New trailer owner questions - Bantam 1946 trailer find (and buy).

[FAW3]

New to this section of Expo...mainly because until today I did not have a trailer. I stumbled across a oddly worded listing on Craigslist for an "old army trailer" earlier this week...and well...now I have one. Got it home and cleaned it up a bit. Title and name plate indicate a Bantam civilian model 3, serial in 4100 range, made in 1946. Has from what I've researched in last week: OEM Fulton hitch, split 16" wheels, no lights (or wires) - just a left side hole for a light. Looks like on either side are 4" spaced small holes for reflectors.

It towed nice today bringing it home...which leads me to a couple of questions, just to get me going safe and legal:

Tires if I read right are dated 2002; 6.00-16, 6 ply tube type. Minor exterior cracks...but they held air today. I was thinking an empty load air pressure of 25 pounds would be a good starting point? No markings on tire give an inflation recommendation. Help! I found nothing on the net as to local sources for this size tire...is this going to be a hard to find tire & tube when I go to replacements?

In towing behind my full size P/U and later "staged" behind our JK jeep...I am thinking the one tail light will be OK, as the tow vehicle taillights and center mount stop lights are fully visable due to low/narrow size. Also, I would be likely never towing at night. VA. law provides an exemption for old vehicles to just have a red brake light. Any thoughts on just use the one light?


I had about a 70 mile run bringing it home...speeds up to 60, stopping often to check hub temps, tires, and hitch. No issues at all...little thing tows like its not there (empty of course today), backing up is tricky because of the short hitch and small size...

My wife loves it! Says we need to get some hay for Halloween and drive the kids around the neighborhood in it!

 

[Mark Harley]

We need pictures!

I would go with two taillights.
Remember there are a whole lot of teen texting, makeup applying, drink sipping, food eating drivers out there!
The more visible the better. They they can't say "I did not see his brake light"

Time for matching wheels and paint. Keep us posted on the build!

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Agreed, I would never drive with just a single rear light. Install these and call it good http://www.harborfreight.com/led-trailer-light-kit-95974.html I have installed them on 3 trailers with great results for the price. And if a 15in wheel fits over the brakes I would go this route, tire options increase and prices decrease.

 

[TacoDell]

New to this section of Expo...mainly because until today I did not have a trailer. I stumbled across a oddly worded listing on Craigslist for an "old army trailer" earlier this week...and well...now I have one. Got it home and cleaned it up a bit. Title and name plate indicate a Bantam civilian model 3, serial in 4100 range, made in 1946. Has from what I've researched in last week: OEM Fulton hitch, split 16" wheels, no lights (or wires) - just a left side hole for a light. Looks like on either side are 4" spaced small holes for reflectors.

It towed nice today bringing it home...which leads me to a couple of questions, just to get me going safe and legal:

Tires if I read right are dated 2002; 6.00-16, 6 ply tube type. Minor exterior cracks...but they held air today. I was thinking an empty load air pressure of 25 pounds would be a good starting point? No markings on tire give an inflation recommendation. Help! I found nothing on the net as to local sources for this size tire...is this going to be a hard to find tire & tube when I go to replacements?

In towing behind my full size P/U and later "staged" behind our JK jeep...I am thinking the one tail light will be OK, as the tow vehicle taillights and center mount stop lights are fully visable due to low/narrow size. Also, I would be likely never towing at night. VA. law provides an exemption for old vehicles to just have a red brake light. Any thoughts on just use the one light?


I had about a 70 mile run bringing it home...speeds up to 60, stopping often to check hub temps, tires, and hitch. No issues at all...little thing tows like its not there (empty of course today), backing up is tricky because of the short hitch and small size...

My wife loves it! Says we need to get some hay for Halloween and drive the kids around the neighborhood in it!

sweet find... and congratulation on that... but where's the pictures ?

those "split wheels" are likely the combat wheels...
highly prized and sought after... meaning... they have some historical value
^ sell those... and they would likely absorb your current purchase cost and some.

I'm purdy sure that all of the WWII/Civy trailers came with dual brake lights
so the law would likely not agree with a single rear brake light out back

I run my 7.00 X 16's at right around 24 psi when on the roadway.
Varies somewhat dependent on load's weight.
If seriously heavy... I'd bump the psi up a few more.

off road... I usually air down to next to nothing
sooo.... that the tire will conform better and offer some floatation
I usually leave 3 or 4 psi in them... just to make myself feel better.

most early military trailers were originally fitted with 4 ply rated tires... (but I'm not sure for the civy trailers)
the 6 ply will likely conform less well, when aired down, off road.
Better for carrying a heavier load... but I think they ride too stiff... JMO

My oem goodyear ndcc's (original) also have a little checking on one side of the tire(s)... likely UV/sun damage

I hope to soon replace those with newly designed firestone ndcc
But so far... these tires have made two trips fm SoCal to Moab and back.
wheeled a few moderate/difficult trails...
and the checking on mine has not been of issue... nor does it seem to be worsening.
These are a tubed tire... so I feel a little more secure with that fact.

Sooo... what's the plans for 'er ?

 

[FAW3]

A quick photo...and today DMV!

Here is a quick photo. After work heading for the dreaded trip to DMV for tag and new title...thank goodness this came with a title from the PO!

Found I had one spare boat trailer LED light in my parts box that fits the existing mounting holes "good enough". I rewired the trailer last night with new cable and loom, I'll quick rig this one light for now, I ran the wiring to support two lights in rear for both sides. Decide on final light rigging as I get further along in my plans.

Once I get the tag up I'll be road worthy...at least for short trips around town.

Have some minor rust spots & a slow leak in one tube/valve. For now I'll start with general sanding, cleaning and inspecting and dealing with those issues.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Keep in mind that the amp draw is different between a standard bulb and LED.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

Nice find! Looks to be in pretty good shape too for its age. x3 on the 2 tail lights, I have 2 now and while they work, they are DIM. I am swapping them for a set of Grote LED Military ones off of E-Bay.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380364442063

Looks stock, work great (I am told, I pick mine up from Tacoma this weekend) and they are CHEAP. Oh and old tires, might want to replace them if they are old and cracking. That or get a spare.

 

[Robert Bills]

New to this section of Expo...mainly because until today I did not have a trailer. ...now I have one. . . . Title and name plate indicate a Bantam civilian model 3, serial in 4100 range, made in 1946. Has from what I've researched in last week: OEM Fulton hitch, split 16" wheels, no lights (or wires) - just a left side hole for a light. Looks like on either side are 4" spaced small holes for reflectors.

It towed nice today bringing it home...which leads me to a couple of questions, just to get me going safe and legal:

Tires if I read right are dated 2002; 6.00-16, 6 ply tube type. Minor exterior cracks...but they held air today. I was thinking an empty load air pressure of 25 pounds would be a good starting point? No markings on tire give an inflation recommendation. Help! I found nothing on the net as to local sources for this size tire...is this going to be a hard to find tire & tube when I go to replacements?

...I am thinking the one tail light will be OK, . . . . Any thoughts on just use the one light?

You appear to have a complete, nearly all original Bantam T3-C. Congratulations! It is a rare find.

Bantam civilian trailers were shipped from the factory with one tail light (Arrow Model 41). During the 1940s only one tail light was required for passenger cars and trailers. The original tail light for your trailer looks like this:



The original Arrow lights are extremely difficult to find. If you have one you should preserve it or sell it to a collector who will appreciate it. Whatever you do, don't throw it (or any other original part) away. Even a rotten original wiring loom has value to a collector.


It appears that a previous owner modified the rear tub supports. Originally they looked like this:




Except for some very early versions built from leftover military parts, Bantam civilian trailers were shipped with Kelsey Hayes 16" 4 1/2" wide "solid" wheels. These are the same wheels used by Willys for the CJ-2A and CJ-3 jeeps. The very early T3-C trailers were shipped with military combat rims, which are what you have. Although combat rims are desirable for a collector, most tire shops today have no idea how to work with them and will refuse. So unless you are prepared to do your own tire work, you should probably look for a pair of correct CJ-2/CJ-3 wheels and sell your combat rims to a military collector on www.G503.com.


Also, the very early Bantam trailers were shipped with 6.00x16 military NDT tires (non-directional tread). These are available from many sources including Coker Tire, Lucas Automotive Engineering and many farm and tractor supply outlets. You can still get Firestones, but less expensive and perfectly acceptable brands are Denham and STA. However, a better choice would be a 6.50x16 NDCC military tire and tube (non-directional cross country tread), which is the size used on the Korean era M100 and Viet Nam era M-416 trailers. That is what I run on my '46 T3-C. I have never had a problem getting replacement tubes (which I have never needed to fix a flat, but replaced in my spare parts box simply because I want fresh tubes in case I need one on the trail.)


If you search the Internet, you can find downloadable military service manuals for the MBT/T3 and the M100. The proper tire pressure for both the 6.00x16 and 6.50x16 tire on a 1/4 ton trailer is 25psi.


There are several websites devoted to the Bantam trailer, including: http://bantamt3c.com,
http://bantamt3c.com/images/hubbard/Pages/Bantam.html, and
http://www.jeepdraw.com/Trailer.html.


There is a military 1/4 ton trailer forum at www.G503.com that can be a great source for technical support.




Although I have strong feelings about maintaining the integrity of a complete, original Bantam civilian trailer because they are becoming extremely rare, a Bantam trailer is little more than a lawn ornament if it isn't used. There are many modifications you can make to make yours more useful on the trail while still maintaining the ability to return it to stock. Check out the link to photos of my trailer below my signature for some ideas. Whatever you you, please don't succumb to the well-meaning advice of those who don't truly appreciate the history of what you have to cut and weld or otherwise destroy its originality. If those serious modifications are needed, an M-416 or something else less rare than a T3-C might be a better candidate.

Have fun!!!

 

[FAW3]

Thanks Robert for all the information! I will be checking those sites you mentioned, to date I've spent most of my time on the Bantam3c site...mainly to confirm what I had.

DMV went well...got my new title & VA. permanent trailer tag (they offer one the same size as a motorcycle tag - good for trailers under 4k rating) - you pay $70 once and it's good as long as I live. Gotta love VA...registration prices in some states are just plain crazy!!!

I'm getting into some "technical stuff" now as I go over the trailer:

1: I checked the bearings and they move/feel/sound great...were well greased so I just closed them up...with the 70 mile trip made on purchase day and them not getting even warm...I'm not going to spend any time with them this year.

2: One tire still at pressure, one tire going down...tested the air loser valve area on a hunch with soapy water and at least one leak is from the rubber casing around the valve stem. Looks like a new tube is in order, and since I'm buying one, might as well do both and keep the old good one as a spare. I've started reading about these split rims and there is no mention of being able to tire iron the tire off "the modern way" without splitting 'em...every thing I find says you have to split the rims...anyone who can confirm that one way or the other ?

3: At purchase the bed was covered with a wooden platform that fitted so tight I could not raise it...i knew I had rust holes in the front area from looking under the trailer...but today I got the deck covering up and I am looking at enough "air" through the floor panel to steer me toward replacing the floor rather than patching it. I'm got a quote on a replacement floor from a Bantam part source...but they are out of stock until Jan. I think for now I am just going to clean everything up...undercoat both sides of the pan and use the wooden floor for a while until I am ready to redo it completly, perhaps next spring/summer. The good news is that the frame, springs, axle and the other major components are in good shape, no cracks or missing components.

4: The green paint is a slop job from the PO, drips/runs and orangepeeling everywhere. I plan to sand it down and repaint...since we have a white JK with a black cloth top...the family vote is: gloss black hitch & frame; white exterior gloss tub; silver wheels; semi-gloss interior tub in black.

 

[Robert Bills]

Yes, you must split combat rims to change a tire. That's why most tire shops today won't touch them.

Since both combat rims and Kelsey Hayes 16" jeep rims are correct for Bantam trailers, you might consider selling your combat rims to a collector or keeping them in case you want to do a true restoration at a future date. In any event, hang on to what you have until you find a proper replacement - combat rims are only going up in price.

 

[FAW3]

Well today I invested some time/effort toward my new trailer and targeted two areas:

First, getting ready for a repainting. In light of the military background of this type of trailer...I "drafted" my 12yo son got him rigged with a full face respirator (which he thought was neat as hell) and a power sander. Got about 2 hours out of him and then I continued doing some sanding. I had two areas at the front of the tub where a seam had split a bit...so I welded that item off my list.

Second: I have one tire that looses air...so I went to "war" with that combat rim. Now I see another reason they call those WW-2 guys and gals "the greatest generation" - this was some real work. I was lucky that there was no bead lock/rim lock just set up with a tube (which had gone bad). I soaked the wheel with PB Blaster several times over the last couple of days near the rim nuts and and soaked the tire rim/bead area seam with WD40. Working with two crowbars finally got one side of the tire down enough on the rim for me to just squeeze in a nice wide & flat bit on my impact hammer in to the rim seam...and that opened up the seam and they separated. Replacing the tube and the reassembly was about as easy as a tube switch on my KLR. I sanded and painted the wheel rim faces and used some anti-seize...hopefully if I ever do this again they will part ways easier.

As a novice here is an opinion, and offered on that basis: if this type & size combat rims are really stuck rusted together...I see no easy way to externally "force" the rims apart (absent special tools and such) based on how they nest together. Getting wild with hammers and tire irons/crowbars likely will only end up damaging the rim and increase the risk of injury. Based on what worked for me today...I think the safest way to do this yourself is just deflate tire, remove tube valve core, remove 4 alternating rim nuts and loosen the remaining 4 to the point the nut is backed off but still fully threaded. Try #1, forcing one side of tire down enough with bars, or driving a car tire over edge of tire to expose the middle rim seam. If no joy, then Try #2 is I would cut the tire across the body of the tire with a sawsall in 4 or so spaced places and then use an impact hammer with a shallow flat bit the separate the rims by spreading them from the center seam which you can find by feel. A solid rim/bead lock would make either much harder...you'll have to decide if damaging/destroying the rim/bead lock outweighs the risk of damage to wheel. Sand and paint the facing surfaces and use a lube (anti-seize or light grease coating), mount a new tube, new tire and your good to go with undamaged combat rims.

I've decided to focus on work that will preserve the trailer in a conditon as close to OEM as I can. I'm going to fill in some holes that are not OEM and then I'll be painting it in a diffrent color scheme, but not changing any major components. I think my results will be a decent looking neat little trailer that will be a lot of fun...not a bad legacy after all! I'll get some more photos up soon.

 

[FAW3]

Stage 1 complete

Progress is made: now fully road ready, legal and painted up nice I think. I still have the floor rust issues to redo...but the trailer now moves back to second stage as I found a roof leak at our house...but I guess I can haul roofing supplies in style now...the floor issues will perhaps be a winter welding project? For now the wood floor from the PO is back in and will work short term.

I filled in all the extra holes in the tailgate (for old tags) and body (for old hacked on running lights) and found a nice waterproof LED round light that fit the single light hole perfectly. Works as a running, left turn and brake light. Also mounted two red reflectors that are similar to what I saw on other Bantams. I am not planning any major mods.

I've made a dump run this past weekend and it tows like it's not even back there...and in fact, unless something is sticking up...you can't see it at all from side or rear view mirror!

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[Robert Bills]

Looking good. Enjoy it!!

 

[TacoDell]

and it tows like it's not even back there...and in fact, unless something is sticking up...you can't see it at all from side or rear view mirror!

you could...

buy some of those magnetic telescoping visual aide thingy's

or... you do the spring over axle modification...

or... you can fabricate a locking metal lid and put a RTT on it

there's lots of things that can be done
to make it more visual when backing

I improved upon my M100 with little compromise to it's originality/integrity...
and it's fairly function as a trail/camp rig.

Mine has an RTT on it... so's I see it just fine

if you haven't checked out my M100 build...
it might be a great time for you to take a look

there may be some ideas in my build...
that might be helpful to U

Look forward to seeing where you go with this awesome trailer !?

 

[FAW3]

I have admired quite a few trailer rigs on this site recently...and the concept of a roof top tent is a winner with me...I could easily make up a top for the little trailer and mount the RTT on it...make it removable and all.

The reality is about 20+ years ago my then pre-wife and I went camping...and when she used a big safety pin to "lock" the three zippers that made the "door" on the tent...I knew that wilderness "tent" style camping was unlikely to be a major fixture in "our" lives.

So, I have adapted..."I" camp off my KLR solo and "we" for many years have RV'ed in our 85 BlueBird bus...it must work...our 20th anniversary is Thursday!!!!

Thanks again for all the suggestions and guideance!