Shopping for an Express/Savana 2500/3500, and debating between regular or extended

[KirkL]

After initially leaning towards a Ford E-Series, I'm casually shopping for an Express/Savana passenger van while I sell my Land Cruiser. I've been struggling with an internal debate about whether to target a regular or extended wheelbase, and curious if the experienced owners could share their thoughts.

For my budget and what I'd like to spend, I am targeting a 6.0 L V8 2012-2020, which I think will be solid for my weekend adventure build. I'm basically looking for something that can drive me from the Charlotte area up into the SE mountains, and be a very comfortable basecamp rig for day hikes, mountain biking, or paddling. I'm thinking that I want to do a rear bench seat that can serve double duty as a fold down bed (probably with a trifold mattress topper). Eventually, I am thinking that I would want to do a high top with a more extensive interior build with shore/solar power, sink, fridge, and cabinets, where the kitchen galley sits across from the side passenger doors, but I don't want to spend all of my summer weekends in my driveway working on a build, so this would be an incremental build over 2-3 winters.

I prefer 4x4, but I'm open to rear locker and a mild lift on a RWD rig. I like being able to drive down forest roads, but I probably don't need something that is highly capable off road.

Any thoughts or advice on what has worked for you with the regular wheelbase or the extended wheelbase? I am leaning in a direction, but I'm not certain and I go back-and-forth.

 

[86scotty]

If you mainly travel in the east 2wd with a locker and good tires, maybe a mild lift which is easy to do, is probably all you need.

4wd Chevys are harder to come by, most are Quigleys, however you might find an AWD Chevy which is a very good platform and well proven, however that's going to be an RB and most likely a 5.3l. They were only made in half ton chassis and in regular body length.

I would stick with the 6.0 if you want to comfortably cruise at highway speeds and never want for power. I've had two 5.3l Chevy AWD vans at least and they are kind of anemic when loaded, but they are only a half ton chassis. The 6.0l is a thirsty, durable workhorse. Only buy one if that's what you need. You'll get tired of putting gas in it, much like a Ford V10.

I've driven many miles in lots of vans and the most awkward is the Chevy EB van, any year. They chose to lengthen the wheelbase where Ford chose to keep RB/EB wheelbase the same and have more rear overhang. It's easier to overcome offroad problems on a Ford. Less breakover, tighter turning radius, etc. Bigger tires and lift can solve the rear overhang problem, Chevy EB's are just too long in the middle for offroading or handling tight situations. It's why you never see anyone using them for this. Not to say they aren't a good fit for some people who want more interior space and want a Chevy, but.........

EB Chevys are pain in the ass to maneuver in tight quarters due to the long wheelbase. I strongly suggest you rent/borrow/drive one before you buy. Almost every fleet/rental Chevy van has awkward dents just forward of the rear wheels. That's because people turn in too sharp with them and run up on corners, poles, etc. due to the awkward wheelbase.

Also keep in mind the interiors of Chevys aren't as tough as Fords. Door panels, etc. fall apart in hard use. I guess it's becoming obvious I have a lot of experience and strong opinions on these things from the commercial/fleet side where I spent a career. Ford vans just generally stay in one piece better than the competition. Let's not even talk about those things Dodge makes.

 

[AbleGuy]

⬆️ What he said…

That long wheel base is absolutely miserable to drive as far as maneuverability. It’s even a challenge to try to park one of those at the grocery store.

Unless you really, really feel like you needed to extra interior space, I’d stay the heck away from the long wheel base model.

I had that wonderfully powerful 6.0 gasser btw and yeah, of course it got ************ mpgs. The trade off was worth it to me tho…

By the way, there’s what looks to be a pretty nice all wheel drive Chevy van for sale right here on the forum on the east coast that only has about 105,000 miles on it.

Also, there is a dealer in the upper Midwest, who specializes in finding and re-selling Chevy all wheel drive Vans. I can’t remember his name but you could probably find it with a relatively quick search.

 

[KirkL]

Thanks gentlemen! I saw the AWD van, but after test driving an extended Ford with no passenger windows in Charlotte traffic, I decided that the passenger version was going to be the right match for me. It's a shame that they only sold AWD on the 1500, because I think a theoretical 2500 AWD with a 2-3 inch lift and the 6.0 L V8 would have been absolutely perfect for my use case.

 

[whith]

These guys know what they are talking about and I mostly concur. ive had both Ford and Chevy but only in the short wheelbase of both and both Quigleys. If the shorter wheelbase works for you, I’d say go with the GM van with the G80 factory rear end especially if you can live with 2wd. The 6.0 is a great motor and they can be had for less than a Ford these days most likely. Eric is likely right about the interior holding up vs the Ford, but I have almost 160k on my Chevy and it’s just fine with not many rattles but we all chase those things all the time. Remaking interior panels in the rear is not that big a deal. Doing a lift on one is accessible and it’s a good powertrain.

 

[whith]

I’ll add that 4wd is primarily a winter thing for me. I live in Oregon and use it a lot in snowy road applications. Once summer hits, I almost never need it. And I still go off road a fair amount.

 

[hansu]

I've had several Extendeds. Currently building out a '17 3500 Extended w/ 6.0L and 6spd. Mine is primarily an approach vehicle for offroad moto trips and a tow vehicle for various trailers.

Yes, you have to swing wide in parking lots and no the longer wheelbase is not ideal for an offroad vehicle. On the plus side:

- it's 13k tow from factory.
- you can leave the 2nd row seats and still have a lot of "living" space -- it's a nice balance.
- the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 are all basically the same engine so parts are easy and its a very reliable platform.

I think it makes a good platform for 2-3 day mini-RV capable of doing easy 2 track. And it easily doubles as a TV for a travel trailer or enclosed trailer.

I have a 3" lift on mine from Jeremey @ Weldtec. I've yet to do the rear springs as I need to wait until the interior is built out to know what weight I need to spring. The OEM rear overload springs are harsh once you strip out the rear seats and have yet to replace that weight. When I'm loaded up with a moto or two, tools, etc it settles down back there quite a bit.

If you go this route do some research on rear diffs. Some of them can take a limited slip, like mine, but some of them have basically zero after-market support for any other internals and the OEM open diff is garbage in inconsistent grip. Before I swapped mine out for an Eaton I would get stuck in wet grass. I don't feel the need for 4wd for the use-case of this van. I'm good with a LSD and a winch.

Oh, I swapped the front brakes out for hi-carbon rotors and Wagoner semi pads because every set of OEM GM rotors I've ever had would warp and shake on descents. It only took one descent of the eastern-side of the Rockies before I said "F this!" and made that swap. Haven't had any shakes or wobbles since.

If I wanted an offroad-bias van I would probably do an E-series. I may yet do that actually. 2 van family.

I'd be very nervous to tow anything with an Extended E-series. Too much ass behind that rear axle for my comfort.

 

[86scotty]

These guys know what they are talking about and I mostly concur. ive had both Ford and Chevy but only in the short wheelbase of both and both Quigleys. If the shorter wheelbase works for you, I’d say go with the GM van with the G80 factory rear end especially if you can live with 2wd. The 6.0 is a great motor and they can be had for less than a Ford these days most likely. Eric is likely right about the interior holding up vs the Ford, but I have almost 160k on my Chevy and it’s just fine with not many rattles but we all chase those things all the time. Remaking interior panels in the rear is not that big a deal. Doing a lift on one is accessible and it’s a good powertrain.

I was going to ramble on about how I actually prefer Chevys over Fords and have never been a Ford guy at all, except for vans, but I figured I had said more than enough. For most people Chevy van (factory interiors, etc.) hold up great. In fleet and rental world no one takes care of anything and the final word on durability eventually floats to the surface. Here's a great example. Have you ever seen a Ford Transit commercial/rental vehicle with the gas fill hatch still there? They are ALL ripped off by careless users. Stuff like that. Bad design on Ford's part trying to be more like Sprinter and not pulling it off. No pun intended.

OP, if you can find a Duramax Chevy you'll get the best of all worlds. That's what Whit (above) has and he will likely never sell it! They are rare.

As for window vans vs. cargo keep in mind that the most important 3 windows are the passenger slider/barn door windows and the rear windows. Many cargo vans have these. If not you can add them. It is VERY scary and unsafe IMO to drive a cargo van with no windows at all. I'm a window van guy personally but you can add your own, with screens, if you can't find a window van that checks all your other boxes.

 

[ExpoMike]

I answered a couple of these questions in your post on my build thread. 😀

If you are solo, I would say regular length but it's tight for two. That extra 20" makes a lot of space.

Since my van is the same WB and footprint of my 2nd Gen Ram extended cab, long bed, I wheeled my first one all over without any issues but that said, I mainly travel in the southwest US, so I really haven't dealt with tight trails. Most forest roads aren't going to be a problem, I would think.

If you're looking for 4x4, Ford is the easiest to find, they seem to be everywhere. Reason we didn't go with a Ford is the doghouse is offset to the passenger side, enough to cause seating issues for my wife. The GM line doesn't have this problem (unless diesel or big block equipped). For us, 4x4 was a must and I feel we got lucky to find the exact spec one we bought (other than being black, which will change).

 

[KirkL]

I answered a couple of these questions in your post on my build thread. 😀

If you are solo, I would say regular length but it's tight for two. That extra 20" makes a lot of space.

Since my van is the same WB and footprint of my 2nd Gen Ram extended cab, long bed, I wheeled my first one all over without any issues but that said, I mainly travel in the southwest US, so I really haven't dealt with tight trails. Most forest roads aren't going to be a problem, I would think.

If you're looking for 4x4, Ford is the easiest to find, they seem to be everywhere. Reason we didn't go with a Ford is the doghouse is offset to the passenger side, enough to cause seating issues for my wife. The GM line doesn't have this problem (unless diesel or big block equipped). For us, 4x4 was a must and I feel we got lucky to find the exact spec one we bought (other than being black, which will change).

Thank you! That window height measurement gives me a little more confidence that I could make the regular wheelbase work for me.

The other consideration that I didn't mention in favor of the shorter wheelbase is my parking situation. My garage won't fit even a stock van, so I'll generally be parallel parking on the street in front of my house, which would be a bit easier with the standard wheelbase. My godforsaken HOA prohbits us from parking RVs in the neighborhood that are visible from the street, and as my build shifts me from plain passenger van closer to "camper" or "motorhome," I think the standard wheelbase is less likely to draw attention.

I have a very rough sketchup of a "Vanagon" style build using a TBD benchseat/sofa that folds down to a full bed (I don't think the queen size I was originally imagining is going to be practical), probably with a ~20 inch platform extension off the back of the seat. I'm thinking that a trifold mattress can fold up and sit on top of the extension in the seat configuration, and then the mechanics of putting the bed down and unfolding the mattress shouldn't be too challenging for weekend use. I'm only 5-10, so I was trying to decide if there was a way to make an "east/west" configuration work, but I think I'm going to want the rear A/C for traveling in these humid southeastern summers, and I think an east/west benchseat/bed configuration might not be possible with the rear A/C unit still taking up so much space.

 

[KirkL]

Any opinions on whether this would be too much rust for a 2018? I have an opinion, but I could use a sanity check as I'm new to these rigs and haven't shopped before for vehicles that spent any time outside the sunbelt

Also, @86scotty, as resident fleet expert, are there any years that the white GM vans are not subject to the flaking paint? Specifically, in this case, do you know if 2018 is eventually going to flake off and need to be stripped and repainted?

 

[ExpoMike]

The exhaust being rusty is not uncommon since they heat cycle and that is hard on any coating that might have been on it.

To me, it looks like it was sprayed with some undercoating on the frame rails but hard to say if it was done prior to any rust forming (protecting the frame) or after rust had set in (they are just covering it up). If it wasn't fully rusted and they covered it up with black undercoating, I would say this is fairly clean overall. Looks like a Quigley or Advanced 4x4 conversion.

As for pealing paint, that seems to be common no matter what year.

 

[Moyshe Kapoyer]

Any opinions on whether this would be too much rust for a 2018? I have an opinion, but I could use a sanity check as I'm new to these rigs and haven't shopped before for vehicles that spent any time outside the sunbelt

Also, @86scotty, as resident fleet expert, are there any years that the white GM vans are not subject to the flaking paint? Specifically, in this case, do you know if 2018 is eventually going to flake off and need to be stripped and repainted?

That would be a hard pass for me. It's to easy to find a rust free van.

If I was in your shoes, I'd get the long wheel base, 3500, with the 6.0. Add a locked rear end and all terrain tires, it will probably take you 99% of the places that you would want to take a big, heavy vehicle.

 

[hansu]

That would be a hard pass for me. It's to easy to find a rust free van.

If I was in your shoes, I'd get the long wheel base, 3500, with the 6.0. Add a locked rear end and all terrain tires, it will probably take you 99% of the places that you would want to take a big, heavy vehicle.

I find this to be very sensible. And not just because MK agrees with me.

 

[86scotty]

That would be a hard pass for me. It's to easy to find a rust free van.

If I was in your shoes, I'd get the long wheel base, 3500, with the 6.0. Add a locked rear end and all terrain tires, it will probably take you 99% of the places that you would want to take a big, heavy vehicle.

Agreed, they are out there, but that's a 4wd van which are much harder to find.

I'm no fleet expert, just had years in them everyday, but every white Chevy I've seen peels eventually. My 2011 silver Ford is even doing it. Grrrrrrrrrr.