Tata to build LR in China

[evilfij]

I have been hoping they would stop having defenders built by overpaid drunk englishmen and have them built by underpaid diligent Indians since I heard of the takeover. Sorry, but unskilled labor does not merit 30 quid an hour, unions be damned. The labor costs to build a defender are insane. It is the perfect vehicle to be moved to a low labor cost area. Of course, they will probably kill the defender and build LR whatevers there in china ....

 

[AFSOC]

Ok, it's all funny stuff and all but...

There's no Lucas on a modern Rover. I have yet to find one part on my 2004. Most of it is Bosch. In fact, most everything on the vehicle is the exact same as so many other European cars. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi... you'd be amazed. Most of our sensors are Bosch. The MAF is actually the exact same part used in VW, Mercedes and BMW. The auto trans is a ZF, used in some Porsche, and just about every BMW. The driveshafts I believe were made by Dana/Spicer (?). The ABS systems is Wabco, the exact same part used on Hummers.

It's just assembled in the UK. Which... I've never been to one of their plants. I have been to the Magna Steyr factory in Austria, and was blown away by how good it was. And as much as I hate to admit it, I'd prefer a car assembled in Mexico, vs. one assembled in Canada. The US was somewhere in the middle. I can say that US workers are perfectly capable of taking a part which failed final test, and putting it in the "ship" bin instead of the "reject" bin, by accident. Experienced that several times. This is not something restricted to the Chinese.

Sure, we have our dropping liners, but is it any different than BMW M3 oil starvation engine failures? The reality is, as much as we like to *****, I don't think modern Land Rovers are any less reliable than any other European brand. I'm talking reality, not JDP or Consumers Reports. Talk to the owners of any out-of-warranty non-Japanese brand, and the owners will tell you they are unreliable pieces of **** but they love them anyway.

:coffeedrink: Impressive restraint from the Rover crowd. I expected this response much sooner and lost the pool.

 

[94Discovery]

very very very depressing .
not it will be produced in china but because a factory will be closing there doors sending thousands to home ,over paid or not when no more factories are in the UK USA AND Canada what and where all the masses do ?????
You cannot Consume if you are not working.
You cannot eat if you are not working .
******* depressing

 

[rugbier]

Without openning the can of worms ( but I am sure I am ) , Unions have created the Automotive Caos , here, and everywhere else they rule.

The unions 50 years ago were about their members wellbeing, the ones now are about the Fatso's wellbeing ****ting on their Members

A car built in Detroit should cost half of what it does, but the BENEFIT cost it is crazy and indeed transferred to the vehicle.

I am with evelfij, maybe the Defender will not be killed if the price tag for a new one ( maintainning the old standards ) is not overinflated due to labor issues.

very very very depressing .
not it will be produced in china but because a factory will be closing there doors sending thousands to home ,over paid or not when no more factories are in the UK USA AND Canada what and where all the masses do ?????
You cannot Consume if you are not working.
You cannot eat if you are not working .
******* depressing

 

[deadbeat son]

So when Toyota started building in North America for the North American market, did everyone freak out? What about when Nissan started building cars in the US for sale in the North American market?

Then what is so difficult to understand about Tata building Rovers in China for sale in China? Rovers for North American and European markets will still be built in the good ol' UK.

 

[Desert Dan]

I'll add to the Lucas Motto:

Why do the Englsih drink warm beer?
Lucas makes refrigerators.

"Lucas the prince of Darkness"

I wish Tata well!!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Without openning the can of worms ( but I am sure I am ) , Unions have created the Automotive Caos , here, and everywhere else they rule.

Not necessarily. The Magna Steyr facility in Graz Austria is unionized. The workers there were highly competent, professional and hard working. I don't know how or why it's different, but it is.

A car built in Detroit should cost half of what it does, but the BENEFIT cost it is crazy and indeed transferred to the vehicle.

Not to be a union appologist, I'm anything but. But I do like to see the truth rather than hyperbole. The actual labour cost in a vehicle is something much closer to 10% than 50%.

 

[Nonimouse]

Tend to get somewhat annoyed at the inferal that anything made in the UK is rubbish.

Single Malt Wiskey
Cider
Perry
Proper Beer
Nissan Cars
Ibex
Triumph Motor Cycles
Decent cheese
Mustard
And so much more
The best in the world

Build quality was the issue in the '70's, place your hand on the bible and tell me that US motor manufacturers didn't have quality issues from the 50's all the way through to the 90's

What we specialise in over here is cr&p design quality, usually by foriegn designers brought in by foriegn owned British companies...

 

[Wander]

It's not just Lucas-the problems occured when the amount of and complexity of the electronics increased quickly in the 70's. My wife's 00 Benz has had it's share of electrical bugs. Now on my 64 IIa I haven't had any electrical problems (oops I think I just jinxed myself).

I am kind of puzzled as to why Tata would move this to China-the owner of Tata is very pro India and it seems they have plenty of labor and factory sites with costs very similar to that in China. If it is done well it could work but it would sting to see "made in china" on a Land Rover. Someone mentioned bikes-the carbon fiber frames are mostly made in Taiwan-especially the higher end brands-which is a big difference in quality than China. The one area that will affect the quality the most (other than assembly) is the metals used since the bulk of cars are assembled from a wide variety of parts from all over the world.

The 06 Mini Cooper S I had used an engine from Brazil, a gearbox from Germany, multiple French assemblies ,etc all assembled in England in a plant owned by BMW-talk about confusion.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I can do better than that.

I was on the Ford EcoSport program until it was cancelled. It was going to be an SUV smaller than the Escape, based on the Fiesta platform. It was to be assembled in Brazil, engine from the UK, trans from Japan, chassis engineered in Germany, powertrain ancilliaries engineered in the US and made in Canada, marketting in Spain, accounting in Portugal IIRC... the conference calls were fun!

 

[AmericaOverland]

Well, IMO, Jaguar stopped being Jaguar when Ford bought them... they even started looking Ford-ish to me

In fact, this particular acquisition was a case study in one of my management classes in my undergrad years.

 

[greenrover]

Ok, it's all funny stuff and all but...



Sure, we have our dropping liners, but is it any different than BMW M3 oil starvation engine failures? The reality is, as much as we like to *****, I don't think modern Land Rovers are any less reliable than any other European brand. I'm talking reality, not JDP or Consumers Reports. Talk to the owners of any out-of-warranty non-Japanese brand, and the owners will tell you they are unreliable pieces of **** but they love them anyway.

Have to agree. After owning a 98 BMW 740iL, 2000 BMW M5, 1987 Range Rover, 2000 Disco and, now, a 2004 Disco, my purchase decision-making is much different than those who buy based on JDP or CR. Ironically, my mother bought her Acura based on CR and had to replace the transmission twice (under warranty of course). My wife's Honda pilot always seems to have something breaking as well, but it is cheap to repair.

I like driving - on road and off - so pick vehicles that do one or the other the at the best level to suit my lifestyle.

All that said, a Land Rover is just not a Land Rover if it isn't made in England, or at least a former colony, so I nominate the US as the next location for a factory.

I'm off for a warm pint and some whisky to wash it down.

Dave

------

2004 Discovery

 

[Z O O R O P A]

I think it speaks volumes when people can adjust to change without resenting it. I would hope by now that everyone understands most of life, is pretty transient

when is change "good" or acceptable? when the conditions are agreeable to our private prejudices or what we perceive as OK by our standards? Is the quality of car manufacturing any worse in India, China, England, or the USA?

Honestly, Rover has always ranked low in reliability and value. Exactly how much worse could it get? The LR4 has none of the heritage so whats done is done. If anything, maybe they might take a new direction from the LR3/LR4 supercharged gas guzzling over priced lemons they have been producing

As a current LR owner and having owned 3 models to date, I look at Toyota owners with envy now. We should be able discuss our discontent about our vehicles if they let us down. I'm not brand bashing here but I'd rather have the thousands I am spending in repair bills for travel than seeing my mechanic as often as I see a Mobile station

When I read this, the first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Then those Land Rovers aren't really Land Rovers anymore. They're some former british vehicle made in China." I'm tired of seeing that label "Made in China."

Stephanie -

why are you tired of seeing "made in China"?

 

[overlander]

I'm guessing that Tata brokered a deal to penetrate the emerging Chinese market ( which is the Big up and coming market) through a negotiated deal that if they are made there, then they can sell there.

As much as I hate to see a Land Rover not made in England, it may be a good thing. An increase in third world market penetration, and a huge increase in economy of scale on parts would be a boost to the marque.

I think what tends to bother Land Rover owners most, even more than minor gremlins, is the cost of repair and parts. Chinese made Rover parts made to the same spec as British made Rover parts could drop in cost worldwide.

Not to mention, if Asia become a more significant market for Rover, then they will have to maintain off road ruggedness in their designs, since the Asian infrastructure has a long way to go. While I like the quality that Ford brought to Rover, I see Rover slipping their designs to bell and whistle mainstream of North America. Any expo vehicle that ends up being designed with a heavy weight on North America (the completely paved country) is a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[greenrover]

Why go East, or West depending on your orientation, when you can go South... to Brazil for solid axle, coil sprung military spec 4x4s. You get jungle and swamp tested vehicles for which, if timed right, trips for replacement parts become a literal party.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/imagens/defesanet/afv/marrua/marrua_agrale.jpg

http://www.agralemarrua.com.br/agra...5728900444295/$FILE/Marrua_serie_especial.jpg