Moyshe Kapoyer
Active member
I live in 80mph+ world, that's the vast majority of my driving. I'll take the ability to keep up with traffic in a turn over the other characteristics..lol.
Anyone disconnect their front sway bar?
- Thread starter Trail Talk
- Start date
I live in 80mph+ world, that's the vast majority of my driving. I'll take the ability to keep up with traffic in a turn over the other characteristics..lol.
crismateski
American Adventurist
06 Power Wagon with an Ovrlnd Camper. No sway bar for roughly 200k miles. I am still alive, wife gets a bit car sick in the mountains sometimes though.
rruff
Explorer
If it's "floaty" or "wallowy", new shocks or a rebuild with higher low speed damping should fix that. Unless she just gets car sick in anything...
rruff
Explorer
Good budget choice from what I hear. Digressive damping which is what you want.Yeah I like them so far!
TexasSixSeven
Observer
I run 80-90 almost everywhere. My truck with camper and no front sway bar handles curves better than my wife’s stock 4Runner. A curve near my house I can run 82-83 without issue. I can only take that same curve at 78-79 in hers. I’ve had a couple emergency maneuvers in the 30K miles I’ve been running a camper. Not once did I feel it was an issue.
rruff
Explorer
What are the relevant details of your setup?
1stDeuce
Explorer
I'll just toss a couple thoughts in here...
Your vehicle will definitely ride better offroad without sway bars, no matter what it is. Articulation should improve as well.
In normal driving, you will likely not miss the sway bar(s) on the road, and with stiffer shocks, it will even handle decently.
The catch is that if you ever have need to do some emergency accident avoidance at higher speeds, you are going to probably end up in a pretty bad way. The factory sway bar tuning promotes a stable vehicle during limit handling maneuvers, essentially trending it toward understeer. Removing the sway bar will cause oversteer in those situations, and if you have to do a double lane change type maneuver, you're pretty much screwed without it, as the body rolls one way and then snaps the other way, causing a rollover or at least a spin out.
It's a trade-off for us all. I ran a K2500 GMC without the front bar for several years. It didn't do hardly any highway time, being a small dump truck around my property and plowing roads. The only time I really missed it was when hauling 4000+ lbs in the bed at highway speeds. It was pretty loosey-goosey. IFS has quite a bit of roll stiffness anyway, so it tends to miss the front sway bar less than solid axle vehicles...
Do what works for you!
Your vehicle will definitely ride better offroad without sway bars, no matter what it is. Articulation should improve as well.
In normal driving, you will likely not miss the sway bar(s) on the road, and with stiffer shocks, it will even handle decently.
The catch is that if you ever have need to do some emergency accident avoidance at higher speeds, you are going to probably end up in a pretty bad way. The factory sway bar tuning promotes a stable vehicle during limit handling maneuvers, essentially trending it toward understeer. Removing the sway bar will cause oversteer in those situations, and if you have to do a double lane change type maneuver, you're pretty much screwed without it, as the body rolls one way and then snaps the other way, causing a rollover or at least a spin out.
It's a trade-off for us all. I ran a K2500 GMC without the front bar for several years. It didn't do hardly any highway time, being a small dump truck around my property and plowing roads. The only time I really missed it was when hauling 4000+ lbs in the bed at highway speeds. It was pretty loosey-goosey. IFS has quite a bit of roll stiffness anyway, so it tends to miss the front sway bar less than solid axle vehicles...
Do what works for you!
rruff
Explorer
It's very important to have shocks with high, digressive damping. These stiffen the damping quite a lot at low shock speeds, such as handling maneuvers. What shocks did you have?
I'd say the stock shocks on light duty trucks are very much geared towards a smooth ride on pavement, since that is where most people use them. My truck with the stock shocks and swaybar would wallow and bounce in sudden maneuvers... it was very unsettling. When I got the new shocks and took off the swaybar it was a night and day difference, for the better. Shortly after I took a long drive on an undulating, curvy, switchback, bumpy road, and was very impressed. Obviously with the camper on it isn't as good, but still well controlled.
I trained myself a long time ago to slam on the brakes first, and go straight. Then let off the brakes and dodge if necessary. I'd rather hit something than roll over, plus I can dodge better if I'm going slow, crashes are less severe, etc. We always need to be slow and cautious in high CG vehicles. Obvious stuff, I know...
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dstefan
Well-known member
Do you have a rear sway bar? I am really close to deleting my front one, but with the camper I wonder if a rear swaybar would help the on road handling while the absence of the front SB in combination with having a rear one would allow for less offroad and washboard chatter but still help stabilize things on-road. I wouldn’t lose much rear articulation at all IMO, plus seems you can do quick disconnect easier on a rear SB on the Tundras.
I know you weren’t asking me but rear only will increase the tendency for oversteer.
On our camper, I have no sway bars on either end. As @rruff points out, you must change your driving style with vehicles like these. I’ve hit black ice and had the rear end try to come around. I was already driving slower than normal (compared to a car) and slowly made corrective inputs and kept things on the road. Sway bars aren’t magical safety devices and removing them isn’t like cutting brakelines or something.
rruff
Explorer
No, never did. Tinkerer (youtube) did a test and showed that a rear swaybar didn't reduce articulation, I think because the rear still flexed to the limits of the shocks and bumpstops. But the swaybar will still cause that extra jolt when one tire hits a bump and the other doesn't.
Oversteer (rear end tends to slide out in sudden turns, ie drifting), like 1stDeuce mentioned? Removing a front bar, and adding a rear bar will both tend to increase oversteer (according to google). So for accident avoidance I don't think it's a good idea...?
But I honestly don't know. We shouldn't be driving these things like race cars, and for accident avoidance we should already be off the throttle... in fact I can't remember ever trying to dodge something in my life without applying the brakes first, and then letting off them to turn.
Also, if you have a vehicle built 2012 or after, it will have stability control which will prevent or greatly reduce oversteer. In general I pretty much hate that and traction control too, but it's there and it's a pain to turn off, so...
At present all I can say is that I can take switchbacks faster than the speed limit without the lean bothering me, and if I hit bumps while turning, or if I make sudden steering motions (for fun), it seems very composed for what it is. No wallowing or strange motions anyway; predictable.
I think the key in all of this is just knowing what your vehicle will and won’t do, and how it behaves at the limit, and then driving accordingly. The trick is that you have to actually drive your vehicle at the limit to know how it will behave there. Most everyday people never approach that unless they’re in an emergency situation. Then when in that situation they haven’t prepared and it bites them.
As a rule, folks like us who are into vehicles and modifying them, in my experience at least are much more interested in learning what our vehicles can do and are more prepared for those situations as a result.
As several have said, swerving in an emergency should be a last resort option and hard braking should always be the default. There are many instances of people swerving to avoid animals and then hitting something else when they could have just braked.
My Superduty is leaf sprung, lifted, on 34’s with no front swaybar, a rear swaybar, and airbags in the back. It’s very composed and handles well for a solid axle, leaf sprung truck. It has good shocks and it can handle emergency maneuvers when needed. But similarly to how it doesn’t stop as quick as my daily driver 2006 Honda Accord it also doesn’t corner as well. I just take that into consideration in how I drive each of them.
With or without either swaybar it’s always going to tend towards oversteer since it’s a rear wheel drive (in 2wd) vehicle with little weight over the rear end when unloaded. It’s very tail happy in the snow but also comes right back to straight when you let off the throttle. My car on the other hand tends towards understeer which can also bite you quickly if you’re not prepared for it and accounting for it. You won’t spin out, but you might plow straight into a tree if you’re not careful. It’s all about knowing how your rig reacts.
As a rule, folks like us who are into vehicles and modifying them, in my experience at least are much more interested in learning what our vehicles can do and are more prepared for those situations as a result.
As several have said, swerving in an emergency should be a last resort option and hard braking should always be the default. There are many instances of people swerving to avoid animals and then hitting something else when they could have just braked.
My Superduty is leaf sprung, lifted, on 34’s with no front swaybar, a rear swaybar, and airbags in the back. It’s very composed and handles well for a solid axle, leaf sprung truck. It has good shocks and it can handle emergency maneuvers when needed. But similarly to how it doesn’t stop as quick as my daily driver 2006 Honda Accord it also doesn’t corner as well. I just take that into consideration in how I drive each of them.
With or without either swaybar it’s always going to tend towards oversteer since it’s a rear wheel drive (in 2wd) vehicle with little weight over the rear end when unloaded. It’s very tail happy in the snow but also comes right back to straight when you let off the throttle. My car on the other hand tends towards understeer which can also bite you quickly if you’re not prepared for it and accounting for it. You won’t spin out, but you might plow straight into a tree if you’re not careful. It’s all about knowing how your rig reacts.