getlost4x4
Expedition Leader
i think my fist is larger. i bet it spools quickly though. it even had an intercooler, if that tells you its way to small.:Wow1:
found an cherokee with a diesel
- Thread starter getlost4x4
- Start date
BIGdaddy
Expedition Leader
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Yeah, but in fairness we are talking about a 25 year old French relic. Under no circumstances would you consider that a good idea.
I admit to having a weakness for the Citroën SM but I know better than to actually consider buying one.
I admit to having a weakness for the Citroën SM but I know better than to actually consider buying one.
lamontagne
Adventurer
I would love to have the air cleaner in it though. Those canister types are the best for filtering the fine dust particulate we get here in the south-west.
Black Dog
Makin' Beer.
Looks like something you could homebrew a snorkel for too.
BlueGerbil
C´est le gerbil plus bleu
The turbo diesel engines were pretty common in european XJs. One was the mentioned 2.1 french engine, the other is a 2.5 liter engine built by the italian company VM. It was used in other cars as well.
The VM had thermal problems and is a non-desirable engine at all. I don´t understand why so much people want a diesel engine in a Jeep. I´ll avoid that as long as I can. The 4.0 is such a great engine, can be converted to run on propane/LPG and you can add a 2nd fuel tank and some gerry cans for that long distance trips where no fuel can be bought.
The VM had thermal problems and is a non-desirable engine at all. I don´t understand why so much people want a diesel engine in a Jeep. I´ll avoid that as long as I can. The 4.0 is such a great engine, can be converted to run on propane/LPG and you can add a 2nd fuel tank and some gerry cans for that long distance trips where no fuel can be bought.
COLOFIREMAN
Observer
Not to add fuel to the fire but why in the heck did Jeep never offer anything bu this engine in the XJ's and the Isuzu 6 Cyl in the CJ's??? And then never since the 80's has there been a opition except the newer KJ's:exclaim:
I just wish they would understand the 2.5 VM diesel that was offered in the KJ Liberty's would have sold like warm hot cakes on a cold morning if they had put it a TJ:exclaim:
:bigbossHL: The answer is BIG OIL in bed with BIG GOVERNMENT:exclaim:
Ok I'll get off the soap box and drink some de-caf.
I just wish they would understand the 2.5 VM diesel that was offered in the KJ Liberty's would have sold like warm hot cakes on a cold morning if they had put it a TJ:exclaim:
:bigbossHL: The answer is BIG OIL in bed with BIG GOVERNMENT:exclaim:
Ok I'll get off the soap box and drink some de-caf.
Black Dog
Makin' Beer.
Technically if that was the answer then all we would see is diesels. Diesel fuel is high in petroleum than regular unleaded (correct me if I'm wrong) so that means that when you buy 20 gallons of fuel you are actually buying more oil with diesel than with regular gas. So if BIG OIL was in bed with BIG GOVERNMENT then BIG GOVERNMENT would be pushing BIG AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY (which we citizens now mostly own) to produce more diesel engines.
The only hole in that logic is that a 4 cylinder diesel engine gets better mpg than a 4 cylinder unleaded engine. But I bet if you did the math, even though you can drive farther on a gallon of diesel by the time you drive the same distance with gasoline you might have used almost as much crude. Just a guess, not based on facts or anything.
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
Diesels = Meh
jeepdreamer
Expedition Leader
You want WHAT!?!
So what ever do you mean CF? What...You want a smaller Government? Hahaha...But then who would give out the free services to the non workers? Who would ensure you are put into a debt so large that your calculator can hardly show all the digits!?! And then who, while their poor decisions have caused a near collapse of all that was once a proud, thriving nation, would tax everyone to cover the debt while giving themselves a raise!?! Moahahaha!
Ok, sorry...now MY rant is over!
But in seriousness to Kc0tma:
As I understand the processing scale, diesel is LESS refined than gasoline...at least prior to all the required attempts to make fossil fuels "greener". The lion's share of the cost of diesel over gas is taxes. More specifically, Federal and local taxes levied as a stopgap to cause over the road transportation (trucking companies) to pay for roads and services. I believe that if diesel were taxed at the same rate as gas it would be down in the 20% cost of gas area...
And then lets not forget the potential of Biodiesel! Why on earth would a global corporation that bases its income on an often touted "limited" resource like a fossil fuel ever persue something that could eliminate them almost overnight? Not real good for buiseness to show people that there are better, cleaner, more efficent, more powerful ways to produce near limitless fuel for their transportation than the product they sell...
Just some food for thought!
So what ever do you mean CF? What...You want a smaller Government? Hahaha...But then who would give out the free services to the non workers? Who would ensure you are put into a debt so large that your calculator can hardly show all the digits!?! And then who, while their poor decisions have caused a near collapse of all that was once a proud, thriving nation, would tax everyone to cover the debt while giving themselves a raise!?! Moahahaha!
Ok, sorry...now MY rant is over!
But in seriousness to Kc0tma:
As I understand the processing scale, diesel is LESS refined than gasoline...at least prior to all the required attempts to make fossil fuels "greener". The lion's share of the cost of diesel over gas is taxes. More specifically, Federal and local taxes levied as a stopgap to cause over the road transportation (trucking companies) to pay for roads and services. I believe that if diesel were taxed at the same rate as gas it would be down in the 20% cost of gas area...
And then lets not forget the potential of Biodiesel! Why on earth would a global corporation that bases its income on an often touted "limited" resource like a fossil fuel ever persue something that could eliminate them almost overnight? Not real good for buiseness to show people that there are better, cleaner, more efficent, more powerful ways to produce near limitless fuel for their transportation than the product they sell...
Just some food for thought!
COLOFIREMAN
Observer
I don't have anything against the government now, it's going to be big all the time. I can't do anything about it except vote. I just wish the government would force the auto manufactures to offer more diesels in each line. The fact that auto manufactures for years have offered, because they are forced to, diesels in other countries. The USA gets none of them. This Cherokee is a great example of it. I would just like to have the a diesel opition if I wanted to buy a newer Cherokee. I have a 03' Grand Cherokee that has a high output 4.7 V8. But in Canada I found a same year CG with a factory 2.5 VM diesel in it????? Why there and not here??
As far as diesels using the same or more crude oil....
Once crude oil is extracted, it is sent to oil refineries for separation of the different components. The process of making diesel fuel can be categorized in three basic steps, namely, separation, conversion and purification. Separation of diesel fuel is done by performing fractional distillation of the crude oil mixture. In this method, crude oil is filled in a fractional distillation column, which is then subjected to a specific temperature.
The components of the crude oil mixture are separated according to their boiling temperatures. The compounds with low boiling points are present at the top of the column and those with higher boiling points are settled below. For example, propane gas and gasoline are distilled first, after which diesel fuel and lubricating oil are separated one after the other.
Diesel fuel is only one part of crude oil process and of that part it is only one fifth. It takes far more crude oil to make a gallon of standard gasoline then diesel.
Scientific facts aside, diesel engines produce less hydrocarbons, run cooler, require less upkeep, outlast the vehicle in most cases, and get overall better MPG. However, having said that, the price of a vehicle with a factory diesel engine are very overpriced and doesn't overshadow the above mentioned benefits. This was proven in the May 09' JP Mag when they did a 13,005 mile test. At the end of the long term test, the mileage per gallon saving didn't overcome the initial price with the blue tech diesel. One would have to own the Jeep for 8 years to break even.
As far as diesels using the same or more crude oil....
Once crude oil is extracted, it is sent to oil refineries for separation of the different components. The process of making diesel fuel can be categorized in three basic steps, namely, separation, conversion and purification. Separation of diesel fuel is done by performing fractional distillation of the crude oil mixture. In this method, crude oil is filled in a fractional distillation column, which is then subjected to a specific temperature.
The components of the crude oil mixture are separated according to their boiling temperatures. The compounds with low boiling points are present at the top of the column and those with higher boiling points are settled below. For example, propane gas and gasoline are distilled first, after which diesel fuel and lubricating oil are separated one after the other.
Diesel fuel is only one part of crude oil process and of that part it is only one fifth. It takes far more crude oil to make a gallon of standard gasoline then diesel.
Scientific facts aside, diesel engines produce less hydrocarbons, run cooler, require less upkeep, outlast the vehicle in most cases, and get overall better MPG. However, having said that, the price of a vehicle with a factory diesel engine are very overpriced and doesn't overshadow the above mentioned benefits. This was proven in the May 09' JP Mag when they did a 13,005 mile test. At the end of the long term test, the mileage per gallon saving didn't overcome the initial price with the blue tech diesel. One would have to own the Jeep for 8 years to break even.
"At the end of the long term test, the mileage per gallon saving didn't overcome the initial price with the blue tech diesel. One would have to own the Jeep for 8 years to break even."
But that is with the additional diesel taxes. The real answer is to remove the extra tax on diesel fuel.
Also, in a truly counter productive and contradictory manner, the Gov't, as ussual, is fighting diesel particulates as a "cause" (largely unsupported) of widespread illness, especially in children. That diesel engines use so much less hydrocarbon fuel seems lost on the Fed beuraucrats. How 'bout the new "piss bottles" (urea resevoirs) required in US diesels? What a crock!
We can see a similar counter productive and contradictory policy regarding CFC and HCFC refrigerants. Here is but one example: New Freon is outlawed, but it is still so much more efficient than the next best alternative that it: 1. reduces hydrocarbon use by large margins and 2. is the second most smuggled material into the US. (Ever notice how long it now takes a good size car or truck to get cool in the heat? Reason: approved refrigerants are nowhere near as effective or as efficient as Freon) (Freon is R-12, iirc, it has been a long time since I had the pleasure of buying or trading Freon.)
The US outlaws Freon while the rest of the world benefits from its efficiency... Our Gov't at "work." The Gov't would have done better simply taxing the hell out of it to deter venting and to promote system maintenance to prevent unintended releases.
JPK
But that is with the additional diesel taxes. The real answer is to remove the extra tax on diesel fuel.
Also, in a truly counter productive and contradictory manner, the Gov't, as ussual, is fighting diesel particulates as a "cause" (largely unsupported) of widespread illness, especially in children. That diesel engines use so much less hydrocarbon fuel seems lost on the Fed beuraucrats. How 'bout the new "piss bottles" (urea resevoirs) required in US diesels? What a crock!
We can see a similar counter productive and contradictory policy regarding CFC and HCFC refrigerants. Here is but one example: New Freon is outlawed, but it is still so much more efficient than the next best alternative that it: 1. reduces hydrocarbon use by large margins and 2. is the second most smuggled material into the US. (Ever notice how long it now takes a good size car or truck to get cool in the heat? Reason: approved refrigerants are nowhere near as effective or as efficient as Freon) (Freon is R-12, iirc, it has been a long time since I had the pleasure of buying or trading Freon.)
The US outlaws Freon while the rest of the world benefits from its efficiency... Our Gov't at "work." The Gov't would have done better simply taxing the hell out of it to deter venting and to promote system maintenance to prevent unintended releases.
JPK
COLOFIREMAN
Observer
I agree completely!!!!!
Add to that the run ability problems newer diesels are having now since they required that DPF!!! I have a friend that was able to successfully claim the lemon law due to the amount of times his 06' was in the shop for that. They told him he was allowing the engine to idle too long and wasn't getting the EGT's high enough to burn the excess particulates out????!!!
Let them do what they want......my 01' Dodge CTD and my 1988 Grand Wagneer with a soon-to-be Cummins 4BTA or the motor in this Cherokee would not be required to subscribe to that.