This way or that way?

[wacker]

Domestic trucks, fuel economy, room and capability?

Jeep guy through and through, I've got two modified TJ's, and I'm looking really hard and a more family friendly vehicle.

Wife and I are at the baby's around the corner stage of our lives and I want to be prepared. I've been lurking and posting on all the various forums for years and I just can't pick a direction to go in. I'd love to stretch one of the Tj's and have my perfect dream rig but it is definitly not in the card for the near future. So why I'm posting here is that I'd like some input on domestic crew cab pickups. I'm a little weary about colorado's and canyon's as I've never known a single owner of one personally. I'm not a fan of the dakota's (mostly astethics with the newer). And if I'm to go fullsize I want economy and towability. Diesel. Which diesels are decently buildable for economy and longevity? On the GM light trucks, what are there known issues? weak points?

The end all goal is a truck that can go anywhere with in reason from one coast to the other and do so comfortably for 2-4 people. the lack of space in the Jeeps is definitly one of the biggest factors that restrict our roaming. I'd love to build something that'll allow more trips to the places we want to go (baja, oregon, colorado, etc..)

Alright well it's 322 am and I'm at work, so excuse my long windedness and maybe lack of coherency.

 

[KLAKEBRONCO]

IMO stick with a fullsize. And not a diesel. The 1/2 ton gas trucks get as good fuel economy as the smaller trucks. Maybe even better. MUCH more room.

GM light truck issues are wheel bearings, and that's about it. Pretty solid trucks.

Diesel is nice but you aren't going to get a big mileage increase like you think. Power/mpg VS Power/mpg the diesel rules, just because a gas engine with that power would drink fuel. But do you really need that power?
I used to have a Duramax crewcab. I liked it allot. Didn't like the payment though. I cranked the torsion bars and put 285's on it, and only got 14.5mpg in normal day to day driving.

A major issue I had with it was that I put lots of miles on it in a short time. If the warranty had expired and then something major broke I would have been SCREWED. I would have been making a big payment on something I couldn't afford to fix. Expect engine and trans troubles to be 3-10x more expensive than for a gas powered truck.

 

[02TahoeMD]

IMO stick with a fullsize. And not a diesel.
A major issue I had with it was that I put lots of miles on it in a short time. If the warranty had expired and then something major broke I would have been SCREWED. I would have been making a big payment on something I couldn't afford to fix. Expect engine and trans troubles to be 3-10x more expensive than for a gas powered truck.

This man speaks the truth there! My brother in law just had to have work done on his F250 Super Duty diesel...which involved removing the cab of his rig to work on the truck. It cost several thousand dollars to replace his head gaskets. Yuck!

I am very happy with my Tahoe, so far, so good.

 

[redthies]

I just did a lot of searching for the right truck (didn't find it...) and if you buy the right combo of engine/trans in a diesel you can eliminate alot of the issues mentioned in the post above. I talked to MANY diesel performance shops and diesel fuel injection specialty shops. I asked them which truck to buy. With ZERO exceptions they all said buy a Cummins! I don't care for the new body on the Dodge, but have owned an 05 3500 crewcab shortbox 4x4 diesel. It is the only truck I regret selling. You will spend more on maintenance, no question, but if you are thinking you will keep this truck for the long term, the potential to put a camper on it (keep the wife and babies happy) and tow one of your TJs to the trails is very appealing. Good luck with your search!

 

[cocco78]

I would have to say and older diesel if you can find a nice one, 2003 and older Fords with the 7.3L or a 98 and older 12V Dodge Cummins. Both are great motors, the 7.3L powerstrokes a decent to work on, parts are not to expensive and its very reliable. However the Dodge rides nicer with its coil sprung front end. I had a 97 Dodge 2500 club cab, long bed, 4x4, Cummins, auto, that I had a truck camper in the bed, and pulled a trailer with my Jeep on it and still got 14mpg.

I regret selling this truck so much...

From what you want to do I would stay away from a domestic 1/2 ton truck with IFS and look for an older diesel. Buying tips for getting a good diesel are mainly look in the bed for any type of hitch, if it has one walk away. If you want to fit 4 people in it that also kinda leaves out Dodge as they didn't have a crew cab til 2003. Ford Superduty F250, crew cab, short bed, 7.3L, sounds like the way to go. After my dodge I picked up a 2000 F250, ext cab, short bed with the 7.3L, auto, 4x4, and with a 4" lift and 35" tires it still got 17mpg highway, it was stock except for an exhaust and intake.

My Superduty...

For a gas truck, go full size. Mid size trucks won't get you any better mileage over the full size. Also with the full size, go with the larger motor over the smaller motor, again same mileage and better performance. If your looking at GM trucks, in general the IFS is pretty week (well all makes are). GM's will eat through idler arms quickly if your running the truck off road. Wheel bearings seem to last as long as any other truck from my experience. I have a 99 GMC sierra 1500, ext cab, short bed, 4x4, 5.3L, that never see's dirt and the idler arms last 30k-40k miles unless you go with an aftermarket upgrade.

My 5.3L V8 would get me 21-22mpg on the highway before the 10% ethanol started showing up, I have not seen over 19mpg in forever. BTW, my truck has 180,000 miles on it now and runs and drives like it has half the miles. With a 26 gal tank I have a highway range of 400 miles on average. The torsion bar front ends bring the suck as far as ride comfort, the Dodge 1/2tons ride nicer IMHO, but the 5.7L hemi doesn't get the mpg's of the 5.3L.

Specific things to look for on 99-07 GM's, Worn idler arms, power window regulators don't last, fuel pumps don't last. Other than that normal maintenace items that are the same for every vehicle.

 

[Rot Box]

I think you will get a lot of bias opinions on which fullsize trucks are best :snorkel:

I like mechanically injected diesels for their simplicity but that also means I had to find an older truck. If you click the link in my sig you will find the reasons I decided to go with my 91 crew cab Ford. Happy hunting!

 

[Regcabguy]

I've owned the truck in my signature for three years now. The Cummins powerplant has 30% less moving parts yet outweighs the Powerstroke or Duramax by 150-200#. That speaks for the build quality. The frame is boxed and hydroformed minimizing the torsional twisting that fatigues campers. Add a solid axle and hopefully a manual six speed and you've got a pretty solid rig. Suspension will have to be tweaked by Carli Suspension or Thuren Fabrication to handle a heavier camper. I just returned from Joshua Tree and Anza Borrego(super windy btw) and got just over 16 mpg. My rig weighs 9000# with two occupants and a wet Northstar. The cab does not have to come off in the unlikely event of a major repair. I'd stick with the 5.9 engine in years 2003-2007.

 

[wacker]

Thanks for the quick and well thought out replies.

I guess I really have to look more at the 1/2 ton options for Gasser's. The last pick up I had was a 2wd 93 f150 with the 5.0. Loved it, definitely didn't love filling it up. I guess the stigma of that has kinda stuck with me when it comes to 1/2 tons.

I understand Diesel maintenance can be more expensive in the short game, but the longevity and actual ease to work on is impressive. That being said, my day job I maintain 16cyl Alco power plants and 6 cylinder Cat generators. Used to have a 4bt, a 5cyl Volvo Penta, and a yanmar or two in there as well. I'm no stranger to big mechanical, bulletproof diesels.

I also get the bias' from brand to brand, respect it, and expected it. In High School my mother drove a 93 f350 crew dually with the 7.3. I loved that truck and cursed them for selling it before I got my license. Unfortunatley I'm a little turned off with the diesel's as buying new is out of the question and I'm a little hesitant about trying to find one not abused during the diesel power age of the last ten years.

Thanks for the input, I'm gonna roll with some of what you guys have said and focus my research a little more.

Please anybody else, everybody else, chime in. I want as much info as possible.

 

[redthies]

I regret selling this truck so much...

MY only regret is that you didn't sell it to ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sombrero:

 

[DT75FLH]

Thanks for the quick and well thought out replies.

I guess I really have to look more at the 1/2 ton options for Gasser's. The last pick up I had was a 2wd 93 f150 with the 5.0. Loved it, definitely didn't love filling it up. I guess the stigma of that has kinda stuck with me when it comes to 1/2 tons.

I understand Diesel maintenance can be more expensive in the short game, but the longevity and actual ease to work on is impressive. That being said, my day job I maintain 16cyl Alco power plants and 6 cylinder Cat generators. Used to have a 4bt, a 5cyl Volvo Penta, and a yanmar or two in there as well. I'm no stranger to big mechanical, bulletproof diesels.

I also get the bias' from brand to brand, respect it, and expected it. In High School my mother drove a 93 f350 crew dually with the 7.3. I loved that truck and cursed them for selling it before I got my license. Unfortunatley I'm a little turned off with the diesel's as buying new is out of the question and I'm a little hesitant about trying to find one not abused during the diesel power age of the last ten years.

Thanks for the input, I'm gonna roll with some of what you guys have said and focus my research a little more.

Please anybody else, everybody else, chime in. I want as much info as possible.

there are some trucks out there that have not been bombed.

I bought a 98 quad cab 12V from a guy who owned a concrete co. so its been used hard but not modified. 240k on it and it still gets 17 mpg at 75 on the highway. I'm slowly rebuilding it. (carpet, suspension, etc) you can tell by the bed that its been working and it had a goose neck hitch in it.

my work truck is a 09 f-150 ccsb 4x4. it has the 5.4 3v engine and a 6sp auto tranny. it will get 15-17 mpg on the highway (with +1 size tires)and it rides great. plus the oil changes are about 60% cheaper. its rated to tow 10k also.

we occasionally have been known to beat theses trucks out in the desert:sombrero: we run 285-75-17 BFG muds and even with the IFS they have been holding up.

so far my coworkers truck needed lower control arm bushings when he hit 70k miles

other than oil x and tires no problems up to 120k HARD miles and that is with a lot of idling time. ( i work for the county in the rural areas)

 

[jp0863]

I would have to say and older diesel if you can find a nice one, 2003 and older Fords with the 7.3L or a 98 and older 12V Dodge Cummins. Both are great motors, the 7.3L powerstrokes a decent to work on, parts are not to expensive and its very reliable. However the Dodge rides nicer with its coil sprung front end. I had a 97 Dodge 2500 club cab, long bed, 4x4, Cummins, auto, that I had a truck camper in the bed, and pulled a trailer with my Jeep on it and still got 14mpg.

I regret selling this truck so much...

From what you want to do I would stay away from a domestic 1/2 ton truck with IFS and look for an older diesel. Buying tips for getting a good diesel are mainly look in the bed for any type of hitch, if it has one walk away. If you want to fit 4 people in it that also kinda leaves out Dodge as they didn't have a crew cab til 2003. Ford Superduty F250, crew cab, short bed, 7.3L, sounds like the way to go. After my dodge I picked up a 2000 F250, ext cab, short bed with the 7.3L, auto, 4x4, and with a 4" lift and 35" tires it still got 17mpg highway, it was stock except for an exhaust and intake.

My Superduty...

For a gas truck, go full size. Mid size trucks won't get you any better mileage over the full size. Also with the full size, go with the larger motor over the smaller motor, again same mileage and better performance. If your looking at GM trucks, in general the IFS is pretty week (well all makes are). GM's will eat through idler arms quickly if your running the truck off road. Wheel bearings seem to last as long as any other truck from my experience. I have a 99 GMC sierra 1500, ext cab, short bed, 4x4, 5.3L, that never see's dirt and the idler arms last 30k-40k miles unless you go with an aftermarket upgrade.

My 5.3L V8 would get me 21-22mpg on the highway before the 10% ethanol started showing up, I have not seen over 19mpg in forever. BTW, my truck has 180,000 miles on it now and runs and drives like it has half the miles. With a 26 gal tank I have a highway range of 400 miles on average. The torsion bar front ends bring the suck as far as ride comfort, the Dodge 1/2tons ride nicer IMHO, but the 5.7L hemi doesn't get the mpg's of the 5.3L.

Specific things to look for on 99-07 GM's, Worn idler arms, power window regulators don't last, fuel pumps don't last. Other than that normal maintenace items that are the same for every vehicle.

I think looking in the bed for a hitch is a bit misleading. I can think of at least 8 people that I am friends with, including my own truck, that have gooseneck hitches and rarely tow. I would look closer at that point, but not walk away, you may be missing out on a good deal. Maybe go look at where the truck is kept or used if it's a ranch truck. See what kind of trailers are towed. I myself have had a gooseneck hitch (turn-over-ball) for 4 years and have towed with it 3 times, 2 of which the trailer was empty. The receiver hitch though i have used a couple hundred times. just a thought... nice dodge by the way

 

[Terrainist]

Yes, lots of bias, as people love their trucks. As you said in your first post, if you go fullsize, go diesel. Dodge 5.7 or Ford 7.3., hard to go wrong. And if something bad does happen, major mechanical failure... stuff happens. You will know that you have a good truck after having driven it, get it fixed, and drive it again. Thousands have gone before you and the proclamations are true, absolutely go diesel.

Comparing a gasser to a diesel...

The gassers feel... disposable. Like a disposable lighter, your just waiting to use it up and throw it away. Get in a diesel, and you know your in a real truck. The gasser, just warming it up, just starting the thing will take a gallon of gas. The diesel, you will wonder if the fuel gauge is even working, because it will not move (eventually it does). The gasser will cut the legs right out from under you with the poor fuel mileage. You won't even want to use it. It'll sit out on the street, or in the driveway... an albatross around your neck because of the cost of putting gas in it and using it.

Their is no comparison to gassers and diesels, they aren't even the same species. If you get a gasser, you'll just be waiting to get a diesel. Get a diesel and be done with it. Not trying to start an argument. People like what they like. I've had and driven the snot out of both, I love diesel. For hauling people, gear, goods... weight, up hills or flat highway, on or off road, long distance or any distance, get a diesel. If you want to go five miles to work everyday and the home improvement store on sunday, might consider a gasser. But I would still get a diesel.

 

[jcbrandon]

My daily driver is a 2007 quadcab Dodge Power Wagon (a 2500 Heavy Duty with some cool off-road bits). I've put nearly 45K miles on it in two years and am very happy with it.

Before buying this truck, I really thought I wanted a diesel. I compared purchase price plus cost of ownership and determined the gas engine is a better value for me. With all things considered, I figure I'm money ahead on the gas engine for the first eleven years. Yes, eleven years. The main factors are the huge uptick in price on a diesel, even for a used truck. And that diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline. This truck has a 5.7 liter hemi and I've never felt it was underpowered.

Bear in mind that if you buy a late-model that requires low-sulfur diesel you will not be able to fuel up in Mexico.

My previous truck was a 2000 Dodge Dakota. That truck has a fraction of the capabilities of the full size. The fuel mileage was only about three mpg better than I get in the big truck. And it was about the same when towing. It is much easier to park a mid-size in the city, but that is a very small benefit.

 

[bftank]

mechanical diesel, my vote

 

[wacker12]

Full size = crew cab, srw 7.3l ford, old body style
compact truck + crew cab colorado

this is what i'm looking at more and more after some of the input of this thread. I really like the the older fords and I've seen some nice examples here on the board. obviously the age keeps the price down but decreases the availability of nice trucks.

the colorados are really nice but still a little pricey for what you get.