New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Pilat]

I've read the last 40 pages, and honestly, you people are exhausting. It's clear that nobody's opinion is going to change. These arguments/discussions have been had for years and there's no convincing anyone otherwise. I'll probably be buying a new Defender once there's a diesel option. I've driven plenty of new JL Wranglers (Probably 15+ between Sport, Sahara, Rubicon) and Gladiators. Bottom line, they're still nowhere near as civilized as modern LR product. Everyone touting the virtues of the old solid axle machines also probably still use leaches for medicinal purposes. There's more to a vehicle than just that last 5% of capability. Are solid axles better than independent suspension? In a vacuum, sure. However, I'd argue that the cross-linked air suspension in a modern LR is 90% as good and the vehicles have been designed to tuck the axles up into the body of the vehicle to avoid getting snagged. Short of a vehicle with portals, nobody has yet to mention that downside to a solid axle vehicle. Furthermore, most people don't address the fact that solid axles severely compromise a vehicle's ride on pavement, in addition to handling. ****, the previous owner of my rig put 170k miles on it and would wheel it frequently and hard; my guess is that maybe 1% of that mileage was done off pavement. Unless you're trying to go 37" or larger, a modern LR can do anything that any of the aforementioned solid axle vehicles can do. I've got 35" on my LR3 and even with the Trepadors, I'd take the ride, NVH and capability of my rig over a JL Wrangler for anything other than hardcore rock crawling simply due to the size/weight of my truck and the fact that I'd need to destroy less of a JL than an LR3 to fit that size tire (However if you've got the money and commitment, you can go nuts on a modern LR). Furthermore, I see plenty of keyboard warriors here **************** on this new Defender who claim they need greater capabilities despite never having driven a modern LR or their own vehicles equipped with 33" or less tires on a challenging bit of trail. All I ask from all these naysayers is to give it a fair shot. If you were in the market for a hardcore rock bouncer/crawler rig then this was never the vehicle for you, and I'd argue that neither is anything "New". Literally, the only detriment I see with these new JLR products since 2005+ is that it takes commitment to fit a tire larger than 34". Is it as easy as other vehicles? No, but with some time and confidence, you can hack up an LR to make clearance.

To be fair, leeches (and maggots) are actually used in modern medicine. Although neither for blood-letting as in the old days.

 

[EricTyrrell]

I've read the last 40 pages, and honestly, you people are exhausting. It's clear that nobody's opinion is going to change.

Because those who got a better Discovery, got what they wanted, and those who wanted an updated Defender got nothing.

There's more to a vehicle than just that last 5% of capability.

If any vehicle is going to capture your last 5% it's a Defender. Buy a Discovery.

However, I'd argue that the cross-linked air suspension in a modern LR is 90% as good and the vehicles have been designed to tuck the axles up into the body of the vehicle to avoid getting snagged. Short of a vehicle with portals, nobody has yet to mention that downside to a solid axle vehicle.

Fine for a Defender, buy a Discovery.

Furthermore, most people don't address the fact that solid axles severely compromise a vehicle's ride on pavement, in addition to handling.

Fine for a Defender, buy a Discovery.

Literally, the only detriment I see with these new JLR products since 2005+ is that it takes commitment to fit a tire larger than 34". Is it as easy as other vehicles?

You're missing two huge "detriments".

1. They're bland. Take off the LR badges and no one has any idea what is what. Never again will the Defender (or Discovery) pique the fascination of young and old.

2. They're still unreliable, but now they're complicated. Land Rover cannot execute both well. It's a terrible combination for products that claim to take you far away from civilization.

 

[Pilat]

Because those who got a better Discovery, got what they wanted, and those who wanted an updated Defender got nothing.


If any vehicle is going to capture your last 5% it's a Defender. Buy a Discovery.


Fine for a Defender, buy a Discovery.


Fine for a Defender, buy a Discovery.


You're missing two huge "detriments".

1. They're bland. Take off the LR badges and no one has any idea what is what. Never again will the Defender (or Discovery) pique the fascination of young and old.

2. They're still unreliable, but now they're complicated. Land Rover cannot execute both well. It's a terrible combination for products that claim to take you far away from civilization.

Buy a Wrangler or an old, old Defender. Problem solved.

 

[Blaise]

Wrong. Springs should be designed for infinite life. It is simple first year engineering school level stuff.

Dude. You could be a millionaire dude. Or a billionaire. Please please please show us how to design things for infinite life.

Dig carefully.

 

[EricTyrrell]

At the end of the day it’s a Land Rover brand that we all like.

I'm not sure anymore. It used to be an interesting brand that appealed to adventure, hard work, and getting dirty.


Now every product and ad they present is sterile, tech & luxury focused, or referential of their past. I guess that appeals to affluent techies seeking a tough image, but don't want to get dirty.

 

[Blaise]

Every ad?

 

[EricTyrrell]

Every ad?

Okay, that is one of Kia's better ads.

 

[mpinco]

Where did LR marketing miss the mark?

By claiming they were returning to their 'roots'.

The Luxury Defender is what the D5 should have been. The current D5 is a 'tweener'.

This is a market positioning issue that LR marketing is struggling with as they try and expand the product line to 3 models - RR, Discovery, Defender.

 

[Pilat]

Okay, that is one of Kia's better ads.

Aaand you're back to "image" and looks.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Aaand you're back to "image" and looks.

Yes, those concepts are components of branding, which is the topic at hand. Looking at the luxury Defender, it's easy to see why one would be hesitant to discuss it.

 

[soflorovers]

To be fair, leeches (and maggots) are actually used in modern medicine. Although neither for blood-letting as in the old days.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

 

[soflorovers]

Yes, those concepts are components of branding, which is the topic at hand. Looking at the luxury Defender, it's easy to see why one would be hesitant to discuss it.

I've gotta ask you Eric, what do you drive? I'm curious what you've got now and what hurt you so bad in the past

 

[EricTyrrell]

I've gotta ask you Eric, what do you drive? I'm curious what you've got now and what hurt you so bad in the past

D90, F150, MINI. Recently: D1, LR3, Mercedes C350. Been around and driven every other LR model except the LR2.

 

[Pilat]

Yes, those concepts are components of branding, which is the topic at hand. Looking at the luxury Defender, it's easy to see why one would be hesitant to discuss it.

Some of us don't care as much about "image" as others.

 

[soflorovers]

D90, F150, MINI. Recently: D1, LR3, Mercedes C350. Been around and driven every other LR model except the LR2.

So I take it your main issue with the vehicle is styling and not capability? Because I'd argue that the new Defender is more capable and reliable than all D1's except for Don Happel's convertible D1 rock crawler. Also, what kind of MINI? An original or a BMW Mini?