Thanks for reminding us to check the VIN with a source other than the dealer.

 

[ABC]

Two more options to check the non-standard vintage JDM VIN:
auc.ts-export.com/month (SIMPLE and free - just shows month and year written out in plain English)
japanesehistorycheck.com/service/ (DETAILED but $$$ - will even show ODO rollback)
Even a US state issued license plate does not mean that a vehicle meets US Customs laws. States like WA and OR are quick to grant registrations to vehicles that have a Canadian registration, especially if it is from ICBC (British Columbia, Canada). If a vehicle is like mine and has an incorrect ICBC registration based on false documents, it is very easy for a vehicle with a 1991 registration in the US to actually be much newer.

 

[wheresmikeys]

We can register these in Montana.

 

[ABC]

wheresmikeys: You can't register any 25 plus year old imported car in MT? With all the research I have done since getting into this headache, the only state that seems to put up a fight is California. This is because they argue that the EPA exemption for the engine does not apply to a new registration (direct import). However, in California you can register an import that already has a registration in one of the 49 other states (it is just really hard). This is one of many reasons why US registered vehicles are more expensive than ones registered in Canada, as they can be sold to people in California. Maybe try something like that if you really want a foreign vehicle. I personally am going to focus on my new US spec 4x4, and steer clear of JDM imports for a very long time!

 

[ABC]

My mistake (can/can't)!
CHECK THE VIN!!!
The 5 above can be registered. Whether or not US Customs crush them is a different matter!

 

[Pntyrmvr]

My mistake (can/can't)!
CHECK THE VIN!!!
The 5 above can be registered. Whether or not US Customs crush them is a different matter!

I think you owe JDM more than an obscure 3 line explanation as an update.

Explain what you are saying.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

 

[AtlantaViking]

I think you owe JDM more than an obscure 3 line explanation as an update.

Explain what you are saying.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

So now I'm curious. My understanding from this thread is that there were vehicles that were listed by their sellers as legally imported 25 yo trucks but in reality they weren't 25 yo yet. So while some states have more lenient laws regarding registration - that has nothing to do with their legal(potentially illegal based on the OPs explanation) import into the US. Basically, you might be able to get a title and license plate in your state, but the initial importation was not up to snuff.

So my takeaway from all of this is that the OP is saying you might be able to get it registered in your state, but don't stop looking over your shoulder for the Feds to end up on your doorstop, collect your rig, and send it to the crusher.

After watching the whole Land Rover saga unfold in NC, stories like this make really paranoid about imported trucks which stinks because so many great vehicles are out of reach.

 

[ABC]

I am so sorry for confusing people (my head is still spinning, and I have been dealing with this for months). My last reply was simply to state that I misread wheresmikeys’ post as "can’t" instead of "can", and it was not intended to be an update. I apologize for not making my correction clearer. From what I have heard, this is only a problem with vehicles sold by the dealer I purchased my van from (not JDM in general). What this all boils down to is that US CBP only randomly checks VIN records from Japan, and that is how a vehicle can be registered in the US even if it is not of legal age. The build date on the dealer’s registration will get you state issued plates, but the build date on the VIN is what will attract US Customs enforcement down the road. I did not believe anything the guy who discovered this problem was saying until I saw the picture below.

The van in the picture was sold as a 1990 to a customer in the US, but if you run the VIN you will see that it is actually a 1992 model. I actually considered purchasing this van last year and had no clue that was the VIN on the window! The VIN (P25W-0614687 mitsubishi.epc-data.com/) is correct as these are the Japanese government export markings. This is the only time a VIN has ever been on publicly shown by Silk Road Autos, as this was obviously an oversight. You can see the advertised age with screengrab below of the "1990" 1992 Delica on the dealer’s website (link was removed). If you want to verify the accuracy of the free VIN websites, you can check vehicle details on a JDM dealer website with posted VINs like mendelsgarage.com/. After months of asking, I was only given the VIN to my vehicle on the day it was ready for delivery (Silk Road Autos’ owner Karim Quarishi stated that I didn't need it until getting to the border). I know this should have been a red flag, but as I mentioned in the original post… JDM lust!

I just wanted to say that this is still too complex for me to completely wrap my head around. I had a hard time believing that my legally imported vehicle was somehow illegal. It took me about a week of research and heartache to finally decide to park my van up in Canada. The following quote on Jalopnik from a US prosecutor is what finally made me understand how all these vehicles under 25 got into the US: "CBP Officers do not perform intensive, intrusive examinations of every item imported into the United States. Such an approach would require an unacceptable level of resources, would unnecessarily slow legitimate commerce, and could pose a threat to our nation's economic security."
jalopnik.com/why-are-the-feds-obsessed-with-seizing-these-peoples-ol-1672381729
Additionally, you can guess the age of a Delica in the US without looking at the VIN. The reason why is way above my pay grade, but I will try and explain it to the best of my ability anyway. The guy in the auto industry who alerted me to this problem said that when it comes to the Mitsubishi Delica, no van imported before August 2016 should have a three gauge altimeter with an inside/outside temperature gauge. This feature was first introduced in August 1991, and all vans built before this date should only have a two gauge altimeter/clinometer. Now that it is 25 years after that date, this means there should be only a handful of vans with these temperature gauges in the US. Therefore, unless the altimeter isn’t from the factory, the three gauge vans were less than 25 when imported. I cannot independently confirm this fact, but it may be helpful in guessing the age of a Delica.

I’m trying to do my best to explain this the way it was explained to me. If you have any further questions, please send them my way. Another thing to remember is that even if some deal can be worked out with US Customs to keep a vehicle that is now legal age (but wasn’t when imported according to the VIN), you will still have an inaccurate registration. I realized that even if I kept my van, no one would purchase it if it was a 1991 for a small portion of its life! Below are just two of the many pages that had the links cut from Silk Road Autos' website in July. These are the 24 year old vehicles from the two Craigslist ads by private sellers in Washington (from original post). One last thing to note is that the seller in Leavenworth still has an active ad, but has removed the VIN. There is no reason to remove the VIN from a Craigslist ad on a legally imported vehicle (or write "Reduced to $16,000 for fast sale"!). The second Craigslist ad was deleted, so beware if you see that green/silver Delica with aftermarket wheels pop up again.
Screengrabs
"1991" 1992 Hiace
Craigslist

Silk Road Autos

"1990" 1991 Delica
Craigslist

Silk Road Autos

Things I have learned:
1. Physically check the frame number (VIN) stamped into the metal.
2. Check Japanese registration month and year according to the Heisei period (date current Japanese Emperor took power).
4. Run the VIN.
5. Have an independent JDM mechanic or dealer inspect the vehicle before purchasing.
6. A registration does not indicate a vehicle’s legality.
7. Not all Canadians are nice.

 

[ABC]

3. Learn how to count.

 

[zimm]

so, you buy a truck from a different country off a guy that tells you "you dont need the vin", and you didnt question the statement??? is the force strong with him, or what?

that statement blows my mind. i wont even look at a rig on the corner used car lot without vin. ****, i'd run my mothers vin if she wanted to sell to me. ******?

 

[ABC]

so, you buy a truck from a different country off a guy that tells you "you dont need the vin", and you didnt question the statement??? is the force strong with him, or what?

that statement blows my mind. i wont even look at a rig on the corner used car lot without vin. ****, i'd run my mothers vin if she wanted to sell to me. ******?

I worked with the guy for over two months to find my van. I made sure I got the VIN before purchasing, but could not find a single source to check it. As Silk Road Autos is such a large importer, it seemed plausible that the reason for the delay in getting my VIN was just how understaffed they are. I always ask for the VIN, but I believe it is just as important to know a source to check it such as mitsubishi.epc-data.com/.

 

[delica-cool]

EDIT: VIN removed from first Craigslist ad by poster, second Craigslist ad deleted
If you only read one thing: Check the VIN on JDM expedition vehicles!
toyodiy.com/parts/q.html
mitsubishi.epc-data.com/
There have been many problems with imported JDM Toyota and Mitsubishi 4x4s and campers that were sold as “US legal” by Silk Road Autos. Some vehicles have paperwork that state they are 25, but the VIN reveals they were manufactured much more recently. A guy in the auto industry tipped me off to the problem with my vehicle and others, and sent me the links to the free VIN check sites above. I didn’t know how to check the VIN when I purchased from Silk Road Autos, but I have checked many VINs since then. The VIN data has matched the vehicle details provided by every dealer except Silk Road Autos (only dealer to never post the VIN). Foreign market vehicles can only legally be owned in the US if they were imported after turning 25, BASED ON THE MONTH! Below are some vehicles with descriptions that match the VIN data in every area except age. As these vehicles were initially sold by Silk Road Autos, it is a good indication to steer clear of the vehicles they currently have on Craigslist (last three vehicles below).
(US)
“Toyota Hiace Super Custom Limited Diesel 4x4 Van” (Leavenworth, WA)
VIN: LH107-0020622 (December 1991 - 24 years old)
Model year: 1991 ad / 1992 VIN
wenatchee.craigslist.org/cto/5715372527.html
View attachment 361074
“1990 Mitsubishi Delica 4cyl turbo diesel 4x4” (Edmonds, WA)
VIN: P35W-0201786 (September 1991 - 24 years old)
Model year: 1990 ad / 1991 VIN
bellingham.craigslist.org/cto/5681699409.html
View attachment 361075
(Silk Road Autos)
“1991 Toyota Land Cruiser 70 Series 4x4 Diesel” (Surrey, BC)
seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/5711863995.html
View attachment 361076
“1991 Toyota Land Cruiser 80 series diesel turbo 4x4” (Surrey, BC)
seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/5711882348.html
View attachment 361077
“1991 Toyota Hiace Camper Van pop top” (Surrey, BC)
vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/ctd/5708764821.html
View attachment 361078
If you need more convincing, please send me a message and I will send you my “1991” registration and import certificate. When you check the VIN, you will see that my vehicle is nowhere near “US legal”. There are multiple other owners in the US with this problem, and I can share the info on one other owner’s vehicle as well. My vehicle is up in Canada as the age discrepancy makes it so it can never legally be owned in the US again. Silk Road Autos deleted both of its YouTube channels and purged it’s website of most sold vehicles described as “US Legal” after this was uncovered in July. Don't let JDM lust get the best of you!

I remember when in Canada JDM vehicles first started to be imported there were all sort of rumors of this and that. Can you tell us what the dealer who supposedly sold you this vehicle says about this discrepancy. It would be nice to see what they say. Are they out of business? If no, wouldn't they be able to shed some light on this and it would be very helpful to hear their side of the story. That would help every one here either way.