paroxysym
Adventurer
such a good looking truck though
Power Wagon as a family Exploration Vehicle
- Thread starter Pzary3233
- Start date
04Ram2500Hemi
Observer
I agree, the auto 4WD is a nice setting. Ram and Ford have it in the half tons, but still not the HD lineup. My wife’s Colorado ZR2 pretty much lives in the auto setting from the first snow fall until near the end of March. It sounds silly, but after having the auto setting myself, it’s almost a requirement. I’d have to look real hard at the Silverado 2500 ZR2 if I was buying a HD truck today.
I just got out of a PW after owning it for 2.5 years and back into a 1 ton diesel. I really wanted to PW to work for us but it just didn't. And really only for two reasons.
1.The PW range is trash. Absolute trash. Especially on 37s. Having to screw with fuel every single day on an antelope hunt or whatever sucked.
2. It simply doesn't carry any kind of load well on the highway. Loaded down for a family camping or hunting trip and the sway on highway curves was terrible. Borderline dangerous IMHO. It was fine with 2 plus gear. 4 plus gear is too much.
For those two reasons I went back to a diesel 1 ton in the form of a 2023 Tremor.
That said, the PW is much, much better in the dirt than the Tremor. It rides better, the turning radius is MUCH better, it's shorter.
The Tremor cab is much more comfortable and I like the slightly larger bed now that I have it.
For anyone that asks, no, I don't tow heavy. But I do load the bed with 1-2000# in addition to people inside when we camp or hunt.
1.The PW range is trash. Absolute trash. Especially on 37s. Having to screw with fuel every single day on an antelope hunt or whatever sucked.
2. It simply doesn't carry any kind of load well on the highway. Loaded down for a family camping or hunting trip and the sway on highway curves was terrible. Borderline dangerous IMHO. It was fine with 2 plus gear. 4 plus gear is too much.
For those two reasons I went back to a diesel 1 ton in the form of a 2023 Tremor.
That said, the PW is much, much better in the dirt than the Tremor. It rides better, the turning radius is MUCH better, it's shorter.
The Tremor cab is much more comfortable and I like the slightly larger bed now that I have it.
For anyone that asks, no, I don't tow heavy. But I do load the bed with 1-2000# in addition to people inside when we camp or hunt.
Last edited:
Tex68w
Beach Bum
I just got out of a PW after owning it for 2.5 years and back into a 1 ton diesel. I really wanted to PW to work for us but it just didn't. And really only for two reasons.
1.The PW range is trash. Absolute trash. Especially on 37s. Having to screw with fuel every single day on an antelope hunt or whatever sucked.
2. It simply doesn't carry any kind of load well on the highway. Loaded down for a family camping or hunting trip and the sway on highway curves was terrible. Borderline dangerous IMHO. It was fine with 2 plus gear. 4 plus gear is too much.
For those two reasons I went back to a diesel 1 ton in the form of a 2023 Tremor.
That said, the PW is much, much better in the dirt than the Tremor. It rides better, the turning radius is MUCH better, it's shorter.
The Tremor cab is much more comfortable and I like the slightly larger bed now that I have it.
For anyone that asks, no, I don't tow heavy. But I do load the bed with 1-2000# in addition to people inside when we camp or hunt.
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
phsycle
Adventurer
I just got out of a PW after owning it for 2.5 years and back into a 1 ton diesel. I really wanted to PW to work for us but it just didn't. And really only for two reasons.
1.The PW range is trash. Absolute trash. Especially on 37s. Having to screw with fuel every single day on an antelope hunt or whatever sucked.
2. It simply doesn't carry any kind of load well on the highway. Loaded down for a family camping or hunting trip and the sway on highway curves was terrible. Borderline dangerous IMHO. It was fine with 2 plus gear. 4 plus gear is too much.
For those two reasons I went back to a diesel 1 ton in the form of a 2023 Tremor.
That said, the PW is much, much better in the dirt than the Tremor. It rides better, the turning radius is MUCH better, it's shorter.
The Tremor cab is much more comfortable and I like the slightly larger bed now that I have it.
For anyone that asks, no, I don't tow heavy. But I do load the bed with 1-2000# in addition to people inside when we camp or hunt.
What was the range on the PW, out of curiosity? And the Tremor?
It's not really fair since they are setup totally differently. The PW on 37" ATs with a Smart Cap was maybe 400 on the highway with no wind but that dropped quickly with any wind or any speed over 75-80. (Interstate speed limits here are 80 and ******** is FAR in Montana.) It was 300-325 realistically playing around looking for antelope or moving around on FS roads on deer or elk trips. You might get another 50 out of that with 35s.
The Tremor is a diesel still on 35" Yokohama AT XDs that I bought for winter use but it does have that overcab AT Atlas on the back that sucks some mileage. That said I still get 500 miles with a full tank on the highway with cruise set at 80-83. Wind will eat it though with the cabover. On the dirt I'm seeing 400 or so. The truck would see close to a range of 600 miles stock on the highway.
I know people say that I can easily find fuel in those ranges and that's correct, however, having to use fuel to get fuel every damn day is dumb. I am often camped or in a cabin 25-50 miles or more from a fuel station. So that's 50-100 miles of fuel just to get more fuel. The Tremor will have a larger stock replacement tank by the fall so it won't be an issue ever moving forward.
Also 37s ride appreciably better on dirt than 35s IMHO. Even before airing them down. They are worth the slight mileage decrease on a diesel especially. For me at least.
Pzary3233
New member
Ahhh see that's a pain, and one I had not thought about Fuel range.... Though coming from the JLU it's not a problem but coming from 450-500 mile range with the Sierra on a cross country trip that IS a problem.
You bring up a good point that the Ford is BIG - I don't need big, bigger than a JLU is good for me.
I'm almost starting to think I should go with a RAM 2500 Big Horn or Laramie Diesel, swap gears/axles for lockers and lower gearing. I've heard of people throwing power wagon axles and radius arms on the Diesel trucks and having good results offroad. The ride.... THAT is what sucks about the regular 2500. I could go with a Thuren kit, but then we are back to the whole payload thing, which again I am not terribly worried about.
I drove a 6.4 truck over the weekend and it was great on road, just a rough ride, but it was not a power wagon. I've had a lot of wheel time behind a Diesel and it rides about the same...
If you get a Ram get a 3500. The leaf rear end does not have the sway issues that 2500s do and can ride very well if setup correctly. I've had both, and the Ram coil rear end sucks with a load. All of my Rams, PW and 3500, have had Thuren front coils. Running those coils in the front and properly inflated 37s will make a 3500 ride pretty darn well IMHO. A lot of the "poor" stock ride of HD trucks is due to the small stock tires that have entirely too much pressure in them. Get 37s on them down to 40F 35R and they ALL ride pretty nice.
well,
I currently have both a PW and a Ford Super duty.
They both have there pros & cons.
I bought the PW b/c I was mad at Ford over a few things. I listed it for sale, but I have been driving it again. I have come to the conclusion that for 90% of my application the diesel is better. I just like the Ford better than the Ram but thats just me. I know quite a few who say it the other way around.
The PW is awesome offroad ( thats what their made for). If I wanted a full size fun offroad rig and that was it, hands down the PW.
I currently have both a PW and a Ford Super duty.
They both have there pros & cons.
I bought the PW b/c I was mad at Ford over a few things. I listed it for sale, but I have been driving it again. I have come to the conclusion that for 90% of my application the diesel is better. I just like the Ford better than the Ram but thats just me. I know quite a few who say it the other way around.
The PW is awesome offroad ( thats what their made for). If I wanted a full size fun offroad rig and that was it, hands down the PW.
Pzary3233
New member
I am 100% staying with the Ram 2500 platform unless someone really can give me a sold reason to move to the 3500. I've driven many Ram 2500s and never found this swaying to be an issue. For my use case there is just no reason to justify the Ram 3500 chassis.
So an interesting point that has not been pointed out in this discussion. Which then makes me go down another rabbit hole...
FUEL RANGE
I've been doing some talking with people who have had both the gas and diesel trucks, I am finding that the fuel range of the 6.4 powered trucks is really lacking compared to the diesel trucks. For this reason alone I am considering a diesel option.
Wheeling/Flex Diesel vs Gas
This brings up a new question. Can the Diesel (With lockers) and aftermarket springs and shocks have the same capability as the Power Wagon? From talking with the folks at CJC Offroad I feel like that answer yes, they can both flex well and ride well offroad. They build both gas and diesel versions of these trucks and wheel both. The only issue they see is that in deep mud and really off camber stuff the front end weight would give an edge to the Power Wagon. Otherwise the two are equals given the same "Spec". I don't have any person experience with that so at this point I call it a draw.
Expense
What I have found is that the Power Wagons are about 10k more than a similar equipped Laramie with a Diesel. That 10K could really be used to build the suspension and install a winch, there is a hidden winch option that installs just like the Power Wagon. Shoot, I could throw Power Wagon axles into the diesel and that would even give me lockers!
So an interesting point that has not been pointed out in this discussion. Which then makes me go down another rabbit hole...
FUEL RANGE
I've been doing some talking with people who have had both the gas and diesel trucks, I am finding that the fuel range of the 6.4 powered trucks is really lacking compared to the diesel trucks. For this reason alone I am considering a diesel option.
Wheeling/Flex Diesel vs Gas
This brings up a new question. Can the Diesel (With lockers) and aftermarket springs and shocks have the same capability as the Power Wagon? From talking with the folks at CJC Offroad I feel like that answer yes, they can both flex well and ride well offroad. They build both gas and diesel versions of these trucks and wheel both. The only issue they see is that in deep mud and really off camber stuff the front end weight would give an edge to the Power Wagon. Otherwise the two are equals given the same "Spec". I don't have any person experience with that so at this point I call it a draw.
Expense
What I have found is that the Power Wagons are about 10k more than a similar equipped Laramie with a Diesel. That 10K could really be used to build the suspension and install a winch, there is a hidden winch option that installs just like the Power Wagon. Shoot, I could throw Power Wagon axles into the diesel and that would even give me lockers!
Tex68w
Beach Bum
The reason people are suggesting a 3500 is for the better payload and stability when carrying a heavy payload. The ride won't be comparable to a 2500 with rear coils, that's a given.
Yes, fuel range on the PW sucks. They get 14-16 mpg at best in stock form (tiny 33's), throw on some 37's, gear, bumpers, etc. and it will plummet. Single digits when running heavy and/or towing isn't uncommon. I saw as bad as 6 mpg in mine in the mountains towing a measly 3,000lbs on 37's. It averaged 11-ish on a daily basis.
A diesel can certainly be built to play off-road and yes it will weigh more which can be a detriment in certain scenarios but all trucks are front heavy by design. I am not sure why you would want to swap axles just to get the factory lockers when you can install a plethora of aftermarket options. PW's come with 4.10 gearing as well and that's not exactly ideal for a diesel.
The RAM PW disconnecting sway bars are very cool but they aren't exactly flawless, motors crap out, sometimes they don't want to disconnect or reconnect. I believe some have adapted the system to diesel trucks but why bother when you can A) either run without the front sway bar entirely, B) manually disconnect it or C) simply install a much cheaper Carli torsion sway bar?!
The diesel engine upgrade on a 2500 is $10K+ so yes, a diesel will be $10K more than a gasser for the engine alone. You're going to have aftermarket costs no matter which way you go so that's kind of a moot point here.
Pzary3233
New member
For payload and heavy towing which I never do.
The power wagon axles for lockers would be my choice, when searching for locker options, I don't see anything for these trucks? By looking at gearing calculators it seems that I could swap to a 3.73 gear with the lockers running a 37-ish tire. I wouldn't mind a lower geared truck honestly.
Agreed on the sway bar! The Rubicon bar has the same issues, when I swapped my JLU to a Rubicon bar I used the Evo manual disconnect. It gets rid of ALL the issues. Quick and easy, been using it for 4 years now without issues. I usually just leave it disconnected until I am headed home.
Agreed the diesel engine upgrade is a $12k upgrade on a new truck, but what I am seeing is that the same Level 2 truck in diesel form is actually CHEAPER than the Power Wagon.
Tex68w
Beach Bum
I just don't agree with the logic of swapping out axles on a brand new truck when you can do lockers for the diesel, they are available. But it's your money and your warranty so knock yourself out if neither is a factor for you. I am not opposed to helping others spend their money, just ask around in here lol.
Like I said previously, if you want what you have with your Jeep but with a HD drivetrain and a V8 then get a PW, especially if you aren't in need of a diesel and never tow heavy. If you want to scratch the diesel itch then maybe consider the HD Rebel and throw a locker or limited slip in the front.
We are very happy with our 2022 Power Wagon and FWC Hawk. It is only 2 of us with no kids and we find it very comfortable. With Timbergrove extended travel airbags and a helwig swayer this truck rides great for our usage which does not include rock crawling or mud bogging. With the front dinette floorpan we have there would be room for 1 child.
