thinking of getting a jeep advice needed

[4Rescue]

Dave I think we have had this discussion a time or two.

I'm there with Dave on most of these issues. However I do think the AW4 is an awesome trans, as long as you keep it cool! These transmission WILL overheat when they are being pushed. On the highway, on a backroad, or especially while offroading. If you are straining them they are going to get hot, and fail, no doubt about it. However the beauty of an AW4 is if you CAN keep it cool, it will treat you right. Go with an after market trasnmission cooler and forget about it. Then if one day the trans does burn up, ride up to the junkyard and pick one up for $150.00.

But as far as the sticking with Toyota goes. I am there with Dave on that one. The TJ is an awesome Jeep, with the 4.0 and AW4, but its still a Jeep. Its not a bad rig at all compared to alot of other stuff. I would by a Jeep with that engine/trans combo 2nd to a Toyota though.

Agreed, the one that "just wouldn't go anymore" was fried and an external aux. cooler would have solved that. Like ANY auto one of the biggest things is keeping it cool... I learned that by NOT doing that on the first one and towing alot with it in the summer so that I'll chalk up to my mistakes. Subsequent trucks all had add-on tranny coolers. Another Issue I constantly ran into with my 4.0's, nearly everyone BUT the 99, was needing water-pumps replaced at about 100k on the head and then again at 200 or maybe 250k. When they went they went immediatly and the trucks either needed to be repaired on site or "limped home" at a rate of about 2 miles followed by 2 hours of cool-down and so on and so forth. Not fun.

Like JH says, Jeeps are fine trucks, they go good off-road. In fact they go REAL well right off the showroom floor into the rocks. moreso then ANY other truck sold in N.America. However I doubt you'll see one winning any reliability shoot-outs versus a late 80's early 90 Toyota Truck or 4Runner. THe Jeep, any-one of the SFA models WILL however wheel better right out of the box and be very simple to get good suspension flex out of. Something the Toyota's front end can not be patted on the back for BUT, like I said, things fall off, and they just don't hold together as well overall.

So RoamingAZ what's the verdict man, this is all useless internet conjecture untill we find out what you in fact decide to do. I'll say it again, if you're looking at a Wranghler go 4.0L 6spdman LJ Rubicon and I think you'll have room for the kids AND your cool gear you've already built (or at least alot of it). Something about removable tops is that you can rig things onto a hard-top for the long trips and colder months in terms of storage, recovery etc, then take it off and go lite for daily driving etc. and run a soft-top or even another hard-top sans gear. I really think that a Jeep or ANY truck with a removable top has the advantage of mutiple configurations that can be interchanged and it's something I'm really working over in my mind for my 4Runner.

Cheers

Dave

 

[troy]

I just finished reading your two posts on this subject. At first I thought it was a no-brainier. '90 toyota for a '98 wrangler, but then I read your build-up thread and I can see why this is difficult.

I've owned several Jeeps, CJ 125K, YJ 190K, TJ 100K (2001) and now a '98 cherokee 225K. All of them ran untouched engines and transmissions. 160K is getting to the place where you will have things like alternators and starters to repair, but I would not worry too much about the hard parts. Even if a big-ticket item goes Jeep parts are cheap and plentiful.

You mentioned that the jeep books at $6,500, but I've seen many with that mileage go for around $3-5K. Wranglers in decent shape seem to hold at the $3K mark regardless of age.

I'd say the biggest reason you should do the trade is you can keep all your non-truck expo equipement and it has seating for 4. The kids will love riding around with the top down.

With all of your equipement, you could have a killer expo trailer and the 4.0 will have no problem pulling it.

BTW - 33s and 3.07 gearing do not mix well. I'm sure 5th gear is useless. Also, expect 15mpgs with 33" on a wrangler.

Good luck.

 

[jh504]

24mpg?? What's your secret??

I honestly dont know man. I have always got great mileage out of my 4.0s with autos. I had a 96 4.0 HO with a 6.5" lift and 305s and I got a good 17-18 out of it on the highway. I am just conscious of how I am driving. I accelerate a little slower than most and I never put it to the floor. I just kind of let it do what it naturally wants to. I know that sounds dumb, but it seems to work for me. I get better mileage out of my wife's truck than I did out of my '01 3.4 Tacoma.

I have heard of others who swear that the combination gets great mileage, and then I have heard from those who swear it gets horrible mileage. It could be that the motor is just that susceptible to driving style changes. It has a lot of torque at its fingertips and a little lighter foot might make all the difference in the world. Thats the only thing I can come up with?

 

[4Rescue]

Like I keep saying mate, one of Jeep's biggest downfalls is inconsistancy. I never saw those type of numbers but I absolutely belive you. I've seen others do it with older trucks...The amazing-gem 99 XJ of mine scraped 18 once. I felt all giddy inside... 24 would have left a stain on the seat eh Worst of all for me was I could never figure why I was getting 15 when that 4.0L litteraly is ASLEEP rolling down the hwy. I mean it's barely turing 1800 rpm, and it's not lugging either. My Dad's current 98 XJ is like this. It's hardly breaking a sweat but it never get's better then 15 no matter what you do to it. loaded or empty, you get the same. It's nearly infurriating hahahahahaha.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Root Moose]

I honestly dont know man. I have always got great mileage out of my 4.0s with autos. I had a 96 4.0 HO with a 6.5" lift and 305s and I got a good 17-18 out of it on the highway. I am just conscious of how I am driving. I accelerate a little slower than most and I never put it to the floor. I just kind of let it do what it naturally wants to. I know that sounds dumb, but it seems to work for me. I get better mileage out of my wife's truck than I did out of my '01 3.4 Tacoma.

I have heard of others who swear that the combination gets great mileage, and then I have heard from those who swear it gets horrible mileage. It could be that the motor is just that susceptible to driving style changes. It has a lot of torque at its fingertips and a little lighter foot might make all the difference in the world. Thats the only thing I can come up with?

Quoted for truth.

A lot of people drive like asses. That's why they think they need 400 hp in a SUV. It's also why they get crap fuel economy.

The other factor is that some people just don't maintain their vehicle. Between old plugs/wires, worn unibearings, ghey stuff stuck to the outside of their Jeep when they drove through the auto section at Wally World with the crap magnet turned to "11", there's a lot of possibilities for poor mpg.

I had a guy complain to me that he could never break 18 mpg in his stock XJ. After spending a while talking about it the fact that the check engine light has been on for the last two years came to light. Gee, wonder why he gets crap mileage? I never did find out what caused the MIL, but I'd suggest he got pretty decent mpg considering.

Anyway, I guess my point is that you shouldn't believe everything you hear/see on forums and at club meetings. In my experience the AW4 XJ can EASILY meet the fuel economy that it is rated at if you don't drive like an asss and are sensitive to maintenance. Both my 2001 and my old black 98 had no problems wrt mpg when stock.

There is something to what Dave is saying regarding consistency though. That said, in my experience it is not in the drivetrain. The "foo-foo" stuff like switch gear and such can be inconsistent. The headlight switch is one area I like to pick on (stupid, old design from the 60s that really bugs the piss out of me). Every EFI Jeep I've ever owned has been more or less been very reliable given decent maintenance. By decent maintenance I mean following the service manual schedules, not the typical TLC guy replacing everything under the hood as soon as they get the truck home under the guise of "preventative maintenance".

 

[Root Moose]

Like I keep saying mate, one of Jeep's biggest downfalls is inconsistancy. I never saw those type of numbers but I absolutely belive you. I've seen others do it with older trucks...The amazing-gem 99 XJ of mine scraped 18 once. I felt all giddy inside... 24 would have left a stain on the seat eh Worst of all for me was I could never figure why I was getting 15 when that 4.0L litteraly is ASLEEP rolling down the hwy. I mean it's barely turing 1800 rpm, and it's not lugging either. My Dad's current 98 XJ is like this. It's hardly breaking a sweat but it never get's better then 15 no matter what you do to it. loaded or empty, you get the same. It's nearly infurriating hahahahahaha.

Cheers

Dave

Dave, did you buy your Jeeps new? If not, how many miles did they have when you got them? Just curious.

I don't know what to say in your case. You must have a real bad case of bad Jeep ju-ju because the stories you relate of the issues you had sound very atypical in my experience among our circle of Jeep people.

 

[4Rescue]

Dave, did you buy your Jeeps new? If not, how many miles did they have when you got them? Just curious.

I don't know what to say in your case. You must have a real bad case of bad Jeep ju-ju because the stories you relate of the issues you had sound very atypical in my experience among our circle of Jeep people.

Nah, none of them were new. And I agree I definatly had some bad Jeep JuJu eh, but like I said, I feel like inconsistancy is one of Jeeps biggest down falls. Wranglers are different beasts what with the frame and lighter weight etc. I'd definatly consider a Diesel or 4.0L LJ again (if I ever do I think I'll bring it up to you and have you bless it mate maybe then I'll get some better numbers out of'er), but I probably wouldn't get back into an XJ. Fun trucks, they just don't last in my experience. Unless of course you pull and IXNAXJ and build one of those awesome "Halo cages" and those boxed steel corners :drool: for it and basicly give it a space frame. That would be awesome, I LOVE his XJ.

1st- 89 Cherokee 2.8 V6 152K on it when I bought it... I have hated GM ever since... really this is the WORST motor ever put in a truck, car or otherwise and GM should be shot for that... I promptly traded it for:

#2- a 90 with 65K on it. 4.0L Auto. THis is the one I fried the tranny on by my own admission I was hard on it and hadn't added an aux. cooler.

3rd- 94 with 185K on it (this one was BAGGED when I bought it so...)

4th: see below...

5th- I belive was my 99 that I bought with 43K on it and this one ran like a top. Granted, just like JH said, I ws part of the reason for the milage. I can definatly be blamerd for stomping on it whenever I wanted to It's hard to not enjoy that 4.0L thrust. That said, I also tried to "hyper-mile" that sucker for a month and I still got 15mpg... No matter what I did. Then I loaded her up and pulled a trailer full of Rafts out to Idaho... GOt 13... So frustrating. I loved this one though. I like the new style interior enen though I feel it is a little more cramped then the old style. Still I loved it.

Oops: EDIT: the 4th was a 93 that I rolled after 2 months so not alot of history with her. The axles and tranny are still making another Jeep go down the road so she was good for something eh. The 99 would be my 5th XJ. Then I bought the 4Runner. At the same time I unloaded all my Watter-Cooled VW's for the sake of my drivers lisence and now I ONLY drive my 4Runner. I prefer Trucks, and I love my Toyota, but again... I MISS MY 4.0L!!!!!! It's just such a great, tractable off-road motor. It never lugs, and with good low gears it'll pretty much idle up most obstacles. I really do love an inline motor, Newtonian Physics and all you know

I LOVE the 4.0L but like I keeps saying, inconsistancy seems to be the worst issue with most Jeeps. I sure wish I had been ab;le to eek out 24mpg, hell, I'd have swapped that motor into my 4Runner I miss all that torque so much.

I agree with you fully though Moose, you don't need a ton of power. My 22RE is far from a powerfull motor but it get's the job done and you just have to use the gearing eh. 400hp in a street SUV may be fun, but it;s pretty rediculous eh

Cheers

Dave

EDIT: So RoamingAZ, you gonna get an LJ eh Oh come on you know you want one... Yeah now I'm trying to sell you on a Jeep, I'm confused too HAHAHAHAHAHA. Nah they (LJ's) really are great trucks IMO. One of the best platofrms Jeep ever made IMO. If not an LJ, I still say look into an older 4Runner or even a 3rd Gen with the 3.4 5spd Combo. That's a great truck right there.

 

[jh504]

or even a 3rd Gen with the 3.4 5spd Combo. That's a great truck right there.

Thats my all time fav. Get the e-locker and keep that thing forever. That is one of the best vehicles Toyota ever made.

 

[roamingaz]

Made the trip to Colorado

So after going back and fourth on the Jeep Vs. my Toyota I decided to just drive up to Colorado and check out the Jeep. I had it in my mind I was going to pick it apart and wasn't going to like it and I would find as much wrong with it as I could. After 300+ miles in my Toyota my back was sore and I was cramped and I really not likin my pickup.
To my suprise the guy pulled into town exactly the same time as I did and after a quick lunch we checked out each others rigs. I had basicly stripped everything off my truck except bumpers. lights, cb, aux. tank., and camper shell.
His jeep had a few suprises he failed to mention but only because he didn't know anything about jeeps or 4 wheel drive for that matter, when he test drove my truck I told him to lock the hubs and he had no clue what that was!
So the Jeep has just under 160K miles and runs/drives great, some of the extra stuff include a upgraded Rubicon Express lift with trailing arm and sway bar disconnects, welded on rock sliders( not sure of the brand but not home made), aftermarket seats ( he said they had seat covers but they are a aftermarket seat covered in neopream), full unbody rock armor, slip yolk eliminator, Linex coated inside, tuffy console, kenwood stereo system, and the headlights are from a JK (nice!)


So I own a jeep.....and now I understand!
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The drive home was much more comfortable and I started a list of things I needed to do on the Jeep.

Fix rear axle leak
Radiator looks a bit corroaded inside
driver mirror loose
battery cables
find a bigger fuel tank!
tires , 2 are hi tread and 2 are low
bumpers ( I kept my winch )
rack of some sort

 

[OverlandZJ]

So I own a jeep.....and now I understand!

:clapsmile

Congrats on the aquisition. Looks clean and well on it's way with the current mods. When you start noticing the clicks/clunks when hitting ripples in the road look at those swaybar disconnects. They are an early style and the holes oblong where the pins go through after time. JKS would be a great replacement... or even a Currie unit.

Again, congrats.

 

[jh504]

Nice looking TJ man. I think you will be happy with it. I am sure you are enjoying the torque factor after coming out of the Yota. Honestly, I would have made the same decision. Just be sure to keep it well maintained and it should do just fine.

 

[jamm]

So I own a jeep.....and now I understand!
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Congrats on a fine choice. Nice looking Jeep. X2 on the added fuel capacity.

In the pic above the discos don't look like they are installed correctly. Check the manufacturer installation instructions (hopefully they will have something on line). I believe most install the U-shaped top bracket above the sway bar rather than under it where the nut could pull through.

Welcome to the Jeep wave community.

 

[roamingaz]

Congrats on a fine choice. Nice looking Jeep. X2 on the added fuel capacity.

In the pic above the discos don't look like they are installed correctly. Check the manufacturer installation instructions (hopefully they will have something on line). I believe most install the U-shaped top bracket above the sway bar rather than under it where the nut could pull through.

Welcome to the Jeep wave community.

I will have to check into that, thanks !

And I already had 2 jeep waves today, made me laugh.

I have posted alot of stuff for sale on this forum if you want some good deals I have decided to go lighter and simpler so rtt and fridge are for sale....